Is it so hard to make userfriendly movements?

[SPC.Spets 21]

PLEASE NEVER CHANGE THE WAY THAT ARMA IS!!

The movement is fine, soldier control are fine. If I want to play with jumping monkeys and speedy gonzales, with a super strong fast as Flash and bulletproof like superman I have COD4 or BC2 already. Maybe the only thing ArmA needs for soldier control is a little tweak on the animations but that is not really important

[Smurf 12]

Something like Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, where you also "have a body" and exist in the world, or Americas Army 3 (sometimes it is WAY worst than ArmA) would be nice indeed. Those are less clunky than ArmA and yet believable, unlike COD\BF.

But I don´t see it happening in this engine, so its a dream for the next "Ultimate Military Simulator".

[Wolfstriked 11]

IMO just needs tweaks here and there.Ability to stop an animation to go back to previous weapon.Ability to drop/raise weapon without stopping.When you lean you move slower.They should tie this slower movement in with SHIFT.Weird how you can bring up optic and slow down further with SHIFT but it doesn't slow down sidestepping.I just feel like I wanna move slower alot with Arma2 and hence have less weapon movement and control of my placement.Instead it feels like when I want to move a few inches towards corner to peek out my character starts running and I have to stop movement/run stop movement etc.

[funkee 0]

Fully agree with OP. Movement (apart from performance) is the thing that i dont like the most in ArmA series. It feels kinda delayed and unsmooth. Another disadvantage is that you cant see your weapon when moving without aiming (the weapon just disappears in a strange way). Of coz you can see it pressing alt key and looking into the bottom, but thats not the same feeling.

The reason MW2 has so many servers and ArmA doesn't is because ArmA isn't a mainstream game.

You are wrong. I think that's just because of strange movement and poor performance. Some animations (especially bullet hit and falling down) also come off from many other games (like BF:BC2 or CoD:MW2).

Edited July 15, 2010 by funkee

[frederf 0]

Clunky and awkward is a bit of a feature to me. 40 pounds of junk strapped to you and nearly double your naked torso thickness is going to be awkward.

There are still some buggy things that could use changing like the occasional "walk 5 extra steps before going prone" thing and some more blended animations.

[Wolfstriked 11]

^^do you play with a narrow FOV?

[frederf 0]

I play with the default. The "walk then prone" bug seems to be related to having my weapon toggled at the low ready.

[reconteam 19]

Smoother movements and weapons collision on objects are not mutually exclusive guys. Look at the Red Orchestra 2 videos that have been released, that is what I believe ArmA2 should be aiming for.

[biggerdave 56]

I'mma go out an say this, but the apparent jerkyness in movements since OFP is due to the fact the player character is real, rather than in, say, Left 4 Dead, where the player character is just a point.

If you don't get that, essentially, what you the camera shows in ArmA.2 is the view from the characters eyes, the body you see is the view of the characters body. In almost every other game, what you see in first person is just a set of hands, if you can see a body, it's always added in afterwards. What other players see as "you", isn't really "you", it's just an animated model tied to your character, which is actually just a floating box.

This is a lot more realistic, because it means you can't just stop mid-step, as you'd be able to in other such engines. If you don't see where I'm coming from, go start up MW2, and see how long it takes you to stop once you let go of the W key (or analogue stick, if you're so inclined), you'll see you stop almost instantly, in ArmA.2, you don't stop until you would in reality.

BIS are quite aware of this "issue", and I'm just echoing the words from one of the ArmA.2 publicity films here.

[jblackrupert 14]

I don't have much trouble with outside walking but once you go inside or on a tower or chimney it's like you strapped on a pair of Frankenstein monster boots.

Double-tap left-ctrl does help but sometimes you need to be a little quicker.

[binkster 0]

I agree with the clunky feeling. Going from ofp to arma was hard to get used to... I think that is why so many COOP missions came to be. PvP was really not fun in ArmA. I remember being shot at and trying to move behind a building and it seemed i was in the clear but would still die.

ArmA2 and OA is better but still feels abit clunky. Seems there is a response time issue when hitting key.

[Wolfstriked 11]

I don't have much trouble with outside walking but once you go inside or on a tower or chimney it's like you strapped on a pair of Frankenstein monster boots.

:D I went up the tower at the palace in Zargsbad and get stuck where you can't aim down left or right.Basically all I could do was proceed forward until I saw where I entered from and went back down.At one point I looked at my screen and silently screamed ARGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

[4 IN 1 0]

I wouldnt say its unsmooth or delay given the fact that they have improved a lot since arma, there are a lots of rooms for improvememt, but I wouldnt expect a "magpul dynamic uhh-look-at-me style cool move"(eventhrough they do get a point)animation change. I have to say, however, that there are still some movement that is missing and all pistol related animation are damn ugly.

