Stealth Kills?

[zodd 14]

Updated version of silent takedown script. Being used on Wasteland server to good effect.

Difficult to get an effective melee strike but possible (MUCH easier on an unaware enemy)

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=19731

Standard takedown requires close range and keeping aim on target for 1.5 seconds (duration of 'strike')

edit: Not 100% insta kill - customisable general stats including failure rate and damage. Units must be assigned (individually or by group trigger) to have the ability to use the takedown. Individual unit melee effectiveness can also be customised.

Takedown effected by salute key/addaction menu

[enforcer4100 10]

I'm saying sneak up behind enemy, slit throat or break neck. Just how they train the Spec Ops to do.

And here is where the problems start, as oposed what Hollywood wants us to believe you cannot slitt someones throad with just one cut because of the cartilage (? bone around your airway).

Same for breaking someones neck.

[rye1 21]

And here is where the problems start, as oposed what Hollywood wants us to believe you cannot slitt someones throad with just one cut because of the cartilage (? bone around your airway).

Same for breaking someones neck.

You state everything like it's a fact and you define the airway in two different contexts. That statement sounds like you cannot die from having your throat slit... or at least cannot die from having it slit 'only once'. "Just one cut", seriously? The OJ murder case was a cut that went all the way to the spine. If you apply one variable of number of 'cuts' or 'slits' then it's just a pointless argument. You're basing your argument off nothing of substance. You don't account for depth, for anatomical location, for technique, for anything that involves killing with a knife which proves lack of understanding.

"Because of the cartilage", yes, you have cartilage around the trachea in certain areas. You can slice through cartilage and ligament, I guess you've never butchered a turkey or have seen a beheading video. Don't forget the carotid arteries and the jugular vein also, it's not the 'cartilage is where it's at' statement; rapid blood loss and blood filing into your airway isn't 'just' anything.

Same for breaking someones neck? Not even going to go there.

[Arcani 1]

And here is where the problems start, as oposed what Hollywood wants us to believe you cannot slitt someones throad with just one cut because of the cartilage (? bone around your airway).

Same for breaking someones neck.

You can snap someone's neck if you have the right amount of strength (which most soldiers do) and the right angle at which you twist someone's head.

Also, between the Adam's apple and the main neck there is a pretty substantial gap in the defense which is hard to aim for (I know) BUT: enough force could easily break the cartilage AND: that force is the force of desperation and will to survive because that soldier knows that if he fucks up killing the sentry he's probably gonna die and his buddies, that are also scouting with him, will probably die and the battle will most probably be lost, resulting in the death of maybe the whole squad/company/battalion/regiment/army he's in and that's coming up close to attack the outpost.

[rocksoldier 1]

i suggest you to read the field manual 21-150, im sure you can find it with google.

[samco 1]

Stealth Kills are in COD , Battlefield or Hollywood movies ----> they are fake for sure

Congratulations Mainstream shooters and Hollywood you ruined this community

The Truth lies in the middle....as Rye in 66 pages has tried to explain

[enforcer4100 10]

You don't account for depth, for anatomical location, for technique

Technique can in my opinion be ruled out, because we assume that soldiers are trained to do it the right way.

Depth can also be ruled out because we assume that we won't have a million knives in game.

You might have a point with anatomical location, I am not medicaly (spelling?) trained so I can't really comment on that.

Regarding your point about turkeys, comparing a turkey and a human is like comparing a jeep and a tank. They are completely different things that you can't compare.

If you talk about the OJ murder case I assume you talk about the OJ Simpson case right?

I quickly did some research and it said that his (ex-)wife was stabbed not cut.

I am aware of all the arteries in someones neck but even if you cut those open your target won't be instantly dead (which I was discussing, insta-kills).

[samco 1]

few things are 'insta-kills'...people could survive even to headshots...death by blood lossen in the neck could occur from 5 to 20 seconds ... again not instant... but less noisy than a gunshot for sure, especially if the knife stabs the spine it could cause shock and uncociousness.

[nodunit 397]

Stealth Kills are in COD , Battlefield or Hollywood movies ----> they are fake for sure

Congratulations Mainstream shooters and Hollywood you ruined this community

The Truth lies in the middle....as Rye in 66 pages has tried to explain

Except for the fact that at least the last several pages people have been discussing different techniques in how this would fit without making knives be the 1 stab kill all mainstream formula.

