ARMA3 needs better ACCESSIBILITY for players to meet, chat and play out of the box!

[froggyluv 2136]

@Instagoat: Outstanding iteration on distinction between the two terms. Couldn't have mentally articulated it that well meself :)

[kylania 568]

Usability is completely different. Usability means that you explain what feature does what, and why, and what it is good for. You teach basics, move, stance, shoot. etc...

The problem is today's "gamer" who enjoys CoD or BF simply doesn't have the attention span for even that. They want to jump in game, kill someone, press 3, rocket someone, press 4 and knife someone. Then they want a kill streak achievement or a shiny gun. That's the depth they are able to handle.

ArmA is so much more and to try to dumb it down to make it accessible or useable by someone who can't sit still for two minutes reading two paragraphs of briefings, understand that running into the valley might not be a Good Thing or quits the game because a parachute takes too long to land, is an injustice to the game and those of us who can do all of that.

You might be able to come up with a Boot Camp tutorial that teaches everything everyone needs to know about the basics and even a tutorial that goes into more depth, but if any of that is more than six words and a vector image long or more than 10 seconds of video, or at all different from a generic FPS it gets ignored, skipped and raged at by the Common BFoon. They want to get into game, fully armed and then some, rush at the red icons and pwn noobs ad nauseam.

BIS is gonna get their money from DayZ. Let's embrace that and stop trying to make ArmA appeal to CoD players. :)

[Smurf 12]

^ BS.

"They" (count me in) don't want to struggle with simple things that shouldn't be unnecessarily cumbersome to deal with: performing actions, handling weapons, commanding, know what is going on with you\your equipment. On top of that you need WORKING and clear tutorials (was somehow anchieved just in OA and every now and then something gets broken by a patch).

The lack of popularity of ARMA has little to do with its pace or its "modus operandi", mind that.

[call_911 10]

If it aint broke, don't touch it. only problems i saw was after that other mod new players 1 n 3 gettin disconnects because of BE error an or language core data error probably frustrated new players not being able to enjoy game online. Would be nice to have a friends list feature etc an favorite/history added to server filters etc.

[iceman77 18]

They want to jump in game, kill someone, press 3, rocket someone, press 4 and knife someone. Then they want a kill streak achievement or a shiny gun. That's the depth they are able to handle.

I can agree to what you've said to some extent. But just because someone may enjoy playing BF every now and again, doesn't mean they don't have any attention span or can't "grasp" the concept as a whole, of ofp/Arma. I mean, you've obviously played it to some extent. lol, you sure do know the standard BF "routine" as your comment above clearly shows that . Which your comment is pretty true. I played BF3 for about a month, and you pretty much nailed it. Been playing ofp/arma since early 2002. That said, that doesn't mean that a game like BF doesn't have some good aspects that could be integrated into Arma. Sure I'd like hand to hand combat introduced into A3, be it by knife,fist (for unarmed POWs or soldiers) or bayonet. I'd also like there to also be an official BI "conquest" (c&h) mode for pvp oriented players. I'm not saying I want close quarters, or even medium range combat. These maps could be large scale scenarios, using the entire map. Not every Arma fanatic likes to kill AI constantly. Currently, even with scripting / addons, the AI are to predictable and to clumsy to pose any sort of challenge, even to the most meager of squads.

[crazyjake56 10]

Oh gee, here we go again. The argument of accessibility turned into accusations of desire for dumbing down to attract a bigger crowd. Just know that none of you will ever reach a conclusion on this and several months later I will see another thread on this when I check back in.

[.kju 3245]

Insta you are wrong. Accessibility is very much needed - but not at areas where you suggest (it would hurt).

Just good tutorials, better server browser, better error handling (in MP) are three great examples to improve accessibility.

How can people learn the game better and how does the game stop or even prevent people from learning - this is what you need to ask.

[instagoat 133]

;2247426']Insta you are wrong. Accessibility is very much needed - but not at areas where you suggest (it would hurt).

Just good tutorials' date=' better server browser, better error handling (in MP) are three great examples to improve accessibility.

