PvP Animation replacement/enhancement pack

[smookie 11]

@galzohar

In OFP it used to crash the server... which was good, i suppose. Now you can use it while the others will not see your animations (sometimes you will look like not doing anything, but sometimes they will see you jogging and firing). The moment i work out how to deal with this, I will try to implement this.

@Hornet

Urban proning - this is quite connected with the engine limitation and the fact that whenever i rotate the gun around the z axis (well bascially perpendicular to the aiming axis) i get the same mistake. So well... can't fix it. Normally we play with crosshair on and it doesn't bother us that much.

About the visual effects - I am constantly working on improving visuals but since I do not own nor can afford renting a motion capture studio nor even do I have a lot of experience with animating any characters at all (i am not even an IT guy) - this may stay "woodly" for quite long.

[galzohar 31]

So basically it will be messed up if not everyone have it, so need to require either everyone to have it?

If you want I have been using scripted solutions that check for whether or not an addon is running on the server or not and kick the client if he's not running it as well. Tested and working for both ACRE and ACE, however I implemented it through the mission, not addon, so to include it in an addon it would take a bit of extra work from you (though shouldn't be anything too complicated).

As for scripts I'm not sure why you say they cause lag. Currently scripts have a preset limited CPU% that they are allowed to use so cannot really lower your FPS with scripts (except for non-schedueled scripts, but normally you either wouldn't use those or would use them for very extremely small pieces of code). Of course if there are a lot of scripts running then they won't manage to do everything they want to do during the limited time they get to run, and thus you will get some "script lag", however, unless there are some messed up scripts running, this shouldn't be an issue.

Is there a manual with a list of all the new keys/combinations that one needs to know in order to use everything you added?

Also you may want to keep the first post updated with all the latest stuff, makes everything easier to find for those who don't constantly keep track of the thread.

Edited April 9, 2011 by galzohar

[Hornet_it 10]

@Hornet

Urban proning - this is quite connected with the engine limitation and the fact that whenever i rotate the gun around the z axis (well bascially perpendicular to the aiming axis) i get the same mistake. So well... can't fix it. Normally we play with crosshair on and it doesn't bother us that much.

About the visual effects - I am constantly working on improving visuals but since I do not own nor can afford renting a motion capture studio nor even do I have a lot of experience with animating any characters at all (i am not even an IT guy) - this may stay "woodly" for quite long.

Lol roger that, about the urban proning i think we will training to fire in that position looking trough the iron sight (not a big problem, actually a little issue created by good point of view with not too much exposure -> "realistic" as we like to play :cool:)

About the woodly animation i really understand your problems, it was meant to be a "report o a minor or less than a minor issue" :p

And another thing I want to report, don't read about that but when i change weapon and got the pistol (with rifle lowered) with your animation i can only go forward nor left/right... It's deliberate or missing some animations those have to be implemented?

@galzohar: the "manual" is the text file with also the changelog

Regards,

H.

[galzohar 31]

Ah, didn't see it, thx

[smookie 11]

I will be looking into the compatibility issue more closely so any help in this field is appreciated.

Scripts + animations are not the best combination to be honest and this is because I can imagine situations where something will not work as it should and one guy will be doing blindfire while the other will not see him do that and consequently will get killed "from nowhere" (due to script failure or not working as fast as possible). I mentioned it already - while it does not matter that much when you play the so called realistic PvP games where one bit could take a few hours, it has massive impact during dynamic gaming. And if something doesn't trigger right (or at right time) one can only get frustrated. I believe doing this in the way I do eliminates such possible problems.

As for manual - changelog file supplies you with basic controls. As soon as I have enough time or find someone willing to help, I will prepare an introductional mission that will allow you to calibrate and test out settings in game (similiar to BIS training missions).

@Hornet

Yes, the animations for pistol walking are WIP and should be released in 0.19.

[galzohar 31]

Of course stuff that can be done without scripting is probably better done without scripting, but I wouldn't immediately rule out a feature because implementing it would require a few lines of code to run.

In any case, so far I've noticed that jogging with your weapon up gets extremely crazy when your stamina is low (as in, after you've been sprinting around for a while). That is, the weapon bounces all over the screen, with shots hitting the floor and stuff because it jumps around THAT much. Might want to tone that down to more reasonable levels. To reproduce this just run for 1-2 minutes straight (with weapon down), and then try to run with weapon up. It just looks wrong IMO ;)

When the weapon is raised, why is it at the center of the screen? Also, when you raise it, it goes up to the "normal" (vanilla) position and then "warps" to the new center position. Looks kinda weird.

Trying to raise the weapon while jogging seems to sometimes result in a "roll". Why? Also, while rolling the camera keeps looking forward (instead of rolling) which is a bit weird. Additionally, rolling seems to drain way too much stamina.

The "lower head" stuff would probably be a bit more useful if you would still end up looking somewhat forward. Currently it sticks your view into the ground and you have to move your view way up to compensate if you want to see anything, and then when you go back to normal stance (crouch/stand) your weapon points at the sky. Would probably be more natural to use if the view would still point more or less forward when those are used.

