Tanks/vehicle not afraid to drive in trees

[victim913 10]

Vehicles should go wherever you tell them to. If you want to have a tank knock down a whole forest then they should be able to do it. Even small offroad vehicles (who could easily go through the forest) won't go. It is insane.

I don't see real life army drivers say " oh no, those trees are 20 feet apart. I won't drive through that" when commander tells them to. Even when trees give plenty of drive room.

I was trying to get a good tank on tank mission using Proving Grounds and it is very difficult. Tanks won't drive over fallen trees and won't drive through even simple tree rows. Chernarus was easier to see. Forest was everywhere and should be difficult to drive through. But Proving Grounds? There are very few places a tank wouldn't want to drive through. But the trees on proving grounds are in lines/rows that are 1 tree deep. There are parts where one tree is 30 meters from the next tree and NO vehicle will drive between them. And again, fallen trees????? my civilian, piece of crap car can drive over them. But not in Arma.

Anyone test it. Put tanks anywhere and give them straight waypoints through easy tree areas. Half of the time they won't go through.

It's one thing to give a waypoint thats a good distance away allowing the tank to figure out which way is best. But put a waypoint 20 or 30 meters away (so that you are clearly telling it to go through) and watch your tank get to the first waypoint, then drive all the way back to the road then drive all the way back to the second waypoint that was 30 meters away from the last one.

IDEA: Why not set the waypoint behavior dictate the path. Careless=they drive where they want. Combat=they drive almost exactly where you tell them. Stealth=they go EXACTLY where you tell them.

Fixing it probably means that you need to fix your collision values so that a tank doesn't bounce 30 feet in the air when driving over a tree.

I'm sure others can understand what I am talking about.

Thanks.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Driving through trees really slows them down. It might not be accurate, but they probably take that into account when pathfinding. I have definately seen AI drive through trees/fences, so I know they don't avoid them at all costs.

[metalcraze 290]

AI tanks definitely have no problem driving through obstacles they can knock down when in combat.

Unless it's a forest of course where tanks will be slow and their ammunition will hit trees - which is logical. Besides why would your tanks be in a forest?

[Beagle 684]

AI tanks definitely have no problem driving through obstacles they can knock down when in combat.

Unless it's a forest of course where tanks will be slow and their ammunition will hit trees - which is logical. Besides why would your tanks be in a forest?

In RL there are good reasons for tanks in forests, but unfortunately in A2 this does not work. Btw tanks have a very good chance to get stuck in forrest RL.

A forest of 100-200 years old Beechs (not uncommon in central europe) will stop any MBT.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Beagle

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Forests are a big obstruction to tank warfare and vehicles in general. Much more so than portrayed in the game. Tanks don't create pathways through forests, they call in the engineers. So as annoying as it is, I think AI better reflects what vehicles in forests are about than human players do. In OFP we could even get stuck, which was a better simulation, but I guess too annoying for most (yes, including me :)).

There is lots of traction related issues on tracked vehicles that aren't too well simulated in the game. Like

being something you don't ignore. So where tanks actually get stuck in real life needing rescue, why should we worry about being slowed down by a forest?

Pathfinding is about finding a route where you avoid obstacles. Can't say I'm too happy about all their solutions at times, but I wouldn't like to see it gone because the convenience factor suffers.

[Daniel 0]

The OP's point is that tanks shouldn't really struggle somewhere like Proving Grounds. There's no forest - just lots of ground clutter. You could argue that even fallen trees wouldn't do a tank much good, but for the sake of gameplay...

amirite?

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess Proving Grounds is just a bit too bumpy and obstacle rich for an great AI drive-through/offroad course. Just take another terrain/island/map for AI tank battles. Easier for you and easier for AI. ;)

[Beagle 684]

Guess Proving Grounds is just a bit too bumpy and obstacle rich for an great AI drive-through/offroad course. Just take another terrain/island/map for AI tank battles. Easier for you and easier for AI. ;)

Yes. proving grounds is more a demonstation of high detail terrain...A.I. will get stuck on lots of places there offroad. Utes and Chernarus work much better.

The area from Lopatino to Stary Sobor and from Vyshnoye to Grishino in the south and north is typical MBT-land.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Beagle

[metalcraze 290]

Proving Grounds isn't even a good map to begin with.