[i']How can people learn the game better[/i] and how does the game stop or even prevent people from learning - this is what you need to ask.

A fair statement. I´m not going to start arguing about words here, I fully agree to the essence of what you said. Removing hurdles and improving the front-end, so to speak, is massively important.

I do not believe, however, that we will see properly done tutorials like, for example like M1 Tank Platoon 2 had, where the game had videos, texts and missions for -everything-, as well as a 250 page handbook that ALSO explained everything, from controls to tactics. It even went as far as explaining doctrine (Purple and Opfor).

That kind of material is what's needed to tie people to the game. Easy access, good usability, all without removing features from the core gameplay (which really is the reason why we all play the game. I think nobody would/should be bothered by better menus and detailed text and gameplay tutorials.)

The issue, however, is time and manpower.

[rohan11221 1]

To be honest what i think Bohemia really needs to do is let people make their own servers and what not but have a few servers scattered around the world (US, Canada, England, Australia and other large player base countries) and just have that running 24/7 with a mission that is basically a fight for land with fobs scattered around the map that you have to control and dominate land so then you can have the fight going 24/7 sort of like planetside 2 how you can leave and come back and its a completely different battlefield instead of a different mission which i think would be great for utilizing all of the air/land/sea assets that people have so you could have air dedicated clans and infantry dedicated clans and stuff that all join together for a giant fight to dominate an island... I don't know i just think that a Planetside 2 approach would be amazing.

[iceman77 18]

Stop all your masterbutation BOHEMIA did not sellout we are safe. Yes most developers sellout for the buck your right but this is not about that.

Ewww... Could you imagine if EA got a hold of this franchise!? Your post made me think about that for a second and I shuddered.

[dragon01 902]

I do not believe, however, that we will see properly done tutorials like, for example like M1 Tank Platoon 2 had, where the game had videos, texts and missions for -everything-, as well as a 250 page handbook that ALSO explained everything, from controls to tactics. It even went as far as explaining doctrine (Purple and Opfor).

Humongous handbooks were one of the things I liked in the old sims. You could almost fly a real F-16 with a Falcon 4.0:Allied Force manual. The dinky pamphlet included with AII is a far cry from those. A proper manual styled as an actual military field manual would greatly help with both accessibility and immersion. Also, a better interface (I found assigning controls and especially controller axes in AII a PITA) and improved tutorials (OA didn't even include a fixed wing aircraft tutorial mission) would go a long way towards making ArmA easier to learn. I'd like to stress, easier to learn, not easier to play. Learning curve shouldn't be flattened by bringing the maximum down, but rather by stretching it along time axis and tweaking the curve itself.

That's the way accessibility should be improved in AIII. Instead of having less complex gameplay, make it easier to learn the complex model and all the little things that you can use to your advantage. Actual military procedures could help there. I loved the AA3's way of doing the basic training missions, with other recruits around, DIs jelling at you and all that. This would make the training an important part of the experience, unlike OA's floating ball that walked you through basic features and not much else.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Dragon01

[iceman77 18]

Hey guys. There's a whole encyclopida known as the BI wiki. Go check that out if you're looking for an instruction booklet for A2. It's far bigger than any falcon4 manual.

[chortles 263]

That's the way accessibility should be improved in AIII. Instead of having less complex gameplay, make it easier to learn the complex model and all the little things that you can use to your advantage.

This is the approach that Jay Crowe described around the time of E3 2012, so your idea of how it "should" be done is already in use. :D Other games such as XCOM: Enemy Unknown have demonstrated that they can be "approachable" just fine -- that is, moreso than ARMA 2 -- despite having complexity, because that complexity is under the hood and the basics of "what you should do" are taught either by railroading (as XCOM: Enemy Unknown's first tutorial mission does) or by "oh hey you really really ought to do this"-style highlighting (i.e. certain research or production choices being labeled "priority" and in differently-colored text) or mission objectives.