[maddogx 13]

:D I went up the tower at the palace in Zargsbad and get stuck where you can't aim down left or right.Basically all I could do was proceed forward until I saw where I entered from and went back down.At one point I looked at my screen and silently screamed ARGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Yeah, the root of this problem is the fact that character animations in Arma2 are just so damn stiff. It doesn't feel like controlling an actual person because they only really have two flexible "joints":

1. A "hinge joint" at the hip, allowing you to bend the upper torso back and forth.

2. A "ball joint" at the top of the neck, allowing you to control the head.

Everything else is completely rigid. If only there were some flexibility to soldier animations, it could feel so much more natural. At the very least they could start with adding an animation of lowering or raising your weapon when it would otherwise collide with geometry and thus block your movement. (Like trying to turn around in a tight space, as Wolfstriked described above.)

[frederf 0]

One of the best games to capture the clunky feeling of being in full "battle rattle" while still being smooth and unbuggy has to be GRAW. They really did nail the duality of it all. Plus, I mean what other game can you stand on your tip toes?

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Jeez, am I tired of all this whinging about the movement system. Practice, get used to its eccentricities, and learn to love it, because it's sure as hell not going to change in the next 5 seconds. It's not like the damn thing reverses your controls everytime the game switches on or randomly remaps your keys during gameplay. It's a known quantity. Learn to play with it.

People these days expect to get into a game and be an uberl337w@rch13f just because they once threw a throwing knife into someone's left eye in the final 2 seconds of an MW2 round. To this I say: woop de farking doo.

OFP, ArmA and ArmA 2 are primarily infantry simulators. This means that after running 500 metres wearing a weighed-down plate carrier you won't be able to stop on a goddamn dime and headshot a flea with a silenced pistol from a kilometre.

[liquidpinky 11]

Last time I ran our local obs course with an AR and patrol order, I found it hard (believe it or not) to stop on a dime, go prone and shoot a smiley face in a Russian, then alternately jump and teabag him.

Train more often then. :P

I agree though, this isn't an FPS twitch shootah and the current actions give you proper weight, but some polish on the animations would be nice.

[maddogx 13]

Jeez, am I tired of all this whinging about the movement system. Practice, get used to its eccentricities, and learn to love it, because it's sure as hell not going to change in the next 5 seconds. It's not like the damn thing reverses your controls everytime the game switches on or randomly remaps your keys during gameplay. It's a known quantity. Learn to play with it.

People these days expect to get into a game and be an uberl337w@rch13f just because they once threw a throwing knife into someone's left eye in the final 2 seconds of an MW2 round. To this I say: woop de farking doo.

OFP, ArmA and ArmA 2 are primarily infantry simulators. This means that after running 500 metres wearing a weighed-down plate carrier you won't be able to stop on a goddamn dime and headshot a flea with a silenced pistol from a kilometre. Last time I ran our local obs course with an AR and patrol order, I found it hard (believe it or not) to stop on a dime, go prone and shoot a smiley face in a Russian, then alternately jump and teabag him.

You have a very good point there, the animation system isn't going to change over night - but as Maruk said earlier, it certainly isn't perfect and they are willing to improve it.

Having played BIS games for the better part of a decade, I, like you, am used to the quirks of the animation system, but that doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be improved. Especially in those situations where a soldier in the game is unable to do something that would normally be easy, like Wolfstrikes example on the previous page, some changes to the system would be very welcome. :)

I agree though, this isn't an FPS twitch shootah and the current actions give you proper weight, but some polish on the animations would be nice.

^^ This.

[captjohn 10]

There is one aspect that makes it completely different from development perspective. In COD type of games you move without body, you are just a point in space with fake 3D gun shown on screen and your movement is not directly linked to any actual full body animation or movement.

I am not trying to say everything is perfect in our games but mostly trying to explain one major difference that has many consequences (some of them resulting in less smooth experience).

imagine CM (that other company's) CEO giving a response...im shocked!!!

[RaptoR-Swe 0]

Jeez, am I tired of all this whinging about the movement system. Practice, get used to its eccentricities, and learn to love it, because it's sure as hell not going to change in the next 5 seconds. It's not like the damn thing reverses your controls everytime the game switches on or randomly remaps your keys during gameplay. It's a known quantity. Learn to play with it.

People these days expect to get into a game and be an uberl337w@rch13f just because they once threw a throwing knife into someone's left eye in the final 2 seconds of an MW2 round. To this I say: woop de farking doo.

OFP, ArmA and ArmA 2 are primarily infantry simulators. This means that after running 500 metres wearing a weighed-down plate carrier you won't be able to stop on a goddamn dime and headshot a flea with a silenced pistol from a kilometre. Last time I ran our local obs course with an AR and patrol order, I found it hard (believe it or not) to stop on a dime, go prone and shoot a smiley face in a Russian, then alternately jump and teabag him.

