Do you want Laaagdoll Physics in ArmA 3?

[walker 0]

...EDIT*

Anyone knows mount and Blade?

Its a medival fighting game, and you can play on around 100 - 200 players on pretty small maps. Its damn intense and IT GOT Ragdoll.

Theres no Lag at all, even when 20 Dudes, get slaughtered right next to you. Btw. thers an option to set Radoll effects on: 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 Bodies.

Hi KrAziKilla

Mount and Blade, so I am guess not many guns in the game.

Still they maybe have arrows so can you hide behind the bodies. A body will definitely stop an arrow.

Have you tried hiding behind the bodies in MP to prevent being hit by an arrow?

Of course it should be called mount and sorcery as they have magically disappearing ghost bodies.

Are you a seventh level elf lord magician KrAziKilla? Sorry not up on the classes in D&D type games.

Kind Regards walker

[dale0404 5]

Hi KrAziKilla

Mount and Blade, so I am guess not many guns in the game.

Still they maybe have arrows so can you hide behind the bodies. A body will definitely stop an arrow.

Have you tried hiding behind the bodies in MP to prevent being hit by an arrow?

Of course it should be called mount and sorcery as they have magically disappearing ghost bodies.

Are you a seventh level elf lord magician KrAziKilla? Sorry not up on the classes in D&D type games.

Kind Regards walker

A hint of sarcasm there I am guessing... :D

[Cyteless 10]

Hi KrAziKilla

Mount and Blade, so I am guess not many guns in the game.

Still they maybe have arrows so can you hide behind the bodies. A body will definitely stop an arrow.

Have you tried hiding behind the bodies in MP to prevent being hit by an arrow?

Of course it should be called mount and sorcery as they have magically disappearing ghost bodies.

Are you a seventh level elf lord magician KrAziKilla? Sorry not up on the classes in D&D type games.

Kind Regards walker

Yeah, because calling him out like that was really necessary.

Mount and Blade can have guns.

http://britishdestinations.wikispaces.com/file/view/mb8.bmp

[Murphe 0]

I certainly want ragdoll physics, have done for a while. That screen definitely suggests ragdoll to me but I think it's a little early for this isn't, it isn't even confirmed let alone how BI intends to implement it.

I don't understand why you needed the Mythbusters to add weight to your argument. Ragdoll physics to me in no way implies that bodies would fly backwards when shot, I doubt many here do. But a body slumped in a realistic way adds a lot of immersion and I'm confident that BI will do a good job with them. There are too many ways to be killed in this game for death animations to achieve the same level of immersion in my opinion.

[walker 0]

A hint of sarcasm there I am guessing... :D

Hi dale0404

Whatever gave you that idea? I am just unaware of how the magical ranks in Mount and Blade work.

Kind Regards walker

[Rak 0]

If Bohemia updates their 1990's legacy netcode, it won't lag at all. It will also probably be client side, so it won't affect the net code.

I just don't understand some of the people in this forum who just object to any technology from 2000's. They love their crude interface, horrible netcode, clunky movement, cheesy campaign story, weird animations and physics.

[walker 0]

I certainly want ragdoll physics, have done for a while. That screen definitely suggests ragdoll to me but I think it's a little early for this isn't, it isn't even confirmed let alone how BI intends to implement it.

I don't understand why you needed the Mythbusters to add weight to your argument. Ragdoll physics to me in no way implies that bodies would fly backwards when shot, I doubt many here do. But a body slumped in a realistic way adds a lot of immersion and I'm confident that BI will do a good job with them. There are too many ways to be killed in this game for death animations to achieve the same level of immersion in my opinion.

Hi Murphe

As it says It is to explain to the Holywood blown away numpties that that is hollywood not reality.

Kind Regards walker

---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 PM ----------

If Bohemia updates their 1990's legacy netcode, it won't lag at all. It will also probably be client side, so it won't affect the net code.

I just don't understand some of the people in this forum who just object to any technology from 2000's. They love their crude interface, horrible netcode, clunky movement, cheesy campaign story, weird animations and physics.

Hi Rak

What science is your degree in?

I ask because you seem to be saying that you know the physics of how to get Ragdoll, HCI design, and 3D animation systems and even netcode better than BIS.

