Terrorattack in Norway's capital, Oslo.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I don't know whether it is malice or ignorance, but I've repeatedly said not to go offtopic. don't try to push the limit.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Terrorism only works on those who are afraid.

It takes courage to stand up to the terrorist.

The Norwegians are clearly showing they will not be cowed into changing their country or the open liberal democratic politics of their country by terrrorism. They stood up to the Nazis in World War II and they are standing up to the same terrorism now.

Well done Norway I say.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 26, 2011 by walker

[dmarkwick 261]

This rally points out one of the many things that sows the mistrust of muslims in the U.S and Europe.

- Al-qaeda attacks US and kills 3000 people.

No mass rallys by "moderate" muslims.

- Al-queda bombs buses and subway in London killing 52 people.

No mass rally "moderate" muslims.

The silence whenever muslim radicals do these things is deafening.

but a Norwegian sets off a bomb and shoots 80+ people, Norwegians

hold a rally in which 100,000 people show up.

Show some dignity and sensitivity fella. This thread is about the terrible happenings in Norway, not a mouthpeice for your obvious leanings. If ignorance is bliss you're the happiest guy in this thread.

Back OT... (and I apologise for my minor rant...) I'd like to register my despair at this terrible happening. I try not to follow the news etc any more but some things get under the radar. The important things. I am confident in Norway's resilience to these happenings and hope them all the best in coping with it all. Especially in the face of ignorant, narcissistic rage perpetuated in the criminal, and nurtured in other ignorant people. God bless.

Edited July 26, 2011 by DMarkwick

[PELHAM 10]

Latest news is they are going to charge him with crimes against humanity which will see a sentence of at least 30yrs. I'm not sure if he planned for that. He will spend all of it in isolation. No doubt he will write a sequel, they can shred it on his last day? lol

After the news report about the Norway gunner's terrorist activity, he admit that he's an enthusiastic of the video games, especially Call of Duty and War of Warcrafts. "The stage" for his "show" is to giving impact to both universal players and the video game industry, and he DIRECTLY giving messages about the video game violence chained with the tragic action.

Did he really say this or is it the usual press fall back after such an event? It's always violent films or video games that are to blame.

They never take into account bad parenting, birth defects, abuse, poor schooling, habitual drug use, weird eyes that give people the creeps (he does, doesn't he?), eating too many M&Ms, not eating your vegetables when your Mom tells you to etc.

Maybe they should ask us security questions like they do at airports? When you buy Arma 3 they could say, "Excuse me Sir, are you a terrorist or dangerous loner with homicidal tendencies?". You can then say, "No".

It would work because all terrorists and nut cases always answer "yes" to those questions, don't they?

[Jelliz 10]

AFAIK, the quote about Call of duty and WOW has barely gotten any mention in Norwegian newspapers. It hasnt been a topic for discussion yet.

Though, we dont know if it will come up at a later point.

EDIT: To clarify, he did mention it in his manifesto and it has been quoted as part of other articles. But as of yet, it has not been discussed or given any headlines.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Jelliz

[dysta 10]

AFAIK, the quote about Call of duty and WOW has barely gotten any mention in Norwegian newspapers. It hasnt been a topic for discussion yet.

Strange, that unconfirmed news is still spreading all around the internet forums, even in my place as well. They're just either doubting it or really believe that guy is actually a game freak or something. Can someone confirm where it's this information from?

[-)rStrangelove 0]

In medieval times it was being possessed by the devil, nowadays its playing FPS. Oh well.

[Jelliz 10]

Strange, that unconfirmed news is still spreading all around the internet forums, even in my place as well. They're just either doubting it or really believe that guy is actually a game freak or something. Can someone confirm where it's this information from?

To clarify, it has not been any discussions/debate about it in the norwegian media yet as i know of(And i have been quite a news junkie the past few days).

There has been small mentions of it in other articles about him though, though usually not more than 3-4 sentences.

It is confirmed however, it says so in his manifesto that he has played modern warfare for "training" purposes, and for fun. And some WoW.

