They better have female soldiers...

[Mac 1]

I think their shouldn't be any combat females in Arma 3. Now I didn't read all 78 pages so please excuse me if we went over this. Their hasn't been any combat female roles in any other Arma game because females aren't allowed combat roles. At all. And lets face it, no one in Arma want's to play an Admin soldier. We want to play Infantry, Armor, Special Forces, stuff like that. The roles that can't have females. So unless the faction has proof they allow female front-line infantry, or it's an irregular guerrilla faction, females should not be there.

Depends on which country you're from. Many nations have combat roles open to women

[krycek 349]

Holy crap this is Nr.3 on feedback tracker,some really WTF moment right there.This has to be the most important issue ever in the problem-free A3.

[Moroe 10]

I guess it would be cool to add females.

[scrim 1]

depends on which country you're from. few nations have combat roles open to women

ftfy.

[AlphaCentauri 10]

And lets face it, no one in Arma want's to play an Admin soldier

I don't know, I love sitting at base doing administrative duties. :D

[Lauxman 10]

There are females in combat engineer units which are portrayed in Arma...

[[evo] dan 79]

and don't forget the female A10 pilots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Campbell_(pilot)

[Guest]

Real life or Arma, woman have no place on the front line. That is not sexist, it is just fact.

But hey, if you fancy sending your daughter off to infantry training, knowing she is going to get treated how no woman should be treated, pushed past her limits and told that she is an ugly, worthless piece of sh*t, and then if she does manage to tough it out, get sent off to Afghanistan where she will be expected to kill people and live in conditions where she has to crap in ditch, not shower for 4 months, and live under nourished and in constant danger....

Apart from the obvious reasons, there are infinitely more why it is impractical, stupid, and darn right ridiculous for woman to be front line soldiers.

I have NO issues with woman whatsoever, I am not sexist. There are plenty of women in the armed forces, they have their own roles and they do them well. They have a place. Sometimes women get attached to infantry units on patrols and in combat scenarios. That is fine, they are needed sometimes, maybe to help talk with local females, maybe to make the patrol seem less aggressive. Many more reasons also.

But woman should not be tasked as infantry fighting soldiers. They certainly should not be sent through full scale male infantry training.

Any woman, or man, who claims it's "equal rights" that a woman should be allowed to fight as infantry, do you even know what you are arguing for? You think it's not *FAIR* that woman aren't allowed to go and get sent off to kill people, be killed, and lose limbs and live in the middle of a war? Are you so delusional that you think it is not fair?

Sometimes I think people argue equal rights just for the sake of it.

In Arma you do not need women as Arma is a combat sim and has no non combat roles. So no, we don't need females. Let modders do that if they wish.

Damn this is just sexist in every way possible. Women don't belong on the front line? That's a fact? Says who? If a woman can pass the same physical tests as men (it'd be sexist to have different tests), why shouldn't they be allowed to? Please don't tell me any of "it'd be distracting to the male soldiers" or "women aren't capable of killing" bullshit.

If I had a daughter and she really wanted to become a soldier in the infantry and fight on the front line, it's her decision and I'd rather support her and help her than push her away. Besides, you are saying that:

1. The lives of men aren't as much worth as the lives of women (and conversely, even that women aren't worth enough to be allowed to "die for their country"). Sexist.

2. Women are fragile and aren't capable of enduring not having a shower for 4 months, being called ugly/pushed to her limits and kill people. Just because they are women. Sexist.

3. It's fair that a person, based on gender, is barred from doing something because of their gender and not their ability. Basically the definition of sexism.

You shouldn't call other people delusional when you yourself make such, excuse my harshness, stupid statements. The only fair thing (in this case) is to judge people on their performance on the tests set by the military and not on their gender. Besides, for ArmA 3 the point is not how realistic it is (because it's 2035, for all we know it could be women only in the military) but what the player base wants. The players want this, why argue? It's not like it's taking away resources from the ArmA 3 development. Hell, they might even have the models in making already. I can't for the life of me understand why people are against it.

Oh and for the people who say that it should be left to modders. That's not a viable route. They won't be universal.

[white 1]

well so far the poll is pretty much clear, most, by far, want women models avaiable.

[PN11A 2]

Damn this is just sexist in every way possible. Women don't belong on the front line? That's a fact? Says who? If a woman can pass the same physical tests as men (it'd be sexist to have different tests), why shouldn't they be allowed to? Please don't tell me any of "it'd be distracting to the male soldiers" or "women aren't capable of killing" bullshit.

If I had a daughter and she really wanted to become a soldier in the infantry and fight on the front line, it's her decision and I'd rather support her and help her than push her away. Besides, you are saying that:

1. The lives of men aren't as much worth as the lives of women (and conversely, even that women aren't worth enough to be allowed to "die for their country"). Sexist.

