WIP: JTD Weather And Climate

[sickboy 13]

Very nice :)! Any plans for wind synchronization thingies by chance?

Ref http://dev-heaven.net/issues/8703 etc :)

[TRexian 0]

Yeah, that wind issue should be addressed. Would be great to have a serious sniper/spotter availability.

DM's done more on this (obviously) :D but aren't there some CBA functions that distribute certain settings or variables across an MP environment?

[dmarkwick 261]

Very nice :)! Any plans for wind synchronization thingies by chance?

Ref http://dev-heaven.net/issues/8703 etc :)

I'm sure that can easily be achieved using the CBA_fnc_globalExecute function. That's how I intend to MP all the other weather settings so wind should be just the same. It'll be a matter of appropriate update frequency vs inate "script lag" (the dreaded 0.03ms script time limit) as to how precisely everyone will be synced I guess, not so bad when you're talking about the sky texture as that will always be fairly slow, but fog can sometimes look a little jumpy (during updates for sudden downpours of heavy rain for example), and for sniper & spotter purposes, I guess wind can also be slightly troublesome.

Slight variations could always be put down to natural differences in each unit's immediate area though right? :) natural atmospheric turbulence must factor in to RL sniper & spotter duties & procedures too yes? I don't know, my knowledge about sniper procedures at that level is small.

There is a parameter in the setWind command that can set the wind to permanent, which I would guess locks wind at that setting until the next command update and disallows drift from that setting, I guess that would absolutely lock all clients to the same setting. Maybe I'll have that as a config setting though, it seems to me that natural small drifts between clients would be OK for the reasons stated above, and it all gets resynced at [x] amount of seconds anyway.

---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------

Don't be shy to post video of your advancement ;) ...even if it's unfinished stuff. You could get very good constructive comments.

I did consider it but most tests at this stage are 16 minute stare-at-the-sky tests :D

Edited February 5, 2010 by DMarkwick

[dmarkwick 261]

is it also possible to add some subtile colourfilters like the namalsk map has one for every climate? i mean for jungle a more saturate "juicy kind of lightning and for dusty desert maybe less saturation. that would be cool.

I like the use of colour filters, I think that effect has not been really seriously taken advantage of yet. I would like to use such a thing to further increase the atmospheric feeling within the game, so maybe that will be a future project, separate from the weather but dependant on it.

I think I would factor in: climate & time of day, tiredness, amount of action etc. Just subtle things that barely register but which affect your perceptions.

Like the weather, it's a "hole" that no-one's filled yet ;)

There is the issue of other PP effects though, I don't know enough about it at this stage to know if I can layer PP effects over existing ones (ACE tactical glasses for example) or if I just simply bulldoze new ones in regardless.

Edited February 5, 2010 by DMarkwick

[sickboy 13]

Re setWind, in our tests this didn't work reliably enough, but im looking forward to your 'fix' to it :)

globalExecute is a crude function and is advised not to be used for anything else than debugging, like usage in a console, to test things in MP or whatsoever.

The reason for this is simple, globalExecute sends both, code and parameters, over the network, while under usual circumstances, you should only need to send parameters :)

I strongly suggest to look at addEventHandler, global, remote and localEvent instead :) example:

in config:

requiredAddons[]={"cba_main"};

in init script:

FUNC(weather) = { PARAMS_3(_bla,_ble,_blu); _bla setSpeed _ble; _blu doMove [0,0,0] };
["DM_weather", {_this call FUNC(weather)}] call CBA_fnc_addEventHandler;

then when you need to send such event:

["DM_weather", [someVehicle, 55, otherVehicle]] call CBA_fnc_globalEvent;

Edited February 5, 2010 by Sickboy

[dmarkwick 261]

Thanks for the reply Sickboy :) I use the globalExecute a lot in Fire & Smoke, so I'll need to rejig that too by the sounds of it.

[dmarkwick 261]

Sounds great, any plans on adding snow?

Snow? Did you say Snow? Here's a WIP of basic snow :) various weather types (some JTD weather, some BIS weather) and also some variance in turbulence.

