Post battle behaviour

[Vroemmm 10]

One of the things that I find most disturbing after a battle in SP is that your platoon is just standing still doing nothing after they shot the enemy down.

Shouting "cleared" is the most unsatisfying behaviour after you lost several comrades in combat. Wouldn't it be great if your company could celebrates victory after a battle in a more animated fashion or faces the insane madness of war as they come to realize they killed fellow men; young fathers, husbands, lost sons for whom there mother is grieving.

A lot of war movies adress this post battle aspect. But arma2 as military simulator is lacking this kind of immersion. Morale is a key element in winning battles anyway but at this aspect of the game BIS left us in the woods.

besides receiving points.

In my view it would make a whole difference if you would win a battle that will reward you with post battle behaviour that is dynamic on the circumstances. I know BIS supports various animations so it would be great if someone can think of making some sort of .sqf file where animations for your platoon are triggered after achieving certain objectives. That could be reaching a certain waypoint, achieving your primary objective or killing bogies. Also getting promoted on the battlefield to a higher rank is one of the things that could it make it more challeging to go for the extra mile in arma2. For instance saving your buddy's life by dragging him out of a hotspot is not all rewarded by your team, superiors or your saved buddy.

So I wil call upon those technical skilled arma2 fans that would like to discuss their ideas for building scripts that will simulate dynamic post battle behaviour.

- Vroemmm

[st3rv 10]

This will need moving to addon requests thread but you've got a good point with it, the thing is, when you make a mission typically you'd get INSERTION,MOVE TO OBJECTIVES,EXTRACTION with very little time between the latter so you don't have time to mope over dead bad guys.

However, if the ambient civilian module created families of people, some of whom are Civilian and others who are Enemies, it would be interesting to see the families mourn the loss of their kin and perhaps develop a hostility towards the people who killed them.

A situation that was featured in a documentary about US Marines in Afghanistan might perhaps illustrate what I mean a bit better. If I remember correctly it was called "Dispatches: Bravo's Deadly Mission" and was aired on Channel 4 a few weeks back.

There was a part in which the Marines had killed an insurgent and asked the villagers "are there any other taliban in this area?"

They replied "no no there is no one else, and neither was he, they made him fight, he didn't want to"

The documentary pretty much cut off filming that particular family soon after but it was a very insightful thing to observe bringing an entirely new dynamic to Guerilla Warfare.

[pre-Vet 10]

would be nice if civilians would go in their homes.

As said, between the insertion the TIC and extration there is to much happening before things are realized and the adrenaline keeps the feeling away. offcourse everyone still has a job to do. on the base (wich is after the game mission ends mostly) the reaction comes.

Would be nice to be able to medevac heavily wounded and fallen comrades as you leave no one behind, breathing or not.

[Jelliz 10]

A lot of war movies adress this post battle aspect. But arma2 as military simulator is lacking this kind of immersion. Morale is a key element in winning battles anyway but at this aspect of the game BIS left us in the woods.

BIS has to maintain the balance between simulation and fun. This is something that the community should do. It can also be scripted by the mission maker.

Like for instance, once the group goes from "COMBAT" to "AWARE", a random dance animation can be triggered for about 30 seconds and then back to normal.

MEDEVAC i think has already been done as a module, but i dont recall the details as to how it works.

[soldier2390 0]

yes somthing like this is very much needed! for example think of getting inserted outside a village, then as soon as stuff goes down(like a gunfight\ambush\ect.)...say a civy gets killed, then the "familiy or who ever "said" dead civy was grouped with(by module like discribed above) would then run over to the dead civy and "morn" him(idk like...crouch over the body and yell stuff..ext) like what will happen in a real life senario! then depending on who shot the civy(blufor\opfor)they would act according...either if possibly pick up a weapon..or simply run away. or do whatever seems likly that a real civy would do!

also....yeah most..well some of this can be limited to being made in the editor..theres still a few points that need to be looked at. first im not a mission maker persay, but i make many mission inwhich i use for my own personal use and its no fun when everything is scripted cause you know whats going to happen! i know iknow, someones gonna come in and say..well use other peoples missions, but i dont want too...i like the missions i make(not that i dont like others) and i like making them how i want! and for me thats the whole main reason i have played OFP\A1\A2! so it would be nice to have my missions more random, just like in rl!

so think of it like this, in real life as a commander(or some sorta leader) you will most liky plan out your mission(as you would in game) but yet what that mission will turn into or how it may change depending on the situation! that stuff is random cause in rl you have no to limited control of what will happen, or what others will do! thats what im trying to get out of arma!!!

Edited October 19, 2010 by soldier2390

[Vroemmm 10]

yes somthing like this is very much needed! for so it would be nice to have my missions more random, just like in rl!