2. Women are fragile and aren't capable of enduring not having a shower for 4 months, being called ugly/pushed to her limits and kill people. Just because they are women. Sexist.

3. It's fair that a person, based on gender, is barred from doing something because of their gender and not their ability. Basically the definition of sexism.

You shouldn't call other people delusional when you yourself make such, excuse my harshness, stupid statements. The only fair thing (in this case) is to judge people on their performance on the tests set by the military and not on their gender. Besides, for ArmA 3 the point is not how realistic it is (because it's 2035, for all we know it could be women only in the military) but what the player base wants. The players want this, why argue? It's not like it's taking away resources from the ArmA 3 development. Hell, they might even have the models in making already. I can't for the life of me understand why people are against it.

Oh and for the people who say that it should be left to modders. That's not a viable route. They won't be universal.

Hey johnny come lately, read the thread then reply.

[johncage 30]

female soldiers should at the very least be available as part of the singleplayer/editor, featured in the same way civilians come in male and female varieties, to create a more believable world. it would be distracting just on an aesthetic level, if no female soldiers were visible anywhere on the huge island of altis, and perhaps even a little annoying, to see such a detail being left out once again.

to me, it's always been a realism/immersion/detail thing. there is no need for a gameplay debate since that issue is so easily solved. all missions, on line and off are made in the editor and the unit types are easily modified. the presence of female soldiers is entirely within the mission designer's control before it even gets to the server.

[Guest]

Hey johnny come lately, read the thread then reply.

Hey Johnny come lately, read the thread then reply. I've posted in the thread before, and the post I quoted was two pages back. If you refer to what I said about what the discussion is about, I should have made it clear that it is what I think, not what the others who persist in their silly aversion towards female models in ArmA 3.

[jacksoldier 1]

Will the women soldiers have decreased stamina and have a reduced weight carrying limit? If you want to be realistic then you have to add those too

I don't think a 120 pound woman will be able to carry 80 pounds of gear too far

[Binkowski 26]

Why the hell is this pointless issue out weighing actual issues on the tracker? -_-

[Alwarren 2767]

Why the hell is this pointless issue out weighing actual issues on the tracker? -_-

Because the tracker is, unfortunately, so full of pointless issues that it is difficult to find actual issues.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Will the women soldiers have decreased stamina and have a reduced weight carrying limit? If you want to be realistic then you have to add those too

I don't think a 120 pound woman will be able to carry 80 pounds of gear too far

The whole idea is that while the average woman may not be suited for combat roles, there are certain ones who are. They may be a (small) minority, but not all woman will be below standards, and only those women that meet the standards will be able to appear in combat roles, hence no 120 pound women will be found there.

In the Netherlands even the special forces are open to women, however none has ever met the required level to join, so no women are found there. If some day an immensely strong and bulky girl meets the required standards, she would be welcome.

EDIT: Though this point has probably been made a million times already. Personally I would be happy if women can at least drive cars now. :j:

Edited March 21, 2013 by NeMeSiS

[PN11A 2]

Hey Johnny come lately, read the thread then reply. I've posted in the thread before, and the post I quoted was two pages back. If you refer to what I said about what the discussion is about, I should have made it clear that it is what I think, not what the others who persist in their silly aversion towards female models in ArmA 3.

Really, then you would understand that we are not opposed to woman being in this game at all so this aversion you speak of does not exist. The problem my friend is that you and several other gentlemen come into this thread and toss your opinions around as if they hold more weight than a fat based post. You did not respond to the articles I posted written by woman illustrating the same thing you call sexist. You also must not be in the military because currently their are different standards for men an woman. Is it fair that a woman can be promoted to the same status and do half the work? You speak of equality so tell me my friend how is that equal? Its been said that "we will not lower the standard for woman they will need to meet the same standard but we will re-evaluate the standard to make sure its fair."

So tell me which one of us is silly now? one of us speaks from experience the other is speaking from some magical ideal that he believes is the greatest cause to champion. All you paper white knights in this thread have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to combat you play a game, this is my profession ive seen this story play out and it does not end well. This game is about what is the norm, what is the norm is that woman are physically inferior to men and in general are not in a combat role. Now if we want to get "silly" then there should be models for all different heights of people, why aren't their any overweight people in the game, and we need more races there is no asians in the Nato force.

[Guest]

Really, then you would understand that we are not opposed to woman being in this game at all so this aversion you speak of does not exist. The problem my friend is that you and several other gentlemen come into this thread and toss your opinions around as if they hold more weight than a fat based post. You did not respond to the articles I posted written by woman illustrating the same thing you call sexist. You also must not be in the military because currently their are different standards for men an woman. Is it fair that a woman can be promoted to the same status and do half the work? You speak of equality so tell me my friend how is that equal? Its been said that "we will not lower the standard for woman they will need to meet the same standard but we will re-evaluate the standard to make sure its fair."