0Ghb7Q1vasI

Two things - first, very first test of snow, so take it for what it represents i.e. a beginning to great snow :)

Second, no texture yet, just basic polygon shape.

Edited February 6, 2010 by DMarkwick

[Binkowski 26]

Snow looks good man

[frag 0]

:eek: BIS should make you an offer to join their team.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

As mission designer, I need to be in full charge of the weather. Weather serves me to set fighting capabilities and the mission mood I'm looking for. When weather scripts in good intent overrides what I'm looking for, I find them useless. Unusual weather phenomenon do exist :)

Rules I want you to consider:

* Wind affects fog. Typically wind will dry air and make condensation less likely. High amounts of fog are usually found at dead calm conditions.

* Rain can not occur with overcast <= 0.6 within the engine.

* setRain needs a very dense loop in order for engine not to override it.

* Prolonged changes to setFog and setOvercast cannot happen simultaneously (unless using forecast). You have to set each individually in small steps followed by the other, then repeat until wanted conditions are reached.

* I happen to disagree with Sickboy (and Xeno) about setWind. When wind reach significant values, the variations between clients are nothing more than what I call random factors downrange the shot. Maybe calm conditions prove more variations than expected, I don't know. Try land a small aircraft in windy conditions, and you'll see that steady winds are not that steady.

* Distributed randomness rather than linear randomness. In real life, thunderstorms are far apart. In most missions that uses a simple random function, thunderstorms are highly frequent and annoying.

Allow the mission designer to use calls to setup whatever weather he wants using a set of parameters for each weather stuff independently. I.e. on the server in the lines of:

[0.3, 0.5, 300] call wx_setOvercast; //minimum, mamimum, time

[0.1, 0.2, 300] call wx_setFog; //minimum, mamimum, time

[0.3, 0.3, 20] call wx_setRain; //minimum, mamimum, time, but will fail here since overcast is not enough

[6.1, 120] call wx_setWind; //speed m/s, from direction

Server sends message to each client to start their weather change with the above values. But with the above in mind, wx_setRain should be delayed until setOvercast is finished. And maybe wx_setFog should be governed with wx_setWind such that wind conditions overrules/safes the fog conditions.

With wind already being "problematic" as it is for some, there is no point in further complicating things by trying to make gusty winds (force variations) or variable winds (direction variations), as this would require too much net traffic for clients to remain synched.

Limit winds to reasonable levels. Beaufort 6 maximum. Anything above that would need effects that Arma2 is not capable of delivering, and would just appear weird. Even simple stuff like current particle effects for smoke starts to fail at this level.

Snow or not should be completely mission driven. Both Chernarus and Utes are placed in the middle of the ocean, I don't expect addon islands to be "properly" placed either. That means that mission designer should have the possibility to override snow or force snow no matter where the island is placed geographically on earth.

Weather reports are to me important (hey, I'm interrested in GA flying :)), both current conditions and forecasted weather:

* Overcast values in x/8, where 8/8 happens about 0.5-0.6. Means that you need full overcast to have rain and thunderstorm probabilities, but that's ok.

* Fog in visibility values. Trying visibilities, I've found it to be linear at a certain factor, but at a certain point the factor changes. This value will be a "maximum visibility", as rain will further limit it, but that is also ok. I never tried to map out visibility factors caused by rain.

* Rain in course amounts. No rain, some rain, medium rain, and high rain should do the trick. Maybe "expect snow above nnn meters".

* Wind should give *from* direction, and speeds in multiple formats such as m/s, knots, and beaufort?

Why reports in aviation format? Basically because I couldn't find any examples of good weather reports in "army format" the way I would expect it to look in a warning order/OPORD/FRAGO. If you can find them, then by all means use them :)

In the end; fully climate based weather systems may be nice in some cases, but often a mission designer makes weather an important factor of the mission, and needs to have full control over it.