[mmaruda 20]

I don't think at this point anyone who isn't convinced will change their mind. There is a simple solution - BIS should make it an option. Noone complains about BIS putting cross-hairs in the game, because you can turn them off. Same should go with stealth kills. Don't like it? Untick it in the gameplay options an problem is gone.

[nodunit 397]

You're comparing a gameplay element to UI though, not the same.

The majority of people who jump on the "NO" train are thinking of the way knives work in most games IE the stab anywhere to kill 1 hit 1 second kind of thing, it doesn't have to be that way and can in fact compliment the armor system as well as be more realistic.

It would be a new take on knives for the whole of the industry when you think about it.

[2nd ranger 282]

I don't think at this point anyone who isn't convinced will change their mind. There is a simple solution - BIS should make it an option. Noone complains about BIS putting cross-hairs in the game, because you can turn them off. Same should go with stealth kills. Don't like it? Untick it in the gameplay options an problem is gone.

People cannot keep saying this. One person wants feature X but someone else disagrees, then someone else says "Well BIS should just make it an option". That is NOT a "simple solution".

[3instein 10]

@Nodunit,

"It would be a new "TAKE ON KNIVES" for the whole of the industry when you think about it."

Is this Take On Knives a new BI game you speak of?

Mick. :)

[KrazyBee 8]

There is nothing wrong with having knives on arma 3 as long as its not like cod where u kill enemy by teleporting.people still need to realize that arma is a game not some super military sim that people want to believe.

[nodunit 397]

@Nodunit,

"It would be a new "TAKE ON KNIVES" for the whole of the industry when you think about it."

Is this Take On Knives a new BI game you speak of?

Mick. :)

I see what you did there, yes however it also includes katana's, chainsaws, butterflies, bayonets, throwing knives, broadswords, machetes, daggers, and all forms of bladed weaponry.

With a new system designed to simulate the strength of the weapon again solid surfaces as well as deflections, so you have to throw that knife just the right way or it will bounce off the target.

[smookie 11]

Personally i am a fan of melee combat system and i am willing to help out on animations side whoever will be taking on the knives (or any kind of melee weapon for that matter) :))

[liquidpinky 11]

Personally i am a fan of melee combat system and i am willing to help out on animations side whoever will be taking on the knives (or any kind of melee weapon for that matter) :))

If you could combine MGO CQC fighting techniques with Arma, it would probably be the best game in the world. Ever.

All we need is an electric stun knife and a handfull of tranquilliser darts.

[KrazyBee 8]

Lol yeah mgo was an awesome game but way ahead of its time

[rye1 21]

few things are 'insta-kills'...people could survive even to headshots...death by blood lossen in the neck could occur from 5 to 20 seconds ... again not instant... but less noisy than a gunshot for sure, especially if the knife stabs the spine it could cause shock and uncociousness.

Based off what source? 5-20seconds depends on location, does it? Because in Fairbairn's timetable of death some are almost instantaneous and others <2 seconds. That's more than half your... guesstimate. Modern studies suggest 40 seconds with a single wound, that's without continued cutting. I agree you could cause a number of injuries including spinal injuries bordering quadriplegia or paraplegia. Shock depends on what factor, medical shock or 'oh crap' kind of shock. Either way less noisy I agree with, people talk about screams or the sound of rushing air but there's ways to counter such and they're discussed in numerous articles on the subject matter.

Words.

No, comparing cartilage is fine. It's like comparing our skin to that of a pigs, which is why they're used in wound ballistic testing alongside ballistic gel. You missed the whole sentence which also talked about humans and how cartilage can be cut through. When people talk about a 'struggle' during this event, realize that involves what we're discussing: a knife going through your neck and not being static but being maneuvered.

Stabbed involves a thrust. That doesn't mean you can't thrust a knife during this event, knife thrusts would be good to see in-game; especially if you wanted a dynamic system where-by you can use the knife freely instead of being locked into an animation upon condition. The point was that you can cut, slice, chop, whatever words you want to use to describe certain techniques, you can go all the way to bone, all the way to the spine.