What is being discussed in other internet forums about it im not sure of, as i am not very active in other forums besides this.

[celery 8]

)rStrangelove;1990231']Ever heard of outsourcing? Thats what your industry is doing right now in your country too. In a global market you compete with everyone on the planet anyway' date=' not just those ppl in your country. Immigrants make it just more obvious to you and maybe thats why you feel this way. But send them home and they just take the same (outsourced) jobs anyway. If you cant find a job with the salery that you demand, another guy will take it - it doesnt matter in what country.[/quote']

I don't think you understand what I was talking about. I was talking about people who are imported for non-work related reasons and who mostly have a very narrow chance of getting employed at all. Even if it was outsourcing in some perverse way, that's not what my country needs when unemployment among young adults is unbearable. Even the simplest and most menial jobs get hundreds of applications, the better ones get thousands.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Celery

[mrcash2009 0]

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_18542273?source=rss

The man accused of the killing spree in Norway was deeply influenced by a small group of U.S. bloggers and writers

So ... his manifesto seems to cover all aspects of general internet shenanigans IE blogging thoughts and ideas & gaming, also not being Muslim, looking at military orders, anything to do with a thought that is deemed "extreme" at a time in the world where allot of people are pissed off for all manner of reasons (that dont think about doing crap he did) ... so in effect his "Manifesto" is some kind of now well publicised blue print for authorities to use as a profiling tool, he never topped himself, and now is the biggest advert and scape goat example to use as a measuring stick.

I didn't see the "world" go into overdrive with school shootings years ago, also things like the chap with explosive underpants, that one "non event" = xrays for all and virtual strip searches almost world wide, one man, one thing and the entire world needs to be "looked into".

Hmmm, sorry but this is all looking a bit fishy to me now (my view of course).

Edited July 26, 2011 by mrcash2009

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Looking back on the events now i think reporting about that manifest in the press was a very bad idea. Many idiots around in the world and someone is bound to get new ideas from it.

[mrcash2009 0]

Looking back on the events now i think reporting about that manifest in the press was a very bad idea.

Which makes me wonder a little more about this manifesto and its oh so well publicised views.

Many idiots around in the world and someone is bound to get new ideas from it.

But then maybe that being the idea, its a perfect profiling tool, so watch out gamers/bloggers, free thinkers, non Muslims, outspoken humans & so on.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

What i don't get is:

- they (police, secret service, whatever) read in his manifest that he plans to use the events following his act as a plattform to spread his ideas into the world.

- they keep him isolated from the public while being in court to twart his 'info-campaign' attempts.

- they fail to keep this manifest from being published in the press

Now which is more dangerous to an open-minded Europe - pictures of somebody being taken to court or his manifest being spread?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

)rStrangelove;1990429']Looking back on the events now i think reporting about that manifest in the press was a very bad idea. Many idiots around in the world and someone is bound to get new ideas from it.

If you read it (I read the tech stuff and the diary' date=' the first two parts or so became too [i']boring[/i]), you would know it wouldn't serve a purpose. He spent quite some effort farming good and valid email addresses on facebook (around 5700 iirc) to whom the manifest was being sent to. It would reach the general public very quickly, and the press knows it, so there is no point in even trying to hide it. If they did, that would be subject to criticism too.

Although the manifest could possibly help fuel an already existing ideology in an individual, I really don't see how it could initiate it. But I will have to read up more on the fist two parts, however, I have better things to do...

[PELHAM 10]

)rStrangelove;1990441']What i don't get is:

- they fail to keep this manifest from being published in the press

Now which is more dangerous to an open-minded Europe - pictures of somebody being taken to court or his manifest being spread?

It's not a good idea stop the flow of ideas/information or we get back into the realms of censorship and thought police and inquisitions which everyone dislikes.

Impressionable, antisocial misfits who are influenced by what other people write will always be with us. The best solution is not to censor everything but to reach out to these people and put them on the right track in the first place.