If was thinking in the same direction. So away from standard scripts that are build into the mission itself. My thoughts were more directed at some sort of module that you can insert that will kick in and do some random actions. The module for instance can tap into a large database where all various custom animations are stored and use a set of animations depending on the situation at hand. Don't know if that is possible but at least I want to hint some addons/mod makers to this possibility.

Of course this is a difficult concept. When using the civie examples mentioned in the feedback I received you would have to know the social relationships or kinship relations between the various civies. This in order to determine how morale and emotions are going to be effected if one or several of the civies (in case of a mass execution) are murdered.

My thoughts are to make arma2 a more lifelike experience. I think in some ways GTAIV succeeded in giving you the impression that you are in a city and your actions have an influence on the way people react. As for now this immersion is totally lacking in arma2. Even proper human communication within your platoon is essentially very dull and robotic even with some additional addons.

[max power 21]

After a battle, all your squaddies should dance around and high five, and tell tales that embellish their exploits.

[Fox '09 14]

after a battle , i wish to annoy my terp

but yes .. i don't see a point in this. maybe shouting voices.. but we all know what talkative ai is like

Edited October 20, 2010 by Fox '09

[katipo66 94]

The point is Arma units lack in soul but shine in functionality

[pre-Vet 10]

MEDEVAC i think has already been done as a module, but i dont recall the details as to how it works.

Yeah the module is pretty nice, but it only drops a medic to patch you up and doesnt take the wounded or dead. right now I just let them "Hide Body" so its a little more realistic.

I dont think emotions would contribute anything to the game and I dont think dancing US Army soldiers after shooting people in the face is the picture BIS wants to draw of the forces overseas.

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

i think that would be great,.

but its allready done in harvest-red, your character allready shows emotions,..

like when u find the mass grave or when the docter is hanged.

i dont know if its possible to animate the characters the way u like for wat u have in mind.

correct me if im wrong but i believe u cant animate such things if its not allready ingame.

but i would love to see immersive missions like that.

boy sometimes i wish a had more time and patients to do such missions...

[wolfbite 8]

I have doubts that a special forces squad is going to go around weeping and doing the macarena after shooting an enemy squad that theyve been sent out to destroy... I think this is a bit of an annesasary request that can easily be scripted to an extent..

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

i understand your point..

but it gives the characters a personality.

like character A says sh#t the A10 almost dropped the bomb on our heads

and character B reacts, and asks character A to keep his mouth shut and focus

cause the enemy is right under their nose's (or something similar)

yes stuf like this could be implemented as i said its allready done

but bevore or after a battle and with animations, i think u can only use the animations who allready in the game.

with other words i think it isnt possible to make your own animations ??

[domokun 515]

I quite agree. The reason that most people game is because its interesting and, heaven forbid, fun. One of the best ways to grab someone' interest is to get them to relate. Relating to characters that act like robots unlikely (unless of course you're in a Spielberg film were all Wehrmacht are Nazis and therefore evil). Prolly the best example is Arma's awful voice acting. Pretty much everyone I've shown A2 is dead impressed (graphics, sound, AI, open world, etc.). That is until the characters start speaking. Then the disbelief isn't suspended, its reinforced!

Those who believe that war zones are simply divided into 2 clear-cut sides of emotionless automatons are being very unrealistic. Now, more than ever, wars are being fought in areas where civilians continue to live and work. Their reactions and those of the combatants are often under appreciated by those who simply count kills and wounded. In many cases the greatest casualties are not the physical injuries but the mental afflictions. Recent studies estimate PTSD levels in veterans running at 20-30%. Compare that with 3-10% physically injured and 0.5-1.5% killed.

You only have to look at the success of the Call of Duty tv series on platoon in Nam or Band of Brothers or the most recent effort, War in the Pacific, to see the importance of soldier's characters, their reactions and emotional development. Personally I think its a lofty but admirable goal. So I fully support any efforts in this direction. Way more than saw another 6 dozen more weapons/vehicles or whizz bang eye candy. Or maybe I'm just an 'ol git :-D

Edited October 20, 2010 by domokun

[dmarkwick 261]

One of the more realistic aspects of any post-battle scenario I would think would be the clean-up. Maybe some sort of automated body retrieval system, like a medical M113 that scoots around clearing up the mess. Plus, maybe an identification/tagging of your squad units who have fallen. It always seems to be slightly artificial in that when a squad member dies, you simply leave him behind without even a radio notification.

I know this sort of moves into the realm of "so realistic it stops being fun" if it were to get too involved, but I think the automation of body retrieval would be kind of cool.

[pre-Vet 10]

It always seems to be slightly artificial in that when a squad member dies, you simply leave him behind without even a radio notification.

I know this sort of moves into the realm of "so realistic it stops being fun" if it were to get too involved, but I think the automation of body retrieval would be kind of cool.