You can have a single area of penetration but once the object moves within that created cavity it causes extensive damage to the surrounding tissue. The point of these 'low velocity penetrating injuries' you hear about normally is two idiots in a street fight, one gets stabbed quick and done. In this case it's the opposite, it's co-ordinated and methodical, in a specific anatomical location with technique to cause the most damage, not a simple singular stab. The 'instant kill' for general I fully agree with is stupidity, but if you saw the chart I posted before you can almost instantaneously lose consciousness, some wounds types taking less than 2 seconds and others less than 1 second.

It's medically btw.

If you could combine MGO CQC fighting techniques with Arma, it would probably be the best game in the world. Ever.

All we need is an electric stun knife and a handfull of tranquilliser darts.

I had to look this up and they have the concept spot on. Give it the next sequel and it'll be great. Currently judging via videos it looks a bit... buggy and awkward. Then again... all MP combat does at some point.

Personally i am a fan of melee combat system and i am willing to help out on animations side whoever will be taking on the knives (or any kind of melee weapon for that matter) :))

You heard it here modders!

Edited April 4, 2013 by Rye

[Jex 1]

You state everything like it's a fact and you define the airway in two different contexts. That statement sounds like you cannot die from having your throat slit... or at least cannot die from having it slit 'only once'. "Just one cut", seriously? The OJ murder case was a cut that went all the way to the spine. If you apply one variable of number of 'cuts' or 'slits' then it's just a pointless argument. You're basing your argument off nothing of substance. You don't account for depth, for anatomical location, for technique, for anything that involves killing with a knife which proves lack of understanding.

"Because of the cartilage", yes, you have cartilage around the trachea in certain areas. You can slice through cartilage and ligament, I guess you've never butchered a turkey or have seen a beheading video. Don't forget the carotid arteries and the jugular vein also, it's not the 'cartilage is where it's at' statement; rapid blood loss and blood filing into your airway isn't 'just' anything.

Same for breaking someones neck? Not even going to go there.

LMAO

To anyone that thinks slitting someones throat or breaking their neck is easy, the spec ops get "trained ((edit: specifically to sneak up and kill people))" to do this, that they have magic silent boots that allow them to be ghosts and sneak around unnoticed watches movies.

Those who know better actually served.

[rye1 21]

Who mentioned easy? You obviously just perceived that, probably because you didn't read. How about you read some articles or books made by the said Spec Ops and I'll let them do the talking. That's right, if you came at me with an actual argument I might be inclined to take offense.

[Jex 1]

Who mentioned easy? You obviously just perceived that, probably because you didn't read. How about you read some articles or books made by the said Spec Ops and I'll let them do the talking. That's right, if you came at me with an actual argument I might be inclined to take offense.

You don't have an argument. There's no easy way to code in the mechanics of "stealth kills" and they would, in reality, be very hard to pull off since the other guy is going to put up a fight.

Like I said, it's talk from people that watch movies and read books from unverified sources and never served in the armed forces in any capacity.

It's hilarious to think there are training camps where they have guys standing looking away and the other guys trying to tippy-toe up to them.

[rye1 21]

If you're American, your Army does the same.

Australian, the same.

Britain, the same.

Get the trend?

Every armed forces has some degree of it encompassed into their training. You could easily say more so in recce/SF and I'd be inclined to agree. And yeah, some 'training camps' do such, sentry killing being the biggest factor there. Not tip-toe though, that's just silly, that's nothing to do with stealth.

Books, articles. What you want - peer reviewed? Field manual? It's all there. You just need to look it up. Oh wait, field manuals are written by guys in the armed forces but don't do crap, right? Your next argument. Isn't it good then when guys who have served and have combat experience write their own articles? What else are you going to argue? You've obviously never looked into it. That's quite dogmatic.

We've already talked about other games that are getting a good grasp on the mechanics and how if melee was implemented here, sure, it would probably be poor and need work but modders could at least use that base animation.

[Jex 1]

Every armed force DO NOT have it to some degree in their training full stop.

You're talking out of your ass.

[samco 1]

Every armed force DO NOT have it to some degree in their training full stop.

You're talking out of your ass.

you complained before about lack of arguments ? And THIS is your argument ? Please......