Ok, if we go back towards the animations of ofp:res they were much more smoother, faster and more reactive. Which i think gave the game a much more wider audience. When arma came out the animations went from very good to crippled. They were so slow and unresponsive but also much more realistic. But this also lead to the fact that many who liked to compete in this game towards other players (yea i actually find it more stimulating than the AI) tossed it away. Such moments as Wolfstriked is talking about are moments i´ve also had - in PvP fight, which makes me an easy target and a frustrated one. Frustrated bc i think the evolution hasent gone forward in a userfriendly way.

I am not trying to make some crazy bunny hopping moves. But i am almost guarenteed that the people that embrace the animations of Arma1- Arma2OA are mostly coop players. There you can have the time and patience bc time doesent matter. in PvP time and points are key issues! and OFP had a much better area for us to compete in. So the animations we got since Arma1 has been such a kneecaping experience for all of us.

It would be intresting to know why they changed the animations in between ofp:res to arma1? If it was up to me i would bring back the OFP:res animations bc they were great in both PvP and in coop.

I think we loose alot of potential players the minute they realise they need an instruction showing them how to run. and players = money, and money leads to all of BI to make other great games and maybe even some money to them! They deserve it.

And on further notice, I think i´ve practised enough. :D

[Second 0]

Jeez, am I tired of all this whinging about the movement system. Practice, get used to its eccentricities, and learn to love it, because it's sure as hell not going to change in the next 5 seconds. It's not like the damn thing reverses your controls everytime the game switches on or randomly remaps your keys during gameplay. It's a known quantity. Learn to play with it.

...

To this I say: woop de farking doo.

This game has some long learning curve: Half year of ArmA didnt' work. Worst thing was that if i played OFP and then switched to ArmA i was ready to cut my wrists open. But luckily each time i understood to go back to COD-or-similar and felt that i start to enjoy my life once again (just kidding. Really i played Vietcong)

Problem in my opinion is that even when player can learn to live with the controls. However when player feels that he want's to play COD or some other gam elike OFP, and goes back to ArmA he will notice that ArmA is way much stiffer, even bugged. And it's not controls as much as animations and their transistions. Those small things like you don't know will character start running, jogging or walking.

True ArmA2 is already better. It's almost as good as how controlling character usually in shooters feels like. Buu-uut it could be better.

OFP, ArmA and ArmA 2 are primarily infantry simulators. This means that after running 500 metres wearing a weighed-down plate carrier you won't be able to stop on a goddamn dime and headshot a flea with a silenced pistol from a kilometre. Last time I ran our local obs course with an AR and patrol order, I found it hard (believe it or not) to stop on a dime, go prone and shoot a smiley face in a Russian, then alternately jump and teabag him.

Funniest thing for me is that i realized this whole control issue with ArmA after one recon/ranger exercise. Truly i hauled just about 20 kilograms of kit at worst if radio was issued to me. Which seemed to be issued to me quite often :mad:

[LJF 0]

Personally I love the movement system in ArmA2 :) So much more immersion, and I also love the guns clipping on objects, makes you think twice before bringing a sniper rifle to a CQB.

The only thing I don't like is there seems to be a lack of momentum, one minute you're carrying a full load and the next you're standing still and aiming perfectly, you should have to accelerate and decelerate, and I'd love to have to lean into a turn when sprinting.

[celery 8]

If the bugged and stiff animation system is supposed to simulate a soldier carrying 100 kg of stuff on his back as some people here claim, why are the animations the same for characters who carry next to nothing? Contrary to all logic, wielding a handgun makes the movements even stiffer as the animations take longer to start. For example, try to fine-tune your position at a window or throw a hand grenade.

[Sheepy 10]

This could of been a much better thread before OP goes and calls out MW2 and BC2. What he said in relation to them isnt as important as even hearing those acronyms makes people jump and start arguing a point that wasnt the point of the thread in the first place.

Yes yes, its a hardcore game, and I love and hate some parks of the movement system. I like that the soldier has some weight, one of my favorite things is going from a sprint to a dive. However some of the CQC movement feels really difficult, theres a reason why theres no real building combat. Its not a matter of realism to be honest.

On a similar note, I think one of the truly innovative things about ARMA controls is the head control, I love being able to run straight and look left and right. Looks really cool, makes it feel so much more real and best of all, its actually useful in the game.

[RaptoR-Swe 0]

This could of been a much better thread before OP goes and calls out MW2 and BC2. What he said in relation to them isnt as important as even hearing those acronyms makes people jump and start arguing a point that wasnt the point of the thread in the first place.

.

OP agrees, MW2 or BC2 really brings out the hate that arma 2 players have against such games, much of it is justified.

It would be better to compare Arma2OAs animations towards the old OFP:res.

In this case, it was better before.