[dmarkwick 261]

Hi CarlGustaffa :) I think you'll find that most of your concerns are already catered for :)

As mission designer, I need to be in full charge of the weather. Weather serves me to set fighting capabilities and the mission mood I'm looking for. When weather scripts in good intent overrides what I'm looking for, I find them useless. Unusual weather phenomenon do exist

The primary purpose of JTD WAC is to provide realistic weather appropriate for the location, season, and time of day, in a way that gives missions and situations variety between sessions.

The secondary purpose of JTD WAC is to allow for custom settings to be implemented. This includes complete control by the mission designer overriding the WAC settings.

Rules I want you to consider:

* Wind affects fog. Typically wind will dry air and make condensation less likely. High amounts of fog are usually found at dead calm conditions.

I have already a set of rules to implement for fog :) it will as you say only be prevalent on calm conditions, however I also intend to use it to augment very heavy rain, I think it's suitable for that.

* Rain can not occur with overcast <= 0.6 within the engine.

And neither will it in WAC (smiley removed for image count limits.)

* setRain needs a very dense loop in order for engine not to override it.

Only testing will reveal a suitable client updating frequency of this, however I'm not too worried about small variations of rain between clients.

* Prolonged changes to setFog and setOvercast cannot happen simultaneously (unless using forecast). You have to set each individually in small steps followed by the other, then repeat until wanted conditions are reached.

Yes I know ;)

* I happen to disagree with Sickboy (and Xeno) about setWind. When wind reach significant values, the variations between clients are nothing more than what I call random factors downrange the shot. Maybe calm conditions prove more variations than expected, I don't know. Try land a small aircraft in windy conditions, and you'll see that steady winds are not that steady.

Several posts back I think I mentioned this, and like the rain I am not too worried about small differences between clients. I put it down to small variations between locations, or turbulence ;) also, there is the option for me to pass the "true" parameter to force wind NOT to drift from settings. In some form, WAC will work fine I'm sure (smiley removed for image count limits.)

* Distributed randomness rather than linear randomness. In real life, thunderstorms are far apart. In most missions that uses a simple random function, thunderstorms are highly frequent and annoying.

WAC behavior will be long cycles between weather states, modified by probability curve functions. So, if at a particular time of year thunderstorms are unlikely, ingame, thunderstorms will be unlikely. (smiley removed for image count limits.)

Allow the mission designer to use calls to setup whatever weather he wants using a set of parameters for each weather stuff independently. I.e. on the server in the lines of:

[0.3, 0.5, 300] call wx_setOvercast; //minimum, mamimum, time

[0.1, 0.2, 300] call wx_setFog; //minimum, mamimum, time

[0.3, 0.3, 20] call wx_setRain; //minimum, mamimum, time, but will fail here since overcast is not enough

[6.1, 120] call wx_setWind; //speed m/s, from direction

You'll have the option to make whatever weather calls you want, using the module that disables JTD WAC for just this sort of reason (smiley removed for image count limits.)

Server sends message to each client to start their weather change with the above values. But with the above in mind, wx_setRain should be delayed until setOvercast is finished. And maybe wx_setFog should be governed with wx_setWind such that wind conditions overrules/safes the fog conditions.

Again, there will be a set of prioritized events that will take care of all this. Overcast, fog, rain & wind will hopefully all be controlled using factors arranged in importance, starting with date and location, and going all the way down to logical recent weather effects (i.e. heavy rain followed by a hot spell will have an increased probability of fog).

With wind already being "problematic" as it is for some, there is no point in further complicating things by trying to make gusty winds (force variations) or variable winds (direction variations), as this would require too much net traffic for clients to remain synched.

No, I won't be simulating gusty winds to that fine a degree, just basic regular updates from the server, and any ingame client drifts will be localised variations (smiley removed for image count limits.)

Limit winds to reasonable levels. Beaufort 6 maximum. Anything above that would need effects that Arma2 is not capable of delivering, and would just appear weird. Even simple stuff like current particle effects for smoke starts to fail at this level.

