Why is this game not more popular?

[An Fiach 10]

Every time you install a software package you are using your PC in a way that doesn't necessitate you knowing how it's being done. You insert a disk, you follow instructions, you use the installed software.

You would be amazed at how many people cannot even do that.

[dmarkwick 261]

You would be amazed at how many people cannot even do that.

Just like I am amazed how badly some people drive ;) :D

[An Fiach 10]

Just like I am amazed how badly some people drive ;) :D

And yet there aren't people falling over themselves to get those people behind the wheel 'easier' :D

[Bulldogs 10]

I should have defined it better. Basically a black box is something that you can use without needing to know how the internal operates. By definition it's something that can take input and give output without needing anything more than that.

The term is loosely used for a computer because a computer is built of hardware and software that allows you to input data and get an output. Every program doesn't require you to reprogram it to get an output.

Many people make the mistake of thinking a black Box is something that you can't change the internals of, and while it cam be, it's not limited to.

A PC is a black box, it also contains algorithms. Algorithms are black boxes, as are most of the hardware and software components.

The term simplifies it though, but yes, PCs are much more customisable than consoles, but as far as the analogy gos, for any car enthusiast, comparing a car to a console is an insult as cars are very customisable compared to the console limitations.

Anyways, back on topic......

[Defunkt 431]

Thank you for that rather vague and meandering definition, I'm sure I should be much the wiser. Many things have inputs and outputs, the actual defining concept for a 'Black Box' is that one doesn't monkey with the internals which of course pretty much everybody routinely does with a PC (see re-purposing, re-programming, installing software above).

[Bulldogs 10]

A little advice. If you're going to link something, best not link the same description I just gave, and also best not to link something that defies your own description. From the link

In science and engineering, a black box is a device, system or object which can (and sometimes can only) be viewed solely in terms of its input, output and transfer characteristics without any knowledge of its internal workings.

You'll notice from the highlighted section that it defines an object that can be used without tinkering. Meaning that in many cases you can tinker with the insides to use it, but you can use it without tinkering.

Anything in existence can be altered in some way or another. But a Black Box mearly can be operated without opening it up and changing it. In the same way if you bought a computer pre-built and setup you could play around with it without having to open the computer up and manually move the parts yourself.

As I said, the term black box has always been very vague. It was originally used as a desciption of a gun scope (used on the Flying Fotress during WW2). The scope had systems to adjust for windage and other environmental variables. Since then the term has been used for everything from a car, to an xbox, and even a computer.

In many cases the contents shouldn't be changed (like the black box of an aircraft) but not all cases is a black box unchangeable.

Anyways, this is going far off topic. Bringing it back around....

We are saying Arma 2 is not so popular because it is not a black box, or at least, not a very emphasized black box?

Edited February 25, 2010 by Bulldogs

[dmarkwick 261]

Thank you for that rather vague and meandering definition, I'm sure I should be much the wiser. Many things have inputs and outputs, the actual defining concept for a 'Black Box' is that one doesn't monkey with the internals which of course pretty much everybody routinely does with a PC (see re-purposing, re-programming, installing software above).

I don't wish to unnecessarily piss on your strawberries, but installing software hardly counts as programming. "Re-purposing" and "installing" sounds to me like normal PC usage, for which people have no need to know how any of it is actually done. Programming, for sure, you have to know more of how things are done, but that is akin to hotrodding a car, another activity where you need to know how things work.

I know you're trying to dig your heels in over this point, but really, I think the situation has been satisfactorily explained :)

[jpinard 10]

Until I read an amazing "field report"... I think it was done in PC GAMER? I didn't realize just how perfect this game was for someone like myself. The name "ArmA" was so archaic and meaningless... even though I'm a die-hard simulation fan. So a few weeks ago it went on sale at Best Buy, and even though I've been very sick for months - I had my wife go pick it up for me.

As for multiplayer - I'm not sure how friendly it is for newbies. I'm still learning myself.

Is that article reproduced anywhere? Now that I have the game I want to re-read it... but I rarely keep more than 2 months of PC Gamers before recycling them.

[jblackrupert 14]

There was a direct link to the august article on PC Gamers site but it's dead now.

I don't have a copy save sorry.

[Defunkt 431]

"Re-purposing" and "installing" sounds to me like normal PC usage, for which people have no need to know how any of it is actually done.

It has nothing to do with what people need to know to do it, it's about the fact that "re-purposing" and "installing" software is as you've just admitted a normal usage. What possible reason could there be to install software other than to alter what transpires between input and output and how can such a thing then be described as a 'Black Box'?