So tell me which one of us is silly now? one of us speaks from experience the other is speaking from some magical ideal that he believes is the greatest cause to champion. All you paper white knights in this thread have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to combat you play a game, this is my profession ive seen this story play out and it does not end well. This game is about what is the norm, what is the norm is that woman are physically inferior to men and in general are not in a combat role. Now if we want to get "silly" then there should be models for all different heights of people, why aren't their any overweight people in the game, and we need more races there is no asians in the Nato force.

Sigh.

I didn't comment on the article because it's not relevant to the discussion. If I remember correctly the article is not really sexist (except for the fact that she generalizes too much) . She is basing her opinion on her own experiences. She is making people aware of the the chronic injuries that women in the military can suffer from as a result of their service. It's a problem for both men and women, but women are probably more prone to the injuries. Either way, if women want to expose themselves to that shit it's their right, the same as for men. About what the standard should be when it comes to being qualified for the work it should be the same for men and women and have a high enough standard that the people in that position are not a danger to themselves or the people around them. If a woman (or a man, not all men can pass the tests) qualifies for the position, why shouldn't they be allowed? If they can't, tough shit. In no way should standards be lowered to include more people just because it looks good on someones agenda. In that respect I agree with you.

There are obviously people here who are against women in the game as well as in real life, so what you said about that wasn't true. This discussion wouldn't even be that big a deal if it wasn't for the blatant sexism from a lot of people here. In the end, this is about making the game cater to as many people as possible. If we take your examples of different people, and prioritize them by how many people they apply to, you'd see why this issue is so talked about. Sure, some people would like different heights and weights, but at some point the developers have to draw a line. Drawing the line at having no female models, despite women making up ~50% of the worlds population is pretty silly. Also, "no asians in the Nato force." What are you on about?

No one ever said that people are all created equal. Some are short, some are tall. Some are strong, some are weak and so on. The point is that one shouldn't be judged on how he or she was born, but by how they perform. Of course there are reasonable reasons why someone can't do something. Like a man can't cry sexism because not being able to be pregnant, or obvious stuff like that. Tough shit. Do you understand now why it's stupid to say "No, you can't do this because you are a woman/man/black/white/grey/whatever"? I bet you would be really pissed off if you were told that you can't do something you want and know you can do just because you were born as a man (as I suspect you are). Right?

Oh and

"So tell me which one of us is silly now? one of us speaks from experience the other is speaking from some magical ideal that he believes is the greatest cause to champion. All you paper white knights in this thread have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to combat you play a game, this is my profession ive seen this story play out and it does not end well.

I don't I'm championing it. I'm just calling the bullshit that I read because it annoys me. I still think you are the silly one.

[KrazyBee 8]

Even I don't agree to have women in frontline,but I do agree to have female model in the game arma.people who talks about realism all the time should come to the agreement that first of all this is a game..so yes,we should have female character to play in arma..

[Foxhound74 10]

Don't forget there are women in non-combat support roles, suppose the fighting took a turn for the worst and suddenly these rear positions are the new front line?

[KrazyBee 8]

Totally if anyone is put in a situation to fight for their life and for ur friends in combat I think anyone is capable to fight back.

[PN11A 2]

Your taking issue with them being told they can't. I'm sorry man if I misunderstood. Let me explain again, right to do something is out the window when your right can put someone else's life in danger. Usually a female in the team means you carry more. When you physically are broken down and can't pull your weight now what? Your team mates aren't going to leave you. The point I was making is they have limitations and those limitations make them a liability in situations. Truth is man standards will be changed to meet the demand. That said this is a game if they are there or not I do not care it will be better for BIS if they are, just stop trying to justify it with absurd arguments.

[scrim 1]

Don't forget there are women in non-combat support roles, suppose the fighting took a turn for the worst and suddenly these rear positions are the new front line?

Uh, infantry would be reorganized and take over quickly? That's sort of how it works, I don't think they'd tell them to start doing support jobs because the support personnel wanted a go at their job.

[PN11A 2]

Uh, infantry would be reorganized and take over quickly? That's sort of how it works, I don't think they'd tell them to start doing support jobs because the support personnel wanted a go at their job.

I think he is taking "in the rear with the gear" to seriously

[Baggins 10]

This are just guys using female names. I have not met any real girl, women, wife or girlfriend that likes such games or likes partners playing games so far and I never will fore sure. The only SIM I know of girls play sometiemes is THE SIMS

I know I am a rarity as an Arma 3 player, but I can assure you that I am female and have the genetics to prove it. Thanks. So NOW you have met one. and for the record I do not like the Sims. I also play a number of other FPS games and so does my SISTER. Don't all faint at once.

I personally would like a female soldier. At the end of the day, it's a game. Are you saying that because females can't do certain roles in the army IRL physically that they can't play that role in a game? That's just backwards.