It's just a random cluttered space with a lot of bumps. And is very small.

Chernarus doesn't lack detail at all actually and looks like a proper IRL location and yet tanks don't have problems there.

One time I set up a random battle in some eastern village by the sea in the editor - and tanks had no problem manoeuvering in between buildings (and I'm actually talking about yards, not roads) although of course knocking down one or two fences in a process.

[Daniel 0]

Proving Grounds isn't even a good map to begin with.

It's just a random cluttered space with a lot of bumps. And is very small.

That's not really fair, it's perfect if you only need a small map but with lots of micro terrain and a shit ton of atmosphere. I've had some excellent firefights there, against enemy armour too (although i was too busy trying to not get shot to notice any path-finding issues).

If anything it could be the higher terrain resolution causing problems.

[metalcraze 290]

If anything it could be the higher terrain resolution causing problems.

May be the most likely cause yes

[gossamersolid 155]

In RL there are good reasons for tanks in forests, but unfortunately in A2 this does not work. Btw tanks have a very good chance to get stuck in forrest RL.

A forest of 100-200 years old Beechs (not uncommon in central europe) will stop any MBT.

Right, but ArmA 3 isn't based on Central Europe, it's based around a Greek island.

Plus, that's what flamethrowers and satchel charges are for :D

[Archosaurusrev 12]

I agree with Proving Grounds being total bullshit to drive through.

Here's a tip, download the Everon (Not Everon 2010.) map and put a MBT anywhere, 9/10 the AI performs extremely well there.

[Nads 10]

Forests are a real issue for tanks, also if you look at the way it's done in Steel Beasts pro which is the definitive and only modern tank sim, forests=disaster. Try taking your platoon through one and apart from the obligatory RPG toting grunt you will lose several vehicles to breakdowns with broken and damaged tracks etc, and if you do actually manage to get through one it's as slow as hell, like REALLY slow and even though you can still drive your tank you will almost have certainly lost some other ability from damage like some optic or sighting feature.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Driving through trees really slows them down. It might not be accurate, but they probably take that into account when pathfinding. I have definately seen AI drive through trees/fences, so I know they don't avoid them at all costs.

I still think the "fast" command should just make them ram down walls etc.

Its really annoying trying to get away or similar only to have the AI "dance" around the lone tree next to the house you where at.

Easy of use ingame trumps realism here I think until you can get human adaptive levels of AI, which is far far of.

Personally, I would also just like to add that its fully possible to drive fast in forests with a 20-40 ton beast. Done it myself.

One of the main reasons you dont see it to often, where its possible, is because you feck up allot of medium sized trees which isnt great for the future of the training areas.

Edited July 5, 2011 by JojoTheSlayer

[dmarkwick 261]

Forests are a real issue for tanks, also if you look at the way it's done in Steel Beasts pro which is the definitive and only modern tank sim, forests=disaster. Try taking your platoon through one and apart from the obligatory RPG toting grunt you will lose several vehicles to breakdowns with broken and damaged tracks etc, and if you do actually manage to get through one it's as slow as hell, like REALLY slow and even though you can still drive your tank you will almost have certainly lost some other ability from damage like some optic or sighting feature.

Yep the undergrowth can really foul up your machinery. Also, it would be a very rare tank commander who would seriously limit his turret options by being among trees. However, I acknowledge that there's no real way of discounting all options in a game like ArmA :) if you wish to, you should be able to. As long as it's not plainly impossible.

Edited July 5, 2011 by DMarkwick

[archbishop lazarus 24]

I think we should begin with fences and bushes. In A2, they usually stopped the tank. Yes, then the tank goes over them, but a fence stopping a tank??!! Pathetic. :mad: I easily crushed smaller trees with a real T-55 at idle rpm in 2nd gear, I didnt feel even a bump. I did it several times. The tank wenth through them like hot knife through butter.

Although tanks are quite capable of running over trees (and house walls), and there are benefits for going into a forest, for example it can be a great concealment, its not recommended to do it in general. It can damage certain parts of the tank, especially the fenders, and everything on them.