What's the "launcher standing/crouching/prone"? Also, is it possible to change it so weapon hangs in the front rather than put on back when using a launcher, making the transitions overall a bit faster? And even more awesome if you could make it compatible with ACE disposable launcher system?

Edited April 9, 2011 by galzohar

[Inkompetent 0]

When the weapon is raised, why is it at the center of the screen?

Because the head position is changed to be tilted to the side, looking over the weapon.

[galzohar 31]

Still, it looks like you're closing the left eye, which is something you wouldn't do, at least while not actually aiming the weapon. Since we can't actually make realistic 2-eye view, the best compromise IMO is what we already had in vanilla. However if he still wishes to keep it in the center, at least the "raise weapon" 1st person animation needs some fixing, and possibly bringing the weapon higher up, somewhere in between where it is now to where it is with ACE's "CQB sights" position (for weapons with the regular ACOG that has no CQB sights).

Edited April 9, 2011 by galzohar

[Fox '09 14]

Been testing it for a few hours, I'm very impressed. I really like the pistol animation where the rifle is hung on the side.

earlier in the thread there was a discussion regarding having your rifle hugged to your chest rather than down low, and how it was difficult to do, i thought perhaps this may be a decent alternative:

http://images.defensetech.org/images/SCAR-rangers.jpg

perhaps use walking animations and have the player walk with the rifle just hanging? It's not popular but it may be a good alternative. It could also be in the same position as it is in the pistol anim.

[Defunkt 431]

These are very good and your choices vis-a-vis sticking to the engine's own animation system (sans-scripts) and your selections for the control system are excellent. I think with a little more refinement these could become quite ubiquitous. A couple of suggestions:

1. It's a little unfortunate that where for the most part this addon doesn't change default actions (but rather makes more actions available) Jog/Run is the exception. With the addon loaded you have to use Turbo- to get back to the original Run. IMHO it would be better (and reduce barriers to adoption) if all default behaviours remain unchanged and you instead used the Turbo- combo to get Jog. I think this is also more logical in respect of the fact that Jog should be between Walk and Run (both of which use the forward bind) and in this fashion you would access that step between from either using the Turbo- modifier.

2. It struck me as counter-intuitive to have to use the opposite bind to un-urban prone (Turbo-Left to return after Turbo-Right). Even if that remains the case you should be able to 'un-toggle' with the same bind. (Turbo-Right to return after Turbo-Right as well), this is how the default toggles work (i.e. Toggle Lean Left/Right).

Very good work.

[galzohar 31]

If you lower your weapon while running you get the jog. No need for turbo (but you do need to define a "lower weapon" key if you don't have it defined, since before this addon the "lower weapon" key wasn't very useful). Turbo actually does the same as sprint when walking forward, but the sprint can be activated both ways (turbo and old sprint key).

Prone also un-does the urban prone, so that was intuitive enough for me.

[smookie 11]

@Defunkt

1. point has been explained by galzohar. The modes right now are Walk - Fast-Walk - Jog - Sprint and I am not really convinced you would naturally first start to jog and then go into fast-walk rather than do it the other way round.

2. That's very interesting because when my beta-testers were having it the way you would like it to be, they were very confused and thats one of the reason i have changed it to the way it is now. Either way, you can still press prone/crouch/stand and quickly get up.

@galzohar

This is the best I can do at the moment without scripts to simulate unability to aim well while in fast pace and weapon high. Await better solutions in future :). The weapon is in the center for two reasons - first one is to make the soldiers look more warrior like (:)) with their eyes close to the gun and ready to fire, the other reason is the fact that whenever you look around the corner, you can see considerably more when using optics. With having weapon close to center this problem is drastically supressed (no need to bring up sights).

As far as the launcher animations are concerned - well it is possible to make static stances and even a bit of animations, however, I am not signing up for reanimating whole walking/running in all stances. It's just too much.

In either case, the work will keep coming.

[Tisman 10]

Hello and first of all, great work and thanks for letting the whole community test it.

I have a small gripe though:

Could you make it possible to bring up the sights when jogging with the weapon up? I realise that this addon is made primarily with people who play with the crosshair on in mind, but it can be a great addition to anybody and now when entering a room i'm stuck with 2 choices, either entering fast with absolutely no way to aim since i play without the crosshairs and i can' t bring up the sights (actually i can but it switches me to the slow walk), or entering with the sights up but while walking very slowly which isn' t ideal when trying to make a dynamic entry after having thrown a flashbang inside the room. (ACE mod).

So if you could make it so that bringing the sights up doesn't automatically switch to the slow walk it would be great.

I' m also wondering about one thing: It is normal that while standing still or crouching or walking with the tactical walk, the character holds his weapon at about the height of his biceps,not looking through the sights and that while jogging with the weapon up he has it shouldered, with the sights at eye level? Shouldn' t it be the opposite?