To be honest, I'm initially leaving the wind to be generated by the server using BIS controlled functions, then syncing clients to that wind setting. I think that's an acceptable first release stance (smiley removed for image count limits.)

Snow or not should be completely mission driven. Both Chernarus and Utes are placed in the middle of the ocean, I don't expect addon islands to be "properly" placed either. That means that mission designer should have the possibility to override snow or force snow no matter where the island is placed geographically on earth.

I refer you to previous answers (smiley removed for image count limits.)

Weather reports are to me important (hey, I'm interrested in GA flying), both current conditions and forecasted weather:

* Overcast values in x/8, where 8/8 happens about 0.5-0.6. Means that you need full overcast to have rain and thunderstorm probabilities, but that's ok.

* Fog in visibility values. Trying visibilities, I've found it to be linear at a certain factor, but at a certain point the factor changes. This value will be a "maximum visibility", as rain will further limit it, but that is also ok. I never tried to map out visibility factors caused by rain.

* Rain in course amounts. No rain, some rain, medium rain, and high rain should do the trick. Maybe "expect snow above nnn meters".

* Wind should give *from* direction, and speeds in multiple formats such as m/s, knots, and beaufort?

I expect some form of weather forecast data could be available. As for rain, wind and related visibilities, the BIS rain logic will be used (at least for initial release) but broadcast and synced on clients. I'll be using overcast settings to relay to the addon that I require "poor weather" that will either be rainy, windy, just overcast, or some combination. If that proves to be not fine enough, then I'll work on wind & rain specific logic.

Why reports in aviation format? Basically because I couldn't find any examples of good weather reports in "army format" the way I would expect it to look in a warning order/OPORD/FRAGO. If you can find them, then by all means use them

I'll provide the variable names for such logic to use, and someone else can crowbar them into specific formats (smiley removed for image count limits.)

In the end; fully climate based weather systems may be nice in some cases, but often a mission designer makes weather an important factor of the mission, and needs to have full control over it.

Indeed. (smiley removed for image count limits.)

Edited February 7, 2010 by DMarkwick

[bushlurker 46]

Looks like you have all the bases covered DM! - why am I not surprised? :)

B

[lynxwolf 10]

is this a script or addon???

[[frl]myke 14]

Hi DMarkwick,

i have been cross-reading a few articles about barometrics in aviation and meteorolgy now and gathered a very rough and basic idea how this works.

As far i understand your system, you're already collecting/generating data that could be needed to calculate a possible barometric pressure.

So i would ask you to think about on including some kind of barometric data source (simple global variable would do) which i could use for the altimeter. Sure thing it's only a minor feature but you know as well as i do, it's the details that makes the difference between "normal" and "special". :D

[jw custom 56]

Snow? Did you say Snow? Here's a WIP of basic snow :) various weather types (some JTD weather, some BIS weather) and also some variance in turbulence.

Two things - first, very first test of snow, so take it for what it represents i.e. a beginning to great snow :)

Second, no texture yet, just basic polygon shape.

Thats awesome, with maps like Thirsk this will be most needed :cool:

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Using setWind with the TRUE parameter is important so that clients doesn't drift independently. There will still be variations, just not that huge afaik. Using this allows spotter and sniper to have nearly identical wind readings in ACE, which I find important.

"BIS rain logic"? I don't have such a module or game logic. If you're trying to get controlled rain with vanilla behavior - forget it, it just doesn't work :) If I want steady low rain to last, I have to keep updating the value in a frequent client loop. Just try varying overcast values and setRain with low amounts and observe for yourself. I wish BIS could set a delay on this, i.e. it could take 1 minute from setRain is done with its thing until engine starts doing its thing. Then at least we could remain in full control using 50 second loops instead of 0.5 second loops.

I don't think you need to use fog to augment rain visibility. Heavy rain (remember you have to loop it ;)) gives a rather dramatic visibility decrease already, and using additional fog just complicates the code (I've used this myself in Arma1, and it became messy). Fog for snow however...