Ironically I believe that DayZ has proven that even "the new people who are finding out about ARMA through DayZ" (the ones stereotyped as BF3/COD spillover) can "take it", that complexity under-the-hood... after all, thanks to rocket those players were stuck with Real Virtuality. :lol: (Though now The War Z as well, mind you.) Heck, I've already seen "how to use this optic" YouTube videos, complete with the math for mildot, ranging with the PSO-1, utilizing an ACOG... after all, those reticles were better explained by "random YouTuber" than BI or rocket ever did. ;)

Hey guys. There's a whole encyclopida known as the BI wiki. Go check that out if you're looking for an instruction booklet for A2. It's far bigger than any falcon4 manual.

For ARMA 3 it's gotta come built into the game or else the non-"community" player base (hey they exist) will never look for it. :p Thankfully, so far as "how do I make my character do stuff" there's already an in-game Field Manual option in the pause menu. ;)

Though, to my knowledge the Hint system "merely" (derives?) the context/situation and brings up a pop-up to the corresponding FM entry... and it makes no pretension of being anything like an in-universe handbook; for example, instead of the entry on body protection (i.e. torso armor and helmet) being written as a DI might talk about them, the entry just matter-of-factly tells the in-game effect of wearing torso armor and/or a helmet.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Chortles

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Heck, I've already seen "how to use this optic" YouTube videos, complete with the math for mildot, ranging with the PSO-1, utilizing an ACOG... after all, those reticles were better explained by "random YouTuber" than BI or rocket ever did. ;

What's a mildot? A military punctuation? :D Yes I agree such things could be well explained in a manual, but not until recent Arma iterations have these various reticles been accurate enough to be utilized in practice. I believe in Arma1 I had to use reticle addons just to get the correct distance readings, and another to get the ballistics to match (or was it the same?). If sights aren't accurate, then there isn't really any benefit of explaining them in accurate detail when they can't really be used.

Arma is for the general playerbase still a game rather than a (sully fledged) sim. It does a lot of stuff, fairly well even, but not really in depth. I'm a frequent reader of that army field manual site, but most things discussed there doesn't apply to this game:

1) Issue not being simulated correctly.

2) Most players don't intend to use correctly, but rather just have a good time.

Although I consider myself fairly hardcore, I do have to say: Why spend time and effort producing documentation that will be rendered obsolete in patches, can be better maintained by the userbase, and only be utilized properly and read with interest by 5% of the players? If I want to know more about tank tactics, I'll head over to the field manual site, read up on the subject, and apply common sense to how I could utilize it in the limited gameplay.

That being said, I still enjoy good documentation in hard print.

Old UFO Enemy Unknown -100 pages.

New UFO Enemy Unknown - 16 pages, half of which is credits and warranty.

WTF?

So, no need to go over the top. But no need to stay at bottom feeder level either.

[dmarkwick 261]

Unfortunately over the last 10 years or so the idea of "perceived value" has reduced so that only a CD and a leaflet need be produced now. No books unfortunately unless you count those third party books that are basically game walkthroughs.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Obviously BIS is going to sell itself to a superior company like codemasters and then trade its intellectual property to EA so it can instead make royalties off of better marketing. Psshh, small time fanboys. ArmA3 will be canceled and instead expansions will come out once every 6 month by codemasters dev's

[kOepi 10]

pointless request in my eyes.

since people like to talk to people they can play with.

and since I am fighting to get rid of the ingame chat in favor of acre,

Teamspeak or the time in between playing / fighting break is the place to talk, laugh and fool around.

if you want to play, play, if you want to talk, talk.

if they mix that up it is to the loss of anyone, because people who want to talk, can only play or people who want to play, can only talk.

I really hope Arma 3 has something like the - LOVE A.C.R.E. LOVE - mod.

to all that chatter besides the topic,

for quite some time I instantly get bored, when I join a server with no structure or no make-it-happen-attitude, people who are looking a half hour for a broken vehicle

that has been reported by someone who cannot determine his position or people who have a squadleader that has 15 people under him and only says "go this way".

So I rather go out somewhere and shoot something on my own, not for long though.

On these days I understand any other FPS-player.

Edited November 6, 2012 by kOepi

[instagoat 133]

http://o.canada.com/2012/11/07/are-video-games-getting-too-accessible/

Interesting question to ask. I think they are.