EDIT:

watch from 0:48

Edited July 5, 2011 by Archbishop Lazarus

[wipman 1]

Hi, the AI should avoid collide with trees, even in combat; the problem is that the AIs see what you don't see, the LODs that stop the bullets (FireGeometry) etc... so they (now) have to avoid a bigger obstacle.

IRL, the APCs and MBTs avoid to collide with trees because it can fall over you and damage minor systems, like lights, sensors and even the mounted MGs; but translate that or make it work on a game is a very hard thing. The AI rightnow drive by paths and they suck driving outside this paths, they see an object... they stop to think where they gonna go next and by what direction, and then move again, is slow and unreal.

The AI should avoid to collide with trees, hard walls, houses, signs and other vehicles in every situation, even in combat. Let's C ya

[Uberduderofdoomer 10]

Im fairly sure that the germans in WW2 had a hell of a time with their tanks going over terrains of western europe. In real life, tanks getting stuck is a big reality. If anything, im pissed (well, more like mildly discontent) that tanks in Arma 2 dont get stuck more, especially when navigating ditches (thats why they have shovels on them) and hitting wet mud. As for the ai, I am pissed with their driving period.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Uberduderofdoomer

[Archosaurusrev 12]

Im fairly sure that the germans in WW2 had a hell of a time with their tanks going over terrains of western europe. In real life, tanks getting stuck is a big reality. If anything, im pissed (well, more like mildly discontent) that tanks in Arma 2 dont get stuck more, especially when navigating ditches (thats why they have shovels on them) and hitting wet mud. As for the ai, I am pissed with their driving period.

Good point.

Some people think tanks are unstoppable steel beasts capable of going anywhere, in reality they are sluggish as fuck.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

Some people think tanks are unstoppable steel beasts capable of going anywhere, in reality they are sluggish as fuck.

Did you drive one in RL? :j:

I can tell you that around 50-70cm deep mud means nothing for a modern tank! My personal experience.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

Did you drive one in RL? :j:

I can tell you that around 50-70cm deep mud means nothing for a modern tank! My personal experience.

In a combat enviroment trying to effectively not get shot up by everything in a 4km radius and maneuvering well at the same time is hard.

Sure, anyone can drive a tank in normal conditions, it's not really that hard if you get help from someone.

Once it's on it's (as I've heard.) like driving a very heavy car with more sensitive turning.

Not from personal experience.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

like driving a very heavy car with more sensitive turning.

Entirely different. You dont even feel the weight. I've driven a T-55, its very easy to control the tank. Acceleration is very good in 2nd, and quite acceptable in 3rd. 4th and 5th arent that good, but they arent for difficult terrain. Sure, 580hp isnt much, (reflected in acceleration in 4th and 5th), but the 2300+Nm torque of the engine is more than enough. And this torque is available almost at idle rpm!

I also have driving experience on MTLBu and BMP-1. The latter is simply phenomenal. Easier to drive than a car, has extremely high power reserve, and very good speed. Its off-road ability is also fantastic.

BTW, watch this:

The mud is sometimes 1+ meters deep! Try following them with a wheeled vehicle. Its hopeless. Except tracked vehicles, you can only go along this road on the back of a horse.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Archbishop Lazarus

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Weirdest multicamo scheme I ever saw :)

[Archosaurusrev 12]

Entirely different. You dont even feel the weight. I've driven a T-55, its very easy to control the tank. Acceleration is very good in 2nd, and quite acceptable in 3rd. 4th and 5th arent that good, but they arent for difficult terrain. Sure, 580hp isnt much, (reflected in acceleration in 4th and 5th), but the 2300+Nm torque of the engine is more than enough. And this torque is available almost at idle rpm!

I also have driving experience on MTLBu and BMP-1. The latter is simply phenomenal. Easier to drive than a car, has extremely high power reserve, and very good speed. Its off-road ability is also fantastic.

BTW, watch this:

The mud is sometimes 1+ meters deep! Try following them with a wheeled vehicle. Its hopeless. Except tracked vehicles, you can only go along this road on the back of a horse.

A bit of a late reply but with sensitive I mean that pretty much.

Good turning and mobility, great terrain performance (Unlike in Arma where an uphill will slow you down.).

EDIT; The T72 is a Russian tank, only pussy American tanks get stuck in mud ;).