Not sure I want barometric pressure actually. A default value of 1013.25 HPa (standard pressure) should work well enough. It allows all the weather stuff we are able to get with the engine. A high pressure can also do that, but not a low pressure (storms). If pressure is high, you now have to exclude certain weather types, and by implementing it it has the potential to complicate the code.

Also, stay away from "local weather" (as we had in i.e. earlier Domination), as AI will not be able to be affected by this. AI in one location can not have weather that differs from AI at another location. Probably common knowledge, but still :)

Just my $2 :D

Edit: Btw, I'd be happy to betatest.

[old_painless 182]

Snow? Did you say Snow? Here's a WIP of basic snow :) various weather types (some JTD weather, some BIS weather) and also some variance in turbulence.

0Ghb7Q1vasI

Two things - first, very first test of snow, so take it for what it represents i.e. a beginning to great snow :)

Second, no texture yet, just basic polygon shape.

Just, WOW. Well done, holds much promise.

A few things come into my mind:

The snow: Will it gradually turn the ground white and will footprints show? Ie. can I hunt down an enemy indian-style :D

The snow and fog: Will the lowered visibility affect my stealthiness, ie. will the enemy AI also have lowered visibility because of it? For instance, will it affect AI snipers?

Edited February 17, 2010 by Old_Painless

[[frl]myke 14]

Not sure I want barometric pressure actually. A default value of 1013.25 HPa (standard pressure) should work well enough. It allows all the weather stuff we are able to get with the engine. A high pressure can also do that, but not a low pressure (storms). If pressure is high, you now have to exclude certain weather types, and by implementing it it has the potential to complicate the code.

Please don't get me wrong, i don't ask for an in-depth weather sim based on barometric pressure. I just would need the actual data of it.

Since this weather module already controls weather and therefor holds data about location (longitude/latitude), time of year, time of day, detailed actual weather and also upcoming weather, i guess it would be just a little step to include a script that computes a barometric pressure value based on these data.

So basically it would go right inverse as in real life. Instead of weather evolving based on barometric pressure, ingame the barometric pressure would be calculated on actual and upcoming weather.

As said, it would be a tiny detail for plane addon creators but you all know how even small details can add to immersion. A correct setup altimeter, calibrated to the correct pressure can make the difference between a safe landing and a crash in bad weather conditions.

[dmarkwick 261]

Using setWind with the TRUE parameter is important so that clients doesn't drift independently. There will still be variations, just not that huge afaik. Using this allows spotter and sniper to have nearly identical wind readings in ACE, which I find important.

It will be something that I will experiment with, but it may not be necessary. Only testing will realise this.

"BIS rain logic"? I don't have such a module or game logic. If you're trying to get controlled rain with vanilla behavior - forget it, it just doesn't work :) If I want steady low rain to last, I have to keep updating the value in a frequent client loop. Just try varying overcast values and setRain with low amounts and observe for yourself. I wish BIS could set a delay on this, i.e. it could take 1 minute from setRain is done with its thing until engine starts doing its thing. Then at least we could remain in full control using 50 second loops instead of 0.5 second loops.

By BIS rain logic, I don't mean a module or game logic, I just mean the ingame logic that controls rain :) Last night I played a test weather code in Isla Duala, and when the overcast became > 0.8 or so there was very heavy rain for *most* of the time. I'm guessing that sometimes this will not happen, that somtimes there will be less rain. But, as far as that test went, I saw rather acceptable behavior. It rained most of the time with a few pauses. Syncing this behavior each 30 seconds or so might be an acceptable gameplay setup, again, only testing will reveal this.

I don't think you need to use fog to augment rain visibility. Heavy rain (remember you have to loop it ;)) gives a rather dramatic visibility decrease already, and using additional fog just complicates the code (I've used this myself in Arma1, and it became messy). Fog for snow however...

I only intend to use fog to augment rain in very heavy rain conditions, and perhaps also vary the amount of fog on a per-geo zone basis, so more fog for heavy tropical rain (I've served in tropical environments so I know how much visibility it's possible to lose :)) and less fog for more temperate zones.

