Kneeling of opening map

[roguetrooper 2]

You should not kneel down automatically when you open the map. (What's actually the reason for this?) Couriously, when you don't have a weapon, you don't kneel down.

Mkay, as for realism, the character should even holster his weapon (or on back) while the map is opened :D

Might be an option for the difficulty settings. A not deactivatable auto-holster would be quite annoying in many situations or kinds of (MP) maps/gameplays.

[tom3kb 15]

I think it is good that, wenn we use map unit is kneeling. It is harder to spot or hit kneeling unit. Wenn map is open you dont have control on unit so imo kneeling wenn i use map it is good idea.

[JAG201509 10]

the player kneels because it is much easier to ues a map while kneeling it makes the game more realistic

[.kju 3245]

For a sensible discussion, at least from seany, look here:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/16782

The realism argument just doesn't fit.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Well kneeling is just one of X possibilities to read/use a map. BIS created a modern map with many features that is closer to a laptop than a oldschool map. Both would require some time and animation for proper usage. In this case kneeling fits imho more than a (optional) "instant map" on screen edges...

Perhaps someday we will have different options to use a map ingame?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@PvPscene: I looked at the ticket, but couldn't find much sensible discussion ;) And I believe the realism argument fits very well:

1) You can't look at your map without lowering your gun.

2) You can close the map without raising it again.

3) I'd rather have to manually raise the gun than lower it, if I went into map with gun lowered.

4) Why is everyone constantly running around with raised/unsafe guns? Low gun is the standard, and safe, raised gun only when you're ready to shoot. Think of it as a combined stance/safety lever. A game quirk may also discharge the weapon if tab'ed back into game with a raised gun, which is why I stress to safe/lower the gun before tab'ing out to windows.

5) To unfold a map like this (we do get to look at the whole thing instantly if we want to) would take considerable amount of time to do - but in the ticket, this realism request was called distorted reality. That being said, I don't want that level of realism myself either, but is does sound realistic.

Maybe running around with a raised gun will make us tire quicker in Arma3? I hope so, would be realistic. On assault and light weapons, the difference would be negligible, but for machineguns and heavier sniper weapons it could have a more significant impact. Always running around with a raised weapon is not realistic, it's just us players getting lazy, because we're not really getting the same tiredness feedback.

[phaeden 0]

I can say from personal experience that I have looked at a map MANY times while standing up (and even while walking/walking quickly). I never had to kneel to look at a map, find coordinated or even write on the map with an alcohol pen or grease stick. I've looked at a map while holding my rifle. I've looked at a map while holding binoculars (fairly common actually). I've looked at a map while driving a HMMWV. I've even looked at a map while scratching my ballz.

I think that the player's stance should remain the stance the player had while "opening" the map. I don't think the game should change that at all. If I was foolish enough to open a map while standing in a threatening situation, I deserve to get shot.

For realism, I would say to have the map "folded up" to include only certain portions of the map. In the 6 years I spent in the Marines, the only time I ever looked at the whole map at once was either before going on a mission or if I was assigned to a support team and would lay it out on the hood of a HMMWV or have it pinned up to a board. While actually on patrol, I would fold the map to show the area that I was in - this made it much easier to take it in and out of the map case (or my jacket as was more common). The only real exception to this is when calling in CAS (as you need to see the IP to get the right direction to target) and usually the IPs are quite distant.

Realistically, the map should also be more "worn" than the pristine version we know have. On a real map, the lamination starts to peel, it gets dirty/scratched, old marks don't always wash off cleanly. Also, real maps don't show where every bush and tree are located. :)

It would be cool for ArmA 3 to have both "real" maps and GPS units (both portable and vehicle mounted).

[no use for a name 0]

One simple click of the "Move Forward" button gets you right back up and running again...why is it a big deal?

[JAG201509 10]

also from personel experience: i find it much easier to read a map kneeling or even prone

[metalcraze 290]

It should stay how it is now.

Better safe than sorry. Especially considering that you do a lot of left mouse button clicks on the map itself.

The stupid argument "why don't you manually put weapon away then when looking at a map or getting into the car" is very stupid because putting a weapon away isn't a single click.

[76 0]

I think it is good that, wenn we use map unit is kneeling. It is harder to spot or hit kneeling unit. Wenn map is open you dont have control on unit so imo kneeling wenn i use map it is good idea.

Actually you can move.... when I play PvP and check the map by pressing 'M' I

straight away press 'C' so when I return to the game from the map I'm

standing and ready to run.

And I think its fine the way it is, you're lucky you don't have to put up with

animations showing you pull ya map out, unfolding it to read, then fold it up again

before you step off.

As someone said... whats the big deal? just press 'W' and ya off......

Edited June 9, 2011 by 76

[Egosa-U 10]

How about having two maps? (m / ctrl+m)

One with low resolution (inside a raincover) for gathering your own position/showing your own position.Without having other useful information on it (like spotted enemys or town-names, etc..). With that, I'd be looking while sprinting, walking, with binos or scratching my b..., too. :cool:

And a detailed map (Unfolded Map, enemy positions, friendly positions - the stuff you see now), where you need space to lie it out, lower your gun, or stop the car (/maybe even get out of the car to have it unfolded..

[slatts 1978]

also from personel experience: i find it much easier to read a map kneeling or even prone

agreed

[kylania 568]

For a sensible discussion, at least from seany, look here:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/16782

The realism argument just doesn't fit.

There's nothing "sensible" about seany's rants in that ticket. It's just a big "but I don't want to have to press a button" rant.

There's about a billion little things that could be fixed with ArmA2, but honestly having to raise a gun after looking at a map is not one I've ever thought of being an issue in 10 years of BIS games.

[-=seany=- 5]

There's nothing "sensible" about seany's rants in that ticket. It's just a big "but I don't want to have to press a button" rant.

There's about a billion little things that could be fixed with ArmA2, but honestly having to raise a gun after looking at a map is not one I've ever thought of being an issue in 10 years of BIS games.

Rant? do you have to be so hostile?

And Actually, It has only been in the game since Arma2, not ten years... :rolleyes: .

The OP's point and my point are slightly different, but every one is just lumping the two together.

I agree that the animation does look good to other players in multiplayer. A slight delay while performing this is also ok. My main muck up with that Dev heaven report was labelling it (and perhaps explaining) it badly.

The only thing I think would be logical to change is having the gun raised automatically when you close the map, just as it is lowered automatically when you open it...that's all. But apparently this logic goes over most people head, or they just like to argue for the sake of it..I don't know.

[phaeden 0]

I emphatically disagree with your statement, "they just like to argue for the sake of it."

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Agreed. As I already said, gun down is in safe position, up is ready to fire. Do soldiers run around with weapon unsafe, or do they actually flick the lever to safe?

So for me, it's not "argue for the sake of it", but because it makes more sense to me. Guess that logic is hard to grasp.

[-=seany=- 5]

Agreed. As I already said, gun down is in safe position, up is ready to fire.

...ok, yes that's correct...

Do soldiers run around with weapon unsafe, or do they actually flick the lever to safe?

Errr, in real life yes, in Arma? no. What are we talking about again?

So for me, it's not "argue for the sake of it", but because it makes more sense to me. Guess that logic is hard to grasp.

Like I said, having the gun lowered while looking at the map is fine....I don't know what your on about with your "everyone running around with there gun raised is unrealistic" spiel.

What has that got to do with having your gun raised automatically after pressing "M"?

You do realise that is my only issue with it, right?

You pretty much just proved my statement about arguing for the sake of it...

Edited June 10, 2011 by -=seany=-

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah it should raise automatically, same with after climbing a ladder. Seems anytime after a climb I have to remind my character he's in a combat zone.

[76 0]

omfg..... you press 'M' to exit map..... then ALL you have to do is press 'W'.

And if thats to much do AS I said before, press 'C' (or whatever button you use to stand up) WHILE in map and when you exit the map you have your gun raised, not so hard ah....

This is such an non issue.

Agreed. As I already said, gun down is in safe position, up is ready to fire. Do soldiers run around with weapon unsafe, or do they actually flick the lever to safe?

So for me, it's not "argue for the sake of it", but because it makes more sense to me. Guess that logic is hard to grasp.

+1

Edited June 10, 2011 by 76

[metalcraze 290]

What has that got to do with having your gun raised automatically after pressing "M"?

You do realise that is my only issue with it, right?

What if I don't want my gun raised automatically after pressing M?

[phaeden 0]

I hope for ArmA 3 they include the long metal probe so the game can link right into our brains - so we just have to think where the weapon should be pointed.

I need guns, lots of guns.