Stealth Kills?

[PuFu 4600]

@Blackfox34: how old are you mate? Did you have your basic military training yet?

[Blackfox34 14]

Combine this with the SS's of the Underwater diving lead me to believe there will be a higher focus on stealth, since thats one of the only purposes why you would need to have that in the game.

Why go up close when you can take the far away shot? What if you miss and blow your chance?

Why go underwater when you can take a helicopter in? Stealth.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Operative;1928828']You are a specialized super soldier from UK (yeah' date=' why no UK forces in the SSs?), you can hit people from hundred meters away, you may have all the equipment you want, it takes a few seconds to attach a suppressor to the barrel of most guns. Why would you want to sneak around so you can make a kill only some meters away if you can make a "safer" kill hundred meters away?[/quote']

Mmmm...

(1) Because its a NEW game which can offer NEW abilities to players

(2) Because its a moddable game which allows lot's of things, the more the vanilla engines offers, the better it is

[hamm 10]

I can see several uses for stealth kills with a knife or just breaking necks especially in tactical TvTs.

[Hedo 10]

I know this has been said many times, but: How many times did you have an opportunity to do a stealth kill in Arma? (scripted situations don't count) Even if the enemy didn't hear you coming from behind...

I'm sure this is on BIS' list of "nice to have things", but I don't see many reasons for implementing it.

[aidas2 10]

People these days play too much cod and envision knife as some uber leet awesum special kill that everyone will praise you for. In Arma you might need to use it one or two times, depending on situation, it doesn't mean that you will always run around with knife in ur hand, doing 360 jumps and knifing everyone or throwing knifes at everyone... The campaing is about stealth, so if you loose your gun, the only way to get one is take from the enemy, you aint gonna kick him in the balls. The main char is a SBS guy so he will know how to handle a knife or melee combat and use it whenever he can.

Same logic can be applied to diving aswell. Why add it? It was never in arma so why add it now? It wont give you anything besides maybe one or two missions anyway.

Edited May 19, 2011 by aidas2

[Blackfox34 14]

Mods are good and all, but most (not saying all of them) are the same quality as BIS produce. These guys are the pros and get paid to spend there time making models and features, whereas many of us do not, so naturally most of there material is better looking.

Underwater diving is not a huge feature everyone can jizz about, it's small but cool. So is stealth/stealth kills.

You do not need to use them for every situation, but you could have fun with missons where you would need to use stealth. That's all I want it for. FUN.

[-GR-Operative 10]

Combine this with the SS's of the Underwater diving lead me to believe there will be a higher focus on stealth, since thats one of the only purposes why you would need to have that in the game.

Why go up close when you can take the far away shot? What if you miss and blow your chance?

Why go underwater when you can take a helicopter in? Stealth.

Dude, did you see, let say, SBS in action? Or any SF combat/training footage.

These soldiers are not trained this way, it's not that they must not miss, they simply don't miss.

Hiting targets some hundred meter away (let say 200-250m) is not hard for them, even with unmagnified optics.

The knife in military service is great... to open cans!

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

The campaing is about stealth, so if you loose your gun, the only way to get one is take from the enemy, you aint gonna kick him in the balls.

Lose you gun? Are you seriously?

You know trigger discipline? Counting the rounds you shot so you know how many rounds are left?

If you are running out of ammo, why don't you actually shot an enemy down! You are, after all, holding a gun! You kill him, and grab his gun, simply that.

Also, you are SBS, if you shot is to kill. You may go back to some point where you've previously killed some enemy and take his weapon.

[PuFu 4600]

You do not need to use them for every situation, but you could have fun with missons where you would need to use stealth. That's all I want it for. FUN.

If you want FUN go budy up with Sion and play FPRR...

PLUS, please do me a favor and envision for me how a knife could be implemented in ArmaX please...

[aidas2 10]

Lose you gun? Are you seriously?

You know trigger discipline? Counting the rounds you shot so you know how many rounds are left?

If you are running out of ammo, why don't you actually shot an enemy down! You are, after all, holding a gun! You kill him, and grab his gun, simply that.

Also, you are SBS, if you shot is to kill. You may go back to some point where you've previously killed some enemy and take his weapon.

You realize that the campaign starts after a failed mission and you washed ashore in enemy teritory with nothing? The only thing that you might still have is a pistol or a knife...

Diving will most likely be used as much as a knife would be. Just for some mission intro eyecandy. See no problem in implementing atleast a scripted preanimated knife kill into the start of the first mission.

Edited May 19, 2011 by aidas2

[froggyluv 2136]

Hmmm. I've always favored a rifle-butt as that seems the most realistic.

Problem with 1 button push sneaky ninja neck-breaks/throat slits is once that animation goes into effect -what? no chance for counter 1 button defence such as: wrist lock or shoulder throw into armbar into arm triangle into reversal into bumpn'roll into leglock ................

If they get a somewhat realistic melee action then great -but a 1 button "I Win!" attack..then no.

[ProfTournesol 956]

PLUS, please do me a favor and envision for me how a knife could be implemented in ArmaX please...