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 20, 2011 by walker

[dmarkwick 261]

Holy crap not this again :) will it be easier to simply copy & paste my other replies from the previous thread to cover this? Ragdoll need no impact MP in any way. Sync the torso in EXACTLY the same way as it is already done, and just ragdoll the limbs.

The term "ragdoll" does not need to drag along with it all the negative connotations that previous game titles have burdoned it with, all problems can be solved or minimised. Daft poses can be minimised by proper weight applied and joint angles restricted. CPU utilisation can be minimised by freezing the pose after either a set time, or an amount of inactivity. And MP sync has already been discussed.

Edited May 20, 2011 by DMarkwick

[krazikilla 5]

Hi KrAziKilla

Mount and Blade, so I am guess not many guns in the game.

Still they maybe have arrows so can you hide behind the bodies. A body will definitely stop an arrow.

Have you tried hiding behind the bodies in MP to prevent being hit by an arrow?

Of course it should be called mount and sorcery as they have magically disappearing ghost bodies.

Are you a seventh level elf lord magician KrAziKilla? Sorry not up on the classes in D&D type games.

Kind Regards walker

Bit of strange niveau you got, nevermind.

And yes, Its at least working nice, to hide behind living dudes, which are walking infront of you in a hail of arrows :D

Yes, the bodies are dissapearing after an amount of dead bodies are reached (you can edit that). Whats the problem?

About guns in this game: -> Mound and Musket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdlUFLo-0xA

Just watch it, its awesome :)

- NO i am no lord of something. I dont like magic and phantasy stuff at all. Also no idea what D&D is? :)

Enough about Mount and Blade, just wanted to give an example about that it is possible.

Lets stay on ArmA3 a bit, mkay?

[Leon86 13]

Ragdoll doesn't mean you'll have bodies flying because of a shotgun. Even rainbow six raven shield has ragdolls. That runs fine on a pentium IV.

If the server decides an input and timestep the outcome of the ragdoll will be the same for everyone, so it doesn't have to cost bandwith either.

[froggyluv 2136]

Bit of strange niveau you got, nevermind.

And yes, Its at least working nice, to hide behind living dudes, which are walking infront of you in a hail of arrows :D

Yes, the bodies are dissapearing after an amount of dead bodies are reached (you can edit that). Whats the problem?

He's right about no collision for dead bodies in M&B once they are dead -thats true even with ragdoll disabled in SP to much dismay.

[walker 0]

Hi DMarkwick

So you are talking about only using ragdoll for death animations?

And then you have some method of swaping from the normal BIS recorded animation body while alive then synchronising the body from the animation to the ragdoll method?

And Not having the trunk of the body, sholder to arse, rotatable? Eg it always falls on its back or perhaps a range of pre decided angles.

The last will probably lead to some jarring visual inconsistencies.

Kind regards walker

---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

...About guns in this game: -> Mound and Musket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdlUFLo-0xA

Just watch it, its awesome :)...

Hi KrAziKilla

Did you miss the bodies fall through the other soldiers and their guns?

Gosh but that animation looks clunky. Robo Redcoats!

Amaizing what the human brain fills in when you waive the Ragdoll wand.

Kind Regards walker

[krazikilla 5]

Hi KrAziKilla

Did you miss the bodies fall through the other soldiers and their guns?

Gosh but that looks clunky.

Amaizing what the human brain fills in when you waive the Ragdoll wand.

Kind Regards walker

Nono i didnt miss. Also i didnt miss that its not possible, to hide behind dead bodies, against arrows etc.

But i never said that thers no space for improvements :)

And maybe, stay a bit less insulting please. thx

[dale0404 5]

Nono i didnt miss. Also i didnt miss that its not possible, to hide behind dead bodies, against arrows etc.

But i never said that thers no space for improvements :)

And maybe, stay a bit less insulting please. thx

Ah, so now I understand, you do not know what sarcasm means?

[Leon86 13]

but even ravenshield has it! and that's been released in 2003.

and like I said 2 times before, if the server decides input and timestep it doesn't cost bandwith either and the outcome is the same for everyone.

[ravendk 25]

I think BIS should include the L/R-agdoll, but not make it so persons get blown away, but having them fall propper would be a nice improvement. Ei if you shoot a guy on a roof, he could be tumbling down if he were colse to an egde.

[Tonmeister 14]

A) Client Adam accuses client Charlie of cheating. Where player Adam believes he is in cover behind the dead body of Bill, while player Charlie can clearly see Adam is not behind the the body.