Anyway thank you very much for this great addon.

Edit: I found out that the mod isn' t compatible with one of the "trueuser" pbos from the truemods. one of the trueusers pbos makes it impossible to shoot while walking or when jogging with the weapon up, sometime it' s one sometimes it' s the other, it depends of which trueuser pbo' s are loaded. I' ll let you know if i can pinpoint which one of the pbos is causing the conflict.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Tisman

[Gunter Severloh 3972]

Fantastic work!

Been testing this out and I am really enjoying the more optional ways to lean or peak around corners even blind fire, it really adds to the game.

I have tested this in sp, mp hosted, and on my gameserver, and the anim work np.

Was wondering other then maybe tweaking what your currently working on, what are your plans for things in the future Smookie?

[Inkompetent 0]

I have a small gripe though:

Could you make it possible to bring up the sights when jogging with the weapon up? I realise that this addon is made primarily with people who play with the crosshair on in mind, but it can be a great addition to anybody and now when entering a room i'm stuck with 2 choices, either entering fast with absolutely no way to aim since i play without the crosshairs and i can' t bring up the sights (actually i can but it switches me to the slow walk), or entering with the sights up but while walking very slowly which isn' t ideal when trying to make a dynamic entry after having thrown a flashbang inside the room. (ACE mod).

Well, since when would it really be possible to look through the sights when jogging with the weapon at high ready? Quite good restriction if you ask me.

And if the gripe is mainly with room-clearing, shouldn't the new more centered weapon be enough to get the shots roughly where you want them anyway, unless you use an Enfield which can't semi auto fire?

[galzohar 31]

IRL you would pretty much never actually try to line up the sights while moving around, but rather have the "eyes above weapon" thing we have right now (though I still think if the weapon is centered like that it should be a bit higher up too, right now it looks kind of like it's coming out of the lower part of the chest in 1st person view). In any case after some getting used to the game you no longer really care where the weapon is when it comes to actually hitting stuff, since you just get used to aiming with the center of your screen anyway (which also works the same for all weapons).

As for the massive shaking, the shaking is actually reasonable when you jog most of the time, it's just the stamina effect that is way overdone. It's ok (and good!) to have it shake more when you're more tired, but right now it's overdone by quite a lot, getting to the point where it shakes so much that the weapon aims as much as 30 degrees (or more?) to the side/up/down! It looks like it's just a matter of tweaking some values.

[Tisman 10]

Well, since when would it really be possible to look through the sights when jogging with the weapon at high ready? Quite good restriction if you ask me.

IRL you would pretty much never actually try to line up the sights while moving around, but rather have the "eyes above weapon"

I realise that, but in real life, in a weapon shouldered and eyes above the weapon position you would still get a much better feel of where you are aiming than what we have right now unsighted, anyway please don' t take it wrongly but i don' t want to restart here that debate that has been debated a thousand times on these forums.

I was just asking if it would be possible because right now when playing without crosshair it is very hard to know where you are aiming, harder than it would be in real life and i believe that being able to line up your sights without any zoom as in the slx mod for example is a good compromise.

[smookie 11]

I am pretty sure this is what the crosshair is all about - to recompensate the lack of feel and view depth you have in the game (this is why I also do not understand why realism strives for disabling it).

About future work, this is what I would like to keep secret, but there are some points on my list that can be revealed :)

- Pistol walking animation (in all directions)

- Launcher transition animations

- Entirely reworked combat stances transition

- Interpolation rather than connection for running animations

- Peeking around the corner (without weapon in your sights)

- Back to wall animations

- Controls alternative config

Edited April 10, 2011 by Smookie

[ArmAriffic 10]

i like the lying down animation and the hoping over while running animations

[roberthammer 582]

Nice work Smookie :)

btw can you make Walking with Sights Up with more steadier aim ,because original animation shakes and bounces too much

[smookie 11]

Nice work Smookie :)

btw can you make Walking with Sights Up with more steadier aim ,because original animation shakes and bounces too much

release 0.19 :)

[roberthammer 582]

release 0.19 :)

Heh cool :cool:

[smookie 11]

BTW There are also some "hidden" features like possibility to lean while throwing a nade (working!).

[acknowledge 10]

Hey smookie, what do you think of this crosshair addon?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=80358

[galzohar 31]

Basically since in-game I can aim without sights better than RL soldiers can, I don't see why having a crosshair is more realistic than not having it. Remember that IRL unsighted shooting is pretty useless past 25m and even at 25m it's not all that great, and in-game you rarely ever engage anyone at those ranges due to how the terrain is like on most islands. Not that it matters much, since either way (crosshair or not), lining up the sights should only be possible while walking slowly.

The weapon shake while running does seem reasonable initially, when your soldier is not tired, but when he is tired (stamina close to fully drained, after running for a while) it seems quite extreme, at least with ACE running. Inaccurate is fine, but I shoudln't be so inaccurate that I hit the ground in front of me...

Edited April 10, 2011 by galzohar