Very easily, as it was (half) implemeted in OFP : an anim, a strike, that's all.

[HyperU2 11]

I happily used a knife (thanks SLX) to save my butt after running out of ammo because six 9mm rounds to the chest wasn't enough to stop a bad guy.

[Cyteless 10]

I happily used a knife (thanks SLX) to save my butt after running out of ammo because six 9mm rounds to the chest wasn't enough to stop a bad guy.

Was it a Russian you were shooting? Because IIRC they use body armour.

[HyperU2 11]

Was it a Russian you were shooting? Because IIRC they use body armour.

Insurgent in Baghdad, he had Tshirt armor. It's pretty typical with pistol ammo. SLX can make them harder to kill too with the wounding system.

[froggyluv 2136]

I happily used a knife (thanks SLX) to save my butt after running out of ammo because six 9mm rounds to the chest wasn't enough to stop a bad guy.

LOL -yes, I once saw two Russians beating my "2" to death with shovels in SLX -priceless!!!

The problem is that I could get many kills with the SLX knife due to AI's inability to adjust to me in very CQB -if that is fixed, well then thats another story :)

[HyperU2 11]

LOL -yes, I once saw two Russians beating my "2" to death with shovels in SLX -priceless!!!

The problem is that I could get many kills with the SLX knife due to AI's inability to adjust to me in very CQB -if that is fixed, well then thats another story :)

Well I frequently set up scenarios in the editor to arrange knife kills for videos and they would most often shoot me early, still worth having the option.

[froggyluv 2136]

Yeah, I also haven't tried SLX since before the much improved AI beta/patches -I'm definitely in favor of working it out so that the player doesn't have to stand there with his thumb up his a$$ if caught reloading.

[PuFu 4600]

Very easily, as it was (half) implemeted in OFP : an anim, a strike, that's all.

well, that is something that exactly the same as every other COD game or clone out there -> knife=instant kill, which we both know it is untrue.

The alternative is action based on situation, which leads to a scripted behavior in the end, with no chance on the other side to contra-attack

You want knifes, i couldn't care less, as long as its implementation is properly done.

[aidas2 10]

well, that is something that exactly the same as every other COD game or clone out there -> knife=instant kill, which we both know it is untrue.

The alternative is action based on situation, which leads to a scripted behavior in the end, with no chance on the other side to contra-attack

You want knifes, i couldn't care less, as long as its implementation is properly done.

Why are you even here if you don't care? And please share your opinion on how to properly implement knifes then... You seem to know everything about knifes here. You won't just go stabbing them in the back till they die, you play as a SBS operator, he will most likely slit your throat or something, wheter you aproach unsuspected or get shot is the players concern.

Edited May 19, 2011 by aidas2

[ProfTournesol 956]

well, that is something that exactly the same as every other COD game or clone out there -> knife=instant kill, which we both know it is untrue.

The alternative is action based on situation, which leads to a scripted behavior in the end, with no chance on the other side to contra-attack

You want knifes, i couldn't care less, as long as its implementation is properly done.

Well "instant kill" is a little exagerated : knife strike => dammage, the more the unit is close to you, the more dammage is inflicted. So you gotta sneak very close to "kill". Thus you can implement other types of strikes : bayonet, woodstick etc. I'm not for special "cut throat animation" as in splinter cell.

[aus_twisted 0]

This is how the Stealth kills will look in ArmA 3, no knife needed.

Not so stealthy though when the guy is screaming after his head was ripped off lol

[liquidpinky 11]

The alternative is action based on situation, which leads to a scripted behavior in the end, with no chance on the other side to contra-attack

Unless they go as far as Metal Gear 4 style CQC but I would imagine that to not be the case as A3 would be complicated enough.

[PuFu 4600]

Why are you even here if you don't care?

Because i care HOW it is implemented, thank you

You won't just go stabbing them in the back till they die, you play as a SBS operator, he will most likely slit your throat or something, wheter you aproach unsuspected or get shot is the players concern.

Yes, i definitely agree with you on the fact that the knife needs to be used very precise in order to be effective, especially against a target that has a body armor. Plus, stabbing in the back will most likely have the target scream in pain, which is anything but stealthy.

My POINT: I really don't know of a proper way to get a knife implemented, that would suite both the simulation and the gaming ends of this future title, that is why i would prefer to not have implemented at all than badly.

Note: you play as a SBS operator in the campaign. If such a feature is to be implemented it will be for all other custom missions, as well as MP. Otherwise, it is purely scripted (and that is easily achievable)

Well "instant kill" is a little exagerated : knife strike => dammage, the more the unit is close to you, the more dammage is inflicted. So you gotta sneak very close to "kill". Thus you can implement other types of strikes : bayonet, woodstick etc. I'm not for special "cut throat animation" as in splinter cell.

see above

[Bas92 10]

Agreed. I'd rather have no knife kill at all than a badly working knife kill.

If done right, the knife kill should only work when you approach an enemy from behind or in his flank. And you should aim at his throat/head.

And that sounds like it's hard to script and easy to become buggy.