They better have female soldiers...

[scrim 1]

I can't believe someone actually asked that. Seriously, why do you think all civilised countries in the world say "adults can't have sex with children, even if they consent"? Because children are just that, children. They're not mature enough to make, or even comprehend those decisions, or their consequences. That's exactly why they shouldn't, and won't be able to take up arms in Arma 3. Then again, they probably won't even be in at all, just like now because of the dumb shit some people would do if they were.

[-Coulum- 35]

I can't believe someone actually asked that. Seriously, why do you think all civilised countries in the world say "adults can't have sex with children, even if they consent"? Because children are just that, children. They're not mature enough to make, or even comprehend those decisions, or their consequences. That's exactly why they shouldn't, and won't be able to take up arms in Arma 3. Then again, they probably won't even be in at all, just like now because of the dumb shit some people would do if they were.

There's the reason. For some reason that slipped my mind. I agree with you.

Edited February 15, 2013 by -Coulum-

[PsychoPigeon 10]

No please, I hate seeing the marxification

[nodunit 397]

Well there is the moral reason and the creation reason, IE the skeleton of a child model would be significantly different than that of an adult woman who would be similar to the male skeleton.

That said, you only need to look at skyrim to see what people do to digital children.

[vegeta897 13]

What on earth are you people talking about? This thread has gone way off topic.

[nodunit 397]

Has it? The base for each supporting argument stems from morality, science, and gameplay.

Edited February 16, 2013 by NodUnit

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Has it? The base for each supporting argument stems from morality, science, and gameplay.

When kids got involved in the topic I thought of reaching for the barge pole and flaming arrows myself so maybe, yes.

It has segued into something that isn't directly connected to females being usable in ArmA.

[metalcraze 290]

Well there is the moral reason and the creation reason, IE the skeleton of a child model would be significantly different than that of an adult woman who would be similar to the male skeleton.

That said, you only need to look at skyrim to see what people do to digital children.

There are children with down's syndrome and pregnant women in VBS2. Needless to mention what you can do to them :rolleyes:

As for morality. In Fallout 2 there is a location with annoying kids and a kid stole something from me and I shot him right there and then. Zomg I'm a monster who eats children irl

[scrim 1]

Yeah, because it's VBS2, not Arma.

[-Coulum- 35]

What on earth are you people talking about? This thread has gone way off topic.

Yeah you're right. When I mentioned kids I thought that the reasons why they should/shouldn't be able to bears arms in game were similiar to the "reasons" why woman shouldn't fight. But scrim clearly stated what my thought process had missed. My bad - there is no good reason kids should even be in game let alone fight in game. I suggest we forget about it before someone says something they will regret.

http://jaycrowe.tumblr.com/post/43011714100/lacey

At first I thought Lacy was a women that would fight under your command. I thought for sure they were dropping a hint about women being in a combat role... turns out that Lacy is just a last name of a guy though... oh well.

[[frl]myke 14]

You can stop arguing about children in A3, the topic clearly is about Women in A3.

[Laqueesha 474]

Was reading the news article about DayZ's latest update, and thought that their picture of their female head models would fit perfectly for female U.S. troops in ArmA 3. Man, these are some good-looking models/textures.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Laqueesha

[Dibuk 10]

*checks the time*

Well not a full year this time... I'm tree months early!

I see the topic has grown with some ~30 pages since last time.

So Arma III is in alpha and still no sign of female combatants? It makes kinda disappointed, as about 90% of those that voted wither wanted or wouldn't mind having them in. I mean even DayZ have them, so it can't be that bloody hard for the real developers to add them?

If this is wrong and they have confirmed something I've missed I apologize.

[lugiahua 26]

*checks the time*

Well not a full year this time... I'm tree months early!

I see the topic has grown with some ~30 pages since last time.

So Arma III is in alpha and still no sign of female combatants? It makes kinda disappointed, as about 90% of those that voted wither wanted or wouldn't mind having them in. I mean even DayZ have them, so it can't be that bloody hard for the real developers to add them?

If this is wrong and they have confirmed something I've missed I apologize.

hell, we don't even know full faction vehicle list yet. I hope they make faction videos like Arma2, with OFP main theme...that was really awesome

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Female combatants are extremely rare in the vast majority of military forces. They were extremely rare even during times of world conflict as in WW2 when it was a case of "we need every man we can get". Women support the war effort in a more logistical way than actually fighting. There are many reasons to NOT have female soldiers in active combat roles. I can only think of ONE country off the top of my head that has female combatants, and that's Israel. Even there it's not all that common to have them actually fight, it's still predominantly men.

If you want women, there's mods for that. It really isn't statistically common enough for them to add them in any big way, even given the storyline of the shit hitting the fan.

[spamurai 3]

I do enjoy how this topic is, of all the topics I see regarding feature requests for ArmA games, the more active and controversial subjects. It amuses me to read how the subject at hand constantly falls to morale; ethical and political reasons based on the realities of real life, as opposed to the tangible and practical arguments of how it would benefit (or hinder) the developing technical design of the ArmAverse as a digital video game technology.

It doesn't matter why we, as a society, find it to be morally or ethically or politically challenging to include woman as combatants in our wars... we're talking about expanding the technical depth of the ArmA franchise as a whole in the context of it being a "Sandbox".

Therefore, it would be a boon to ArmA development potential if, at the very least, the game resources included the rigged animation bone structure with appropriately matched motion capture sequences to at least build female characters... then, should Armaholics feel inclined, they can go about creating the content themselves. They will build the models, draw and map the textures and assemble all the config and rigging files to create as many (or as few) variations as they want. Having known ArmA for as long as I have.... you can bet someone, somewhere, out there will generate the content if you merely provide them the bare minimum of what they need to make it possible.