The game should become more usable, more intuitive, but should not have entry levels lowered.

[chortles 263]

The game should become more usable, more intuitive, but should not have entry levels lowered.

At which point the questions should be "how much of the previous high entry level is the previous installment lacking intuitive controls/mechanics and usability?" and "how do you 'balance' out the change in entry level from making its UI more usable and intuitive?" After all, your link says that in return for "on-screen grenade indicators, weapon spawn locations" and presumably other changes the difficulty in Halo 4 was "considerably higher than past titles", though the review doesn't say anything about HOW this raised difficulty was achieved in SP, co-op or MP.

Likewise, while it brings up XCOM: Enemy Unknown, I recall that the lead dev was basically a fan of the original (and by that I mean "he brought on devs by making them play the original until they loved it too") who however never was completely okay with some of the original's own micro-managing anyway, so Enemy Unknown wasn't just a "dumbing down" or a "streamlining" but was his chance to remake it as he would have wanted it... so for example, that's why we're not getting a Terror From The Deep remake, because he wasn't a fan of the original TFTD. :p

Unfortunately over the last 10 years or so the idea of "perceived value" has reduced so that only a CD and a leaflet need be produced now. No books unfortunately unless you count those third party books that are basically game walkthroughs.

I would however note that nowadays the current tradition seems to be to integrate "how to do this" directly into the gameplay either through recurring (whether or annoying or not) instructional pop-ups or specifically making "perform these actions" story missions. (The COD4 "F.N.G." and MW2 "S.S.D.D." tutorial missions are examples of the latter.) To CarlGustaffa, I would say that this second method having become common is why so many publishers dispense with a substantive/comprehensive manual -- other than "what does this button do", the rest of the (basic) gameplay is taught in-game anyway; and I believe that you are already aware that XCOM: Enemy Unknown uses this if you use the Tutorial.

Alternately, there may well be the assumption, especially in the case of an existing IP, that there'll be enough returning buyers for installments that they won't need a refresher anyway, especially if the game is CoD or "CoD-like" and thus doesn't change much if at all controls-wise -- in ARMA's case, I recall reading from InstaGoat that at Gamescom this year the ARMA 3 default button map was "vanilla ARMA 2 + the stance adjustment modifier and keys" (Ctrl+WSADQE)... perhaps for ease of use by both ARMA and DayZ fans (who were now checking out ARMA 3/RV4) players?

CarlGustaffa, to clarify what I said about "those introduced to ARMA/RV through DayZ" -- the sheer brutality of RV compared to arcadey shooters was part of the early hype. :p Interestingly enough, some of the videos on "DayZ sniper rifle guides" demonstrated the rifles and how to gauge distance using the reticles using ARMA "shooting range" 'missions' -- and then got YouTube comments of "ooooh where do I find that range?" A gateway into ARMA? :D

[NoRailgunner 0]

Didn't BIS said they will implement some decent looking optional A3 hints so everyone can activate them if needed? As for social network - guess it should be optional too. Or is someone interested getting messages/popups during a battle with: friend requests, challenge requests and/or important informations like "el1t3 warrior has connected/ranked-up/level-up/10 kills more/ragequit again!"?? Think that some players refuse or don't want to learn something new or get familiar with something other because they got spoiled to the easy-comfy-lazy gameplay concepts of other games/shooters.... eg "Hey, just shoot the red marked guys and take care of your own K/D ratio + achievements/unlocks !!"

[chortles 263]

From what I saw, the "hints" are actually just entries from the Field Manual, so while the hint pop-ups may be optional or triggered by the mission designer their contents are available for anyone to read through the pause menu, and they do seem to be part of how BI has been trying to make ARMA 3 more "approachable" -- press Escape (default key) then click on Field Manual, and you've got a guide to the various aspects of controlling your character right there, no need to go into the Options and find the key layout.

(NoRailgunner's idea for social networking integration is interesting though, and I'd seriously agree with the idea of friend requests... but the challenge request makes me think of the ARMA 2 Armory challenges. :lol: )