B) And this is the Killer; now consider the collision detection synchronisation. On Client Adam an invisible force. While for Client Charlie, Dead Client Bills legs keep keep leaping into the air and Client Adam keeps sliding backwards along the floorkeeps kicking him away from the body of Client Bill who he is diligently taking cover behind it.

C) You partially turn off collision detection so that only a notional 1 foot core of body provides cover. Client Adam still keeps getting pushed towards smelling Dead Bill's ass by the unknown force but it is not as bad, err maybe. Client Charlie sees Client Adam crawl through Dead Bill's feet right up Dead Bill's ass then bounce out to the side where upon he shoots him.

D) Alternately you completely turn off collision detection in bodies, in which case, as we have decided to ditch real physics and replace it with magic; why not just instantly remove all dead bodies. Reductio ad absurdum.

Kind Regards walker

i just don't get the narrative.. is this a love story? I really think bill, adam and charlie should just kiss and make up.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Of course we want it. That however dosent mean we wont complain about the lag later though :o.

[dissaifer 10]

So, let me understand this... Your argument against having ragdoll deaths (because that is the only time you really use it) is because you 'may' want to use the body for cover?

When is the last time you've done that in game? Or anyone for that matter?

[Kirq 0]

Hell Yes!

[carlostex 38]

Well the dummy when shot and fell to the ground reminded me of ragdoll.

[dmarkwick 261]

Hi DMarkwick

So you are talking about only using ragdoll for death animations?

As I understand the term it's applied to jointed entities that need free movement. And I always took the term to mean specifically to dead bodies so yes, ragdoll for death animations. Other physics effects are just physics.

And then you have some method of swaping from the normal BIS recorded animation body while alive then synchronising the body from the animation to the ragdoll method?

Not understanding your point here, ragdoll from animated entity is a common occurrence in games. Ragdoll can be applied to sections of an entity that are attached to an animated section. i.e. ropes from helos. Arms from torsos :)

And Not having the trunk of the body, sholder to arse, rotatable? Eg it always falls on its back or perhaps a range of pre decided angles.

When the only thing you need to sync is the torso, then you can either transmit the torso behavior from the server (and thus incur your wrath ;)) or simply apply one of 20 or so falling poses to it, and allow ragdoll to animate & pose everything else.

The last will probably lead to some jarring visual inconsistencies.

What do you mean by inconsistencies? Ragdoll is all about implementation, appropriately weighted segments and angle-limited joints can solve problems concerning unnatural poses, and inconsistencies between clients will be limb only, and will be inconsequential in the same way that smoke and other particle inconsistencies are inconsequential.

Edited May 20, 2011 by DMarkwick

[Maddmatt 1]

I think all the problems people see with ragdolls are overblown. They can all be solved one way or another.

Too many soldiers dying at once? Only do advanced physics calculations for the closest ones to the player. The rest can play an animation and use physics to adjust their pose so they're not sticking through a wall or something.

Multiplayer sync? Client side physics, then sync the final resting position.

Stupid poses? Yea dead people never land in 'stupid' poses...

It wont be as stupid as a pose where the body is sticking through a wall.

The game has a core i5 as a minimum requirement. A few ragdolls aren't going to kill that off.

[Haystack15 10]

"Im not Bothered about it"

I've gotten so used to ARMA having animations so much. I forgot what "Physics" mean..

[pathetic_berserker 4]

So, let me understand this... Your argument against having ragdoll deaths (because that is the only time you really use it) is because you 'may' want to use the body for cover?

When is the last time you've done that in game? Or anyone for that matter?

Cant tell you exactly the last time but definately done more than 5 times over the years playing A1 and A2. Saved my arse at least twice.

Problem here is I see a lot of people arguing eye candy over the depth of game play. All I can say is that I hope BIS dosn't include unless they can come to a solution where game play doesnt suffer in ANY way.

And of course there is the other unrealistic side of Ragdoll when not done properly and not mentioned at the start. Oily frictionless slugs. Cant stand bodies that refuse to stop sliding on stuff.

Whats more, rag dolls still often dont get the collision with walls right enough to be 100% convincing.

I'd rather hope they significantly improve colision detection and the possible animation combinations to negate the hanging bodies (which I dont actualy see very much anyway).

And arrive at a smarter solution to the age old, but good, but not good enough, ragdoll