Think back to your school days. Every school in every town has a misfit. Someone with a bad family background or slight imbalance or some oddity that sets them apart and keeps them friendless.

I think back and you could have picked out these people or the future drug addicts, criminals etc. Everyone just ignores the problem or makes it worse. When I hear about people I went to school with ending up dead or in jail - I'm usually not surprised.

Anders Behring Breivik probably had identifiable problems from his early teens. What did his parents do? Did his teachers ignore the problem? Who bullied him? etc.

That last one is important - many who turn violent or have an extreme interest in guns later in life were picked on at school and I bet my left nad Anders had problems like that. Every other mass killer has. It's not ideas alone that trigger these people - societal dysfunction creates them.

I occasionally see our school misfit wondering alone, wearing a combat jacket and a mad expression behind jam-jar glasses, thank goodness he is always on foot and I am in the car!

There were opportunities to do something for that guy but his parents were busy with other things, kids were cruel and the school authorities had other priorities. If he goes postal and kills someone one day I could name most of those who played a part in setting him on that course.

[demonized 20]

just to clarify a few things.

He used dum dum ammunition, wich expands once in the flesh doing massive damage spreading fragments inside the body.

These bullets are even banned/not used in militarys all over the world because of the major damages that could be caused to civilians.

Dum Dum bullets are used in big game hunting and comes in small and large calibers.

He did not target foreigners or those of colored skin in the Utøya masacre.

He killed indiscriminately.

His targets were all current and possible future party members, his primary target was an old party-leader/icon of that party, Gro Harlem Bruntland wich was to hold a opening debate there that day.

He got delayed in Oslo at the bombing and thus Gro finnished her apareance and left the island before he arrived at Utøya.

The gaming references in his maifest was purely as recreational "conditioning" in his freetime, and part of his tactics of "beeing to busy" to meet friends, combined with the "busy farm season" scam he had.

This has not had any noteworthy focus in our media at all.

At best it is being used by media to show/ridicule the idiot and show his lack of reality sence in the very few instances this occurs.

I saw today that Google will start to make the extremist posts like the manifest and any other extremist related material appear further down on the "hit pages" when searching, not sencoring it, but just putting it down on listings making it more difficult to find.

Edit: When references to drugs are made, the only one i know the media has reported is his use of anabolic stereoids to up his strenght, resolve and his agression for the attack.

**************

Police report today that there was almost 200 000 people in Oslo centrum marking this event last night.

Our political partys announced in a press conferance that they would abstain from any campaigning for a period until announced to keep the focus on the matter and not being used tasteless in any way.

Disregarding the imo "tasteless" politics campaigning for the upcoming election done by the AUF(youth party) leader and also our prime ministers "more consealed" campaigning.

The event was one of the most powerful things i have ever seen.

The true spirit of Norway was displayed in all its glory.

Also similar events was held all over the country, torch marches, candles and flowers all over.

Looking at it from out of the box:

The idiot did a miscalculation in his strategy, since the camp at Utøya consisted of youths from all over the country, he effectively rallied ALL our countrys men and women personally in this matter.

Not saying we would have cared less if all the dead was from the same city/region.

But now, 1 person from my region is still missing, go to next city they have several losses from theirs, and next same, and so on.

Dead youths origin stretch from the very south to furthest north.

Having it so close strenghtens the personal commitment of any people, distribute it so evenly all over the country and you get a "bad combination" for the idiots "cause" favour.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Demonized

[celery 8]

Anders Behring Breivik probably had identifiable problems from his early teens. What did his parents do? Did his teachers ignore the problem? Who bullied him? etc.

That last one is important - many who turn violent or have an extreme interest in guns later in life were picked on at school and I bet my left nad Anders had problems like that. Every other mass killer has. It's not ideas alone that trigger these people - societal dysfunction creates them.

You can read about his personal life with no guessing here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik#Personal_life

Edited July 26, 2011 by Celery

[-)rStrangelove 0]

It's not a good idea stop the flow of ideas/information or we get back into the realms of censorship and thought police and inquisitions which everyone dislikes.