Not sure I want barometric pressure actually. A default value of 1013.25 HPa (standard pressure) should work well enough. It allows all the weather stuff we are able to get with the engine. A high pressure can also do that, but not a low pressure (storms). If pressure is high, you now have to exclude certain weather types, and by implementing it it has the potential to complicate the code.

Barometric pressure will have no purpose in JTD WAC, however it's just a matter of updating some abstract number, so I might include it as a freebie :) But, the main problem for users of barometric pressure in their addons would be a WAC dependency.

Also, stay away from "local weather" (as we had in i.e. earlier Domination), as AI will not be able to be affected by this. AI in one location can not have weather that differs from AI at another location. Probably common knowledge, but still

Local weather might make it as a separate addon dependant on WAC.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

The snow: Will it gradually turn the ground white and will footprints show? Ie. can I hunt down an enemy indian-style

No, that's beyond the scope of this addon and very probably beyond the abilities of ArmA2 itself. The snow will be for use on snowy maps, whenever they happen to come along.

The snow and fog: Will the lowered visibility affect my stealthiness, ie. will the enemy AI also have lowered visibility because of it? For instance, will it affect AI snipers?

I believe fog affects AI visibility natively in ArmA2. I don't have any plans to work this into WAC unless it turns out that it does not.

---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

Please don't get me wrong, i don't ask for an in-depth weather sim based on barometric pressure. I just would need the actual data of it.

Since this weather module already controls weather and therefor holds data about location (longitude/latitude), time of year, time of day, detailed actual weather and also upcoming weather, i guess it would be just a little step to include a script that computes a barometric pressure value based on these data.

So basically it would go right inverse as in real life. Instead of weather evolving based on barometric pressure, ingame the barometric pressure would be calculated on actual and upcoming weather.

As said, it would be a tiny detail for plane addon creators but you all know how even small details can add to immersion. A correct setup altimeter, calibrated to the correct pressure can make the difference between a safe landing and a crash in bad weather conditions.

Indeed the barometric pressure would be "reverse engineered" from the current weather. In any addon that uses barometric pressure from JTD WAC you'd need to make provisions for inserting arbitrary values when WAC is not present. In all truthfulness, it's probably something you'd be better off implementing yourself using gathered weather information and generating a barometric number. That's all I'd be doing in any case, so I guess anyone can already do this.

Edited February 17, 2010 by DMarkwick

[jpinard 10]

Looks amazing! :)

[kroky 1]

Is there any news about the progress of this system? I am very interested in it if it could surpass the NIM weather system.

[bushlurker 46]

I am very interested in it if it could surpass the NIM weather system.

... I think that's quite likely!...

... will there be new Thunder? As in - a variety of rolling, thundery-type sound samples accompanying certain levels of rain?? Thunder - and possibly lightning "on-demand" could be handy for videomakers...

B

Edited March 10, 2010 by Bushlurker

[AnimalMother92 10]

I'm just looking forward to some proper fog, as seen in the videos :D

The vanilla stuff is driving me insane..

[warrick 10]

Wow! I'm glad to see you develop a mod like this. It's time to succeed nim weather mod with a better functioning one. Keep up the good work DMarkwick :)

[DMC_RULEZ 10]

@DMarkwick

loved your Fire&Smoke :) and really looking forward to this Weather&Climate mod. Arma has been so in need of some good fog. :) and yours looks excellent so far. :D

@Bushlurker

You may like to have a look at the new HiFi sounds (they have some nice thunder)

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=9489

@AnimalMother92

Yep me too..But I have been playing with the low fog scripts, that Yac made.

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7122

and so far it has been a good alternative for me..but I have used it to make more horror type games :) seen here:-

low-fog tweaked version is here in this missions RaR

http://www.otakubrothers.com/testmissions.rar

And yes this fog is simple and in no way should be taking seriously...but anything right now beats the ingame one lol... (just pointing out how desperate we are for a new fog)...keep up the good work DMarkwick :notworthy: