Is ArmA III having the OFP:CWC vibe?

[Cookieeater 10]

What annoyed me in ArmA II was the lack of design to be fun, and how nailed down it was to realism and dull conflicts. The gameplay remained relatively the same since OFP:CWC, but OFP:CWC seemed to have a much more general tactical shooter audience to it, than a serious simulator audience with it's very large attention to detail for it's campaign and all out war. I think this will be the same for ArmA III, with it's all out war with NATO and Eastern forces, and it's futuristic setting. Anyways, I like the direction ArmA III is going in. It seems to prioritize the campaign heavily, like OFP:CWC, it isn't exactly realistic, with it's futuristic setting, yet the gunplay will still operate the same like OFP:CWC and ArmA II. I think BIS became tired of catering to hardcore military simulator fans, and feel like taking a fresh breath and making a tactical realistic shooter like OFP:CWC, and i'm glad as I got tired of the ultra realistic setting. And also, there will always be modders to make the game realistic like with OFP:CWC.

[nodunit 397]

CWC vibe...that is difficult, there are many things that gave that vibe that it just leaves so many to list not to mention varies from person to person.. In my case it was relateable characters ( I wanted to try and relate to people in OA but when the Takistani was speaking and the tank guy was yacking about not understanding him (even though it was english) I couldn't help but meet the desk with my face) who would get downtime and interact, your squad leader was a hardass but not so much that you felt like you were back in bootcamp.

The progressive track was nice as well, going from infantry to vehicle and then deeper aspects was great, Operation Arrowhead tried to pull this off but it didn't work because they jumped from one to the other in mission to mission when it should have been more of a 2-3 missions focusing on that in between.

It would also be nice to see the game flaunt it's enhancements, while OA showed them in tutorials and some missions I never felt it made the most of the new tech, such as being on a night search but not having NVG's so I would need to use the new flashlights.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

What annoyed me in ArmA II was the lack of design to be fun, and how nailed down it was to realism and dull conflicts. The gameplay remained relatively the same since OFP:CWC, but OFP:CWC seemed to have a much more general tactical shooter audience to it, than a serious simulator audience with it's very large attention to detail for it's campaign and all out war. I think this will be the same for ArmA III, with it's all out war with NATO and Eastern forces, and it's futuristic setting. Anyways, I like the direction ArmA III is going in. It seems to prioritize the campaign heavily, like OFP:CWC, it isn't exactly realistic, with it's futuristic setting, yet the gunplay will still operate the same like OFP:CWC and ArmA II. I think BIS became tired of catering to hardcore military simulator fans, and feel like taking a fresh breath and making a tactical realistic shooter like OFP:CWC, and i'm glad as I got tired of the ultra realistic setting. And also, there will always be modders to make the game realistic like with OFP:CWC.

When I finally deciphered what the hell you were talking about, I decided on a single sentence for those who don't have the 5 minutes to spare.

Longer campaign with moar variety kthxbai.

[wiggum2 31]

OFP had much better campaigns and action !

And thats what a FPS is all about, the ACTION !

I just cant stand the "this is a simulator" campaigns in ArmA2 and OA.

PMC was also bad...very very bad.

The best one was EW which had a more action orientated style of gameplay.

[lsp 10]

The campaign in arma is like the worst thing to judge it by its made by the modding community and the mp/editor.So yeah you could always go play ofp RR that looks like something youll prob enjoy.

[metalcraze 290]

OFP had a well designed and varied campaign which BIS was never able to recreate later.

It has nothing to do with a gameplay or simulation or anything like that. The gameplay in OFP is flawed.

Compared to ArmA2 it was more about grabbing a scoped rifle and scoring frags - and a sniper rifle was making you an Ultimate Machine of Doom (see how it ruins Resistance campaign f.e.). Without mods OFP was too arcadey.

However I wouldn't say ArmA3 is going back to those roots.

From the announcement it looks like we will be playing Special Ops types of missions all over again. I just hope it won't turn into a disgrace that was AA2's campaign (which in my opinion is the worst one after PMC)

[maddogx 13]

The campaign in Arma3 seems to be heading for OFP:Resistance territory. Finally we get to play the underdog again. So much more fun. :)

[Tonci87 163]

Playing underdog, hell yes. When Arma 2 came out and I finished the Harvest red Campaign, I immediately asked myself: "Why didn´t they make a NAPA campaign?" This would have been so damn cool. I just love playing as resistance, using guerilla tactics, striking hard and then running back into the forest.

Since there are not that many forests on Limnos I really hope for caves!

[smeg head 10]

I totally agree

I don't want to cooperate with the joint peacekeeping forces... Bleagh!

Nor do I want to send in 3 whole platoons to take down a drunk farmer armed with a BB gun...

I want to blow up shilkas with my lazer designator ;)

[nodunit 397]

Yus underdog all the way, one of the great things about OFP I thought was the feeling of helplessness you would get and the fact that not every battle was a victory but the war went on anyway.

Higher brass such as Colonel Blake were less uncaring hardasses as is the hollywood icon. But better than CWC was Resistance imo because of what it did, giving you the perspective of average and content city (or village?) folk who find themselves plunged into chaos and ready to fight for their home.

But the strongest of all was the connection to the main character Viktor Troska, a man who wanted nothing to do with it, and we watch him go from the life he wanted to the life he was forced back into.

The story telling element was also far stronger, with vocals and music lending themselves amazingly well, just listen to this

at at :30 note how the bells sound as the tanks come on the scene as Viktor expresses his dismay, and when the soldiers run past bodies of the fallen. However the game doesn't wallow in it, we see an arc in the resistance becomming stronger and more of an influence, but we also see that things aren't hunky dory as a result of their fighting. Edited May 24, 2011 by NodUnit

[Tonci87 163]

Yus underdog all the way, one of the great things about OFP I thought was the feeling of helplessness you would get and the fact that not every battle was a victory but the war went on anyway.

Higher brass such as Colonel Blake were less uncaring hardasses as is the hollywood icon. But better than CWC was Resistance imo because of what it did, giving you the perspective of average and content city (or village?) folk who find themselves plunged into chaos and ready to fight for their home.

But the strongest of all was the connection to the main character Viktor Troska, a man who wanted nothing to do with it, and we watch him go from the life he wanted to the life he was forced back into.

The story telling element was also far stronger, with vocals and music lending themselves amazingly well, just listen to this

at at :30 note how the bells sound as the tanks come on the scene as Viktor expresses his dismay, and when the soldiers run past bodies of the fallen.

This this and again this so very much. He has totally nailed it!

[nodunit 397]

Though if if I may go further I think CWC and Resistance benefit from missions that weren't all about the killing and made you wait, it helped calm the player but also build tension.. for example

Problem with games like modern warfare is that the constant fighting and nothing but fighting quickly becomes routine, by having some changes in the scenarios, it can also build tension such as in the last video.

You start off similar to mission 3 but the music slowly builds up to give an eerie feeling as if something is not quite right.

Inside the M113 the music conveys a sense of tension a long with the wait and the fact that you control your character rather than being in a cutscene, you don't know if you are walking into an ambush or if you will find a corpse, the speed of the right is just enough to keep the player focused, wondering and keeping the tension rather than detracting from it. And the fact that you can control your character increases all of those aspects because you could be thrust into any scenario at any moment rather than a cutscene giving you the quick chance to guess what will happen.

There are just far too many aspects that made CWC and Resistance so great, one of them was variation in missions from assault, to defense, to rescue, feeling helpless and so on, you would be in combat yes but you would also have to wait for the right time or to get there.

Watching the characters interact formed a kind of bond to them and any bond is better than none because it enhances the story by forming an emotional connection of some level. If you don't get to know the characters in ways other than being gunmen then you can't get as involved and as such is less memorable. For example I assume we've all played Modern Warfare 1, what scenes stick in your mind the most?

Edited May 24, 2011 by NodUnit

[metalcraze 290]

I think in CWC you've spent the least amount of time shooting.

It's also quite telling how many people considered Pripyat level of CoDMW to be the best one - and yet it's the only level in CoDMW that isn't about "action" at all.

Why BIS never tries to get back to its roots of CWC is beyond me though.

CWC was a collection of simple but varied missions. Finally CWC was like a one huge demonstration of what OFP can do and how many things you can do in it.

After that it was mostly about "look we can render big maps"

I mean how hard can it be recreating something like that for BIS?

[Zipper5 74]

It's also quite telling how many people considered Pripyat level of CoDMW to be the best one - and yet it's the only level in CoDMW that isn't about "action" at all.

The "Aftermath" mission left the biggest impression on me, and you don't really do anything in it. :p

[Heatseeker 0]

I would combine both styles (CWC + Res) in a single campaign. Remember when Nato pulled from Everon and Armstrong was left behind? From there i would switch the campaign to a Resistance style, for some time..

There were good gameplay elements in Resistance, like scavanging weapons and keeping them and your men from mission to mission but if you throw in tanks and helicopters the whole resistance vibe is lost.

[froggyluv 2136]

Looking back at that video posted by NodUnit really brings back some great memories :)

That said, I believe it worked so well then, at that time, and should not tried to be replicated. We were wowed on two fronts: A heartfelt, interactive story of friendship, horrors of war, little man against the machine while also being treated to a whole new type of open world, go anywhere, drive anything type of gameplay.

Now that we all know the engine quite well and have played missions with worse atrocities ie... mass graves etc... there is no point in trying to recreate the same formula and hope it has the same effect. The world has changed into a faster information age with newer gamers craving instant gratification and huge visual based bells and whistles caring little for storyline short of "I'm going to save the world with me 2 Mg's and AT!!" (Check latest COD thread).

I'm all for a good storyline -but it's now the engine upgrades that will really carry the genre on.

[Daniel 0]

I'm well up for the "lone SBS survivor" campaign if we it has the Resistance vibe. Imagine struggling with the local language, lethal misunderstandings, a high tech enemy buzzing around the island hunting for survivors. Your best weapon could be a local that speaks English. It has the potential for CWC greatness and more.

[Tonci87 163]

Your best weapon could be a local that speaks English. It has the potential for CWC greatness and more.

Now that is a good idea

[HKFlash 9]

Yus underdog all the way, one of the great things about OFP I thought was the feeling of helplessness you would get and the fact that not every battle was a victory but the war went on anyway.

Higher brass such as Colonel Blake were less uncaring hardasses as is the hollywood icon. But better than CWC was Resistance imo because of what it did, giving you the perspective of average and content city (or village?) folk who find themselves plunged into chaos and ready to fight for their home.

But the strongest of all was the connection to the main character Viktor Troska, a man who wanted nothing to do with it, and we watch him go from the life he wanted to the life he was forced back into.

The story telling element was also far stronger, with vocals and music lending themselves amazingly well, just listen to this

at at :30 note how the bells sound as the tanks come on the scene as Viktor expresses his dismay, and when the soldiers run past bodies of the fallen. However the game doesn't wallow in it, we see an arc in the resistance becomming stronger and more of an influence, but we also see that things aren't hunky dory as a result of their fighting.

Just to add: in CWC you didn't know if you would win an engagement or retreat in face of overwhelming forces and/or odds. (Like that village assault in Everon where you had to retreat in face of Soviet tank reinforcements).

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

this has been repeated over and over again here in Forums and I realy hope BIS finally takes it into consideration.

I am so fed up of playing the SuperUberSpecialOpsCommander. This is not what OFP was about for me and it didnt realy add to the tension in ArmA1 and ArmA2.

It cant be so hard to come up with some terrific missions OFP style. E.g playing a pilot who was shot down and having to sneak through enemy territory to get to get to the next location where a chopper can pick you up.

Something simillar to "Behind Enemy Lines" (less Hollwoodish of course)

[NoRailgunner 0]

Depends how good the campaign/mission concept, design and implementation is. Mission maker have to find the right balance between storytelling, action and slowdowns in their missions. Missions shouldn't feel repetitive or overloaded otherwise they will get boring quite fast.

Imho it would be great if the player would become more responsible for his own actions, team and performance.

If in combat and enemy territory players should not get new units, all kind of weapons and other stuff automatically. The player has to live with what he got and maybe some supplies within the base/outpost. Collecting stuff from mission to mission should be implemented too... :)

[max power 21]

CWC and Resistence had complex, likeable characters who were easily defined and also easily identified with, and they had certain 'hero-arc' storylines.

In OFP, you took the role of David Armstrong, an earnest albeit somewhat care-free private whom we first meet as he's seemingly shirking his duties holed up in a shed listening to the radio. He has a complex social group of people with varying attitudes and affability that he's seemingly fairly indifferent to. At the beginning of the game, he has no idea what is going on, just like the player. And, like the player, he learns more as he goes. As the player's skills grow, Armstrong's responsibility grows.

The other characters are similarly complex. Robert Hammer is an apologetic tank commander in training whose eagerness over reaches his ability. Sam Nichols is a seemingly slightly jaded and aloof helicopter pilot, proclaiming 'nothing is ever routine out here, man'. All of these characters are uncertain about what is happening, and even express reservations about attacking a superior force.

Viktor Troska has seen it all before and he wants to stay out of the fighting, but is forced into it when he's forced to make a choice. He then leads a guerrilla force on a campaigned that's doomed to failure, all the while wondering if his wife or girlfriend made it out alive.

The main characters, Armstrong and Troska, both unwillingly 'answer the call' and become embroiled in situations that are highly uncertain.

Team Razor had some characters in it but I couldn't really describe to you what Sykes's or O'hara's personalities were like. O'hara seems to be a humanist, but also claims that Chernarus is 'full of assholes'. Sykes also seems quite forthright but then out of the blue decides he's pro-assassination, I guess to give a nod to his nickname, 'Ice Cold'. The only one with a definable character seems to be Robo, and what more can you say about him than he's belligerent? I guess he also doesn't think things through, and wants to be a part of the 'black ops' type action, then decides it's too hard.

I enjoyed Harvest Red, but I think it lacks a certain 'every-man evolving into a hero' appeal. Instead of interesting characters evolving into heros, you have men who are seemingly already heros with banal personalities. Instead of people who are 'one of the masses' distinguishing themselves and sharing experiences no one else understands, and becoming increasingly cut off from normal people; you have four people who have no social interaction outside of their own group, running around being awesome.

Miller seemingly has years of experience being a BlOps supersoldier, and he's still in active duty, so I think he might have more in common with Sgt. Cooper than Victor Troska, but we'll have to wait and see!

Edited May 24, 2011 by Max Power

[ProfTournesol 956]

Brilliant summery Max, i'm 100% with this.

[-GR-Operative 10]

Man, I always thought about pilots/crewmen on foot, carrying inferior weaponry.

Like your Stryker is out of action, most of the platoon is dead, lost communication, assumed KIA. You need to pick your issued plain-jane M4 and what else you can.

I can see you picking one of the M231 (Firing Port Weapons), ha ha!

It would be awesome.

What about something with the Combat Medic/Engineer Corps? You are doing some peace mission in a distant village where action is not supposed to happen and then all hell break loose. If you are Navy Seabee, you would even see M16A2s and A3s :), totally anti-tacticool.

Some major battles are nice too, where you are only a part of something bigger, and must ensure your teammates survive.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

CWC's vibe was "sim" and "realism". I was in the fanbase when it was in the works. They kept saying "game", but make no mistakes. At the time, it was a most realistic infantry sim around.

ArmA's failure, so far, in my opinion, is that it doesn't feel real enough. The A.I. is robotic and dull-witted, but when it finally wakes up it responds with superhuman accuracy. The soldiers don't seem human, though they LOOK human. It's a weird world where children don't exist. Helicopters handle strangely. Armored vehicles still have hitpoints. Weapons always function perfectly. Vehicles never break down just because vehicles break down. etc. For a sandbox game, it needs a LOT more chaos and humanity.