If there's a manifest telling you how to get chemicals in legal ways so you not raise suspicion and how to build a bomb with that stuff - then i think you're wrong.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@Demonized: I'm wondering if the bullets were more than dum dums. Take a look at the 5th last picture, and the process of creation was also described in the manifest.

He killed indiscriminately.

Actually, he did spare a few. Like the 11 yo kid who begged for his life just having lost is father.

Source. Heading would in eglish read "You already killed my dad, I'm too young to die".

)rStrangelove;1990541']If there's a manifest telling you how to get chemicals in legal ways so you not raise suspicion and how to build a bomb with that stuff - then i think you're wrong.

I don't know. For those wanting to build a bomb, that information is already widely available. The manifest itself contains lots of links, even youtube videos for some of the chemistry involved. It's not so much "how to obtain military detonation caps" as much as it is "how to make your own from pretty much normal household and chemistry items" that wouldn't normally raise any eyebrows (like aspirin).

Edited July 26, 2011 by CarlGustaffa

[mrcash2009 0]

It's not a good idea stop the flow of ideas/information or we get back into the realms of censorship and thought police and inquisitions which everyone dislikes.

Arent we already heading that way? Id imagine becuase of this event this is exactly what will happen, and by letting this information flow.

[st_dux 26]

)rStrangelove;1990541']If there's a manifest telling you how to get chemicals in legal ways so you not raise suspicion and how to build a bomb with that stuff - then i think you're wrong.

No, Pelham is right. You can't hide this information from people anyway; to think that you can actually prevent maniacs from conducting bombings by attempting to suppress information on how to build them is daft at best (particularly now in the age of the internet). All you get with censorship is a hindrance to the free flow of ideas that would lead to a better understanding for all. Censorship is borne out of fear, not rationality, and it never has any benefits to society at large.

Edited July 26, 2011 by ST_Dux

[Baff1 0]

Strange, that unconfirmed news is still spreading all around the internet forums, even in my place as well. They're just either doubting it or really believe that guy is actually a game freak or something. Can someone confirm where it's this information from?

Apparently his WoW character is named "Conservatism".

[PELHAM 10]

)rStrangelove;1990541']If there's a manifest telling you how to get chemicals in legal ways so you not raise suspicion and how to build a bomb with that stuff - then i think you're wrong.

Anyone with half a brain doesn't need those instructions in the first place. If you had censored every written text in the world this guy would have found a way. The levels of determination and persistence involved are quite staggering.

At university I actually asked to move because the idiot across the hall spent every free moment building home made detonators and blowing up small objects in his room! The web was in it's infancy and he just got what he wanted using common sense and reading the labels on house hold products.

@Celery

Thanks for the wiki link - I guess I was wrong about the bullying (as far as we know) - this looks more like something to do with his family background.

Edited July 26, 2011 by PELHAM

[Beagle 684]

@Demonized: I'm wondering if the bullets were more I don't know. For those wanting to build a bomb, that information is already widely available. The manifest itself contains lots of links, even youtube videos for some of the chemistry involved. It's not so much "how to obtain military detonation caps" as much as it is "how to make your own from pretty much normal household and chemistry items" that wouldn't normally raise any eyebrows (like aspirin).

Back in the days when terror was no topic we made anything you need for bombs in school....we called them rockets.

You can do bad things with just the usual nitrates and alkali-metals you used for high school experiments...yoz just have to raise the quantity from grams to kilos.

Explosives where made in the middle ages, nitro- explosives where invented in the 18. Century. Al of this is no arcane or obscure at anymore...everone able to READ A FUCKING BOOK can learn about it.

It's only the internet where is is harder nowadays to get such infos.

[maturin 12]

My father spent his entire childhood making pipe bombs and incendiary devices, even chlorine gas and some nitroglycerin-like substance. He and his friends wrote a letter to NASA asking for materials and they got some.

My friend's friend did the same thing, making pipe bomb fireworks. Then the police raided his house and he spent a year of his life in legal limbo.