I totally agree, a body should be retrieved or taken with the platoon, and it adds more to a loss than just 1 rifle out of the fight, you are forced to clear a LZ and hold untill the body is RTB creating huge consequenses when you suffer losses.

At the moment I just tell myself it has to be post battle behaviour when the AI totally ignores my orders :p

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

yes thats wat the most people underestimate.

most girls/guys/soldiers underestimate the impact it leaves on a human being

when u see some ones head gets shot off or limbs scattered around on the streets

or that cute little boy/girl playing in the street with his sister gets blown to little pieces

after a while they get used to it they think..they see it all the time.

but dont forget the human brain doesnt forget,

and it takes time to get over these trauma's.

infact to cope with the things u have seen,

your brains start relive the sircumstance over and over again.

thats where the soldiers start getting ill they start getting the idea of being crazy.

but they are not, they cant help it its normal to react that way being a human but they see ptsd as a weaknes, so they keep their nose up back straith.

but dont forget everybody has his breakpoint its only a mather of time...

but now to stay on topic..

the conclusion is the characters realy need a personality maybe even a background for exsample where he live's wat he likes, age etc etc not realy movie like rambo style but just casual stuff.

and for single player user missions to give AI team m8's custom voices to replace the horrible robot like voices would be cool too.

[Vroemmm 10]

I quite agree. The reason that most people game. Personally I think its a lofty but admirable goal. So I fully support any efforts in this direction. Way more than saw another 6 dozen more weapons/vehicles or whizz bang eye candy. Or maybe I'm just an 'ol git :-D

I think you very well made my point across. It's about immersion not about the next weapon and vehicle addon that will make arma2 a very splendid game indeed!

I have been feen since Operation Flaspoint 1 came out. When I had more time way back then I even worked out a translating the OFP grid coordinates to real world meters. So it was possible to calculate grid positions to actual distances in meters in the game world. So if person A was shouting I am a grid "xyz" wou would know that it was about 100 meters apart. But way back then I realized OFP is so much more than just a shooter. Therefore I'm pushing the community to think a bit more out-of-the box in the "war" immersion aspect of the game.

I realize that a lot can be accomplished by scripting but of course a script is just something that is prescripted an in a sense predictable if you play the same mission. In real life a situation will always develop differently depending on the parameters and that is something worth while to investigate in ARMA2.

- Vroemmm

[Vroemmm 10]

For inspiration I have added some examples...at least sound...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ed_1206915472

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ce6_1201274537

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b3f_1198848753

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=78d_1193436703

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=00c_1193246284

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=208_1288042696

- Vroemmm

[drmidnight 10]

I have accomplished this with triggers. Not sure how one would go about it for a dynamic addon but as far as on the mission editor side of things it is quite easy.

[cyclone83 6]

Guess same way as RUG_AI or what it's called is the answer ;)

[-Snafu- 77]

One of the more realistic aspects of any post-battle scenario I would think would be the clean-up. Maybe some sort of automated body retrieval system, like a medical M113 that scoots around clearing up the mess. Plus, maybe an identification/tagging of your squad units who have fallen. It always seems to be slightly artificial in that when a squad member dies, you simply leave him behind without even a radio notification.

I know this sort of moves into the realm of "so realistic it stops being fun" if it were to get too involved, but I think the automation of body retrieval would be kind of cool.

IIRC I think the US Civil War mod for OFP had something similar to this. A couple medics with a stretcher would go and pick up the wounded then take them back to the field hospital. I'm sure I remember something like that, the stretcher bearers were definitely there.

[Vroemmm 10]

IIRC I think the US Civil War mod for OFP had something similar to this. A couple medics with a stretcher would go and pick up the wounded then take them back to the field hospital. I'm sure I remember something like that, the stretcher bearers were definitely there.

Interesting. With SLX installed you also have the option to be dragged from a hotzone to be patched up. But an actual medevac to a field hospital would be cool. Your teammates call in a chopper and you're transported to a field hospital for recovery. I assume everything has to be synched. Buddies drag you to the chopper and strecher bearers do have to pick you up when the chopper has landed.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I think this is one of the reasons I enjoy Far Cry 2. The A.I. in it dynamically reacts to situations with varying kinds of emotion.

I have long been calling for more HUMAN A.I. Just listen to an A.I. machinegunner sustain fire on an enemy unit. His pattern of fire is robotic. No random pauses, no random length of bursts, etc.

I'd like to see A.I. drop a live hand grenade on odd occasion.

I think fanboyism has required B.I. to focus too heavily on graphics, when OFP's biggest strengths were A.I. and gameplay.

Just once I would like to hear a wounded soldier screaming bloody murder so that it almost drives me insane.