Right now, that would be (IMO) the Animation System... the bone skeleton... which modders lack in order to generate truely different content. Right now, it's one size fits all and we just adapt what's already there. But we are therefore, equally limited in our creative potential by what's already there, or not there as the case may be.

The same goes for the argument of whether or not the ArmA resource library should include provisions for allowing a Character model to jump... forgetting for a moment that without that very basic potential, some truly creative opportunities for custom content are being squandered. It's not really a true "Sandbox" if you start telling people what they can and can't build in it.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Spamurai

[johncage 30]

i think the core of the issue is realism and immersion, and unfortunately people can't help but muddle it all up with ideology and politics.

[lugiahua 26]

Female combatants are extremely rare in the vast majority of military forces. They were extremely rare even during times of world conflict as in WW2 when it was a case of "we need every man we can get". Women support the war effort in a more logistical way than actually fighting. There are many reasons to NOT have female soldiers in active combat roles. I can only think of ONE country off the top of my head that has female combatants, and that's Israel. Even there it's not all that common to have them actually fight, it's still predominantly men.

If you want women, there's mods for that. It really isn't statistically common enough for them to add them in any big way, even given the storyline of the shit hitting the fan.

I don't have figure at the hand, but US military has fairly large female soldiers in non-combat role, like vehicle driver, radio operator, engineer, MP and medical.

when I was a cadet, my "battalion" had more female than male..

but for gaming purpose, I really don't care as long as female have proper animation for modding purpose, not like Arma2 where they couldn't even drive most cars.

(say, you are making an IDF mod)

[k00lkid 1]

I don't have figure at the hand, but US military has fairly large female soldiers in non-combat role, like vehicle driver, radio operator, engineer, MP and medical.

when I was a cadet, my "battalion" had more female than male..

but for gaming purpose, I really don't care as long as female have proper animation for modding purpose, not like Arma2 where they couldn't even drive most cars.

(say, you are making an IDF mod)

I guess if you consider roughly 15% a large percentage...I don't really care either but like you wish they have more animations than just running around. I don't see why some males are so passionate about this issue, it's a video game so it's not really a civil rights issue. Even in real life I wouldn't consider "women in combat roles" a civil rights issue, more like a political move.

[jacknorrisuk 146]

Without getting too deep in technicalities or gender politics;

I think it would be brilliant to have at least a few fully capable females in Arma 3. Dare I say this is the (middle of the) 21st Century. Right now female rights are getting all kinds of footholds in all industries - and military affairs are right up there. Google it.

And, in terms of gaming audiences and commercial interests this makes perfect sense too. DayZ has actually succeeded in drawing many real-life female gamers to the Armaverse. Which is brilliant. I don't remember seeing a single female in our community since the Operation Flashpoint days...so why don't we at least recognise they exist and might enjoy playing Arma 3 as the gender they actually are?

And, I want to see how it feels to fight alongside women. To fight against women too. There's no reason why BI can't give this a shot. If it's done well it could easily be used as a social experiment to see how males (pretty much all of us, right?) actually respond to seeing women in combat (some studies show that men act protectively etc.)

And one more thing.

If there's a single game studio in the world that's capable of including females in a completely gender-balanced, non-sexualised equal-opportunities way, it's Bohemia Interactive. So, come on. I'm still waiting to see a decent female character that isn't based on boobs and hips. :D

[Madus_Maximus 0]

I don't have figure at the hand, but US military has fairly large female soldiers in non-combat role, like vehicle driver, radio operator, engineer, MP and medical.

when I was a cadet, my "battalion" had more female than male..

but for gaming purpose, I really don't care as long as female have proper animation for modding purpose, not like Arma2 where they couldn't even drive most cars.

(say, you are making an IDF mod)

This is why I specifically said: "combatants" and "logistical". It's extremely rare to see women actually fighting in any professional military force. A lot of it is to do with psychology and differences in physical strength. As un-PC as it may sound, women are generally less physically strong than men are, it's just the way humans have evolved. It's a similar case in many species in this planet. The male is generally the more aggressive and physically strong gender.

The psychological side of things plays a role too. Men are more likely to come to the aid of a fallen female than a fallen male, it's how our brains are wired. Even if the bloke is in a much more serious condition. It's also more emotionally distressing to see females injured or killed (there's been a few studies done over the years by various militaries around the world which is why it's still rare to see women in a combat role).

They could, maybe should add women too, but given the focus is on combat in the vast majority of scenarios that will be created it stands to reason that most or all combatants will be male. I'm sure mods will show up to change things if people want it, but I'm not convinced it's something BIS should really spend too much time on at this stage.

[Welch 1]

I agree that there would be female soldiers in combat in 20 years. Although, you've got to think if NATO would allow it in 20 years. I know for sure that there'd be guerilla women, no doubt, but maybe NATO's got a policy against sending women to combat. But I mean if all of Europe is in trouble, then you'd think they'd change that.

[Oshi7 1]

If it makes the game more appealing to a larger audience, they should do it. Wouldn't break realism for me at all.

[Ragingbear505 10]

I'd be fine with women in the game, especially the prostitutes from Arma 2, dayum. But seriously I don't want to see Arma 3 become another Skyrim-warrior-stripper-simulator.

[AussieStig 10]

I've argued with several feminists on the feedback ticket on feedback.arma3.com over the past day, and my view on it is that it's too late for this now, and there is no point to it. It doesn't add anything to a military simulator, so I don't see why bohemia should have to waste their time on something that doesn't change their game in any way at all.