[dmarkwick 261]

It has nothing to do with what people need to know to do it, it's about the fact that "re-purposing" and "installing" software is as you've just admitted a normal usage. What possible reason could there be to install software other than to alter what transpires between input and output and how can such a thing then be described as a 'Black Box'?

*shrug*

I've explained as much as I care to, if you insist, be my guest :)

[Bulldogs 10]

I feel like I'm on the wrong forums... where was the evidence of the lie by... oops, I mean, How many reasons have we come up with as to why this game is not more popular?

[LJF 0]

Hmm, not many people playing these days online :( Used to be heaps.

[whisper 0]

How many reasons have we come up with as to why this game is not more popular?

There was some reason given and possible propositions to help, and people coming rebutting any proposed change, over the fear of losing... I still don't know what, in fact....

Fear of seeing new people playing the game, perhaps not exactly in the same way they play it themselves?

That would be sure horrendous, as we all know there's only one way of playing ArmA2! (which one, btw?)

/sarcasm

[Bulldogs 10]

I support change... but I get bored easily.

I agree there should be a fair few changes to the base structure. Some things I wouldn't change, like the player movement, but I would tweak the performance of the player movement so it's not so highly effected by low fps.

[LJF 0]

I support change... but I get bored easily.

I agree there should be a fair few changes to the base structure. Some things I wouldn't change, like the player movement, but I would tweak the performance of the player movement so it's not so highly effected by low fps.

Definitely, I mean I love the player movement, but it could be improved as at the moment it feels like you're "stuck" onto a single plane, which is weird. I'd like to see momentum/weight - sort of like Assassin's Creed in the way you start and stop running instead of the instant stops and starts we have now. Then again, it's better than the floating camera approach lol.

Worse thing is when you run off a building and hit the ground before sliding 20m across the ground.

[zoog 18]

Is that article reproduced anywhere?

This?

http://www.pcgamer.com/pdfs/Dec09.FromTheFront.pdf

[galzohar 31]

Not change the player movement? Sure I wouldn't make it faster (in fact I'd make it slower, as I don't know anyone who jogs at 20KM/H with gear on nor sprint at 25KM/H), but I'd definitely like to see it done differently. Though I find collision detection to be a much bigger problem than the actual movement.

When it comes to viruses, if a PBO can harm your computer in any way than BIS should already be in big trouble. If they did their job right, though, there is no way for a PBO to do any harm to your computer if used from within the game.

[kklownboy 43]

Until I read an amazing "field report"... I think it was done in PC GAMER? I didn't realize just how perfect this game was for someone like myself. The name "ArmA" was so archaic and meaningless... even though I'm a die-hard simulation fan. So a few weeks ago it went on sale at Best Buy, and even though I've been very sick for months - I had my wife go pick it up for me.

As for multiplayer - I'm not sure how friendly it is for newbies. I'm still learning myself.

Is that article reproduced anywhere? Now that I have the game I want to re-read it... but I rarely keep more than 2 months of PC Gamers before recycling them.

Get well and get on some Dom and EVo severs (did i just say that!eww..) to just get the full spectrum of MP crazyness, you will feel more comfortable when you start the migration to COOP and TvT servers, and then you will find the people you like to play with and will fine tune your skills in a unit, after that its all about the private server life. This game rocks. Oh do the SP stuff , and hit the CTI warfare servers after. Dang so many options and ways to play this game... NO other game come close..

[jblackrupert 14]

or better yet. shoot other humans instead of predictable AI

[esco7800 10]

Advertising I had never herd of the game till I war on a game site voteing for there best game awards and a guy said cents ace 2 was not in the runing he would not vote I had no idea what ace 2 was and being the type of person I was i looked it up and found this great game now I play it evary day I love the addons that why i got the game when I seen what the modders had done I never played a game with out them so I would say 1.Advertising 2.bugs 3.not evarybodys cup of tea

[Bulldogs 10]

... 'cause Oprah hasn't told everyone to play it yet.

[Herbal Influence 10]

... 'cause Oprah hasn't told everyone to play it yet.

Yes, she can!

But she needs substance, new revolutionary ideas ... to invite Maruk to her show ...

Like here. :eek:

[CzingerX 0]

Well, I think it is two things.

Most people have the Steam version and do not know about the new patch. If they don't check up on there games regulary.

The second is, the ACE mod is required for about every server online. It is a great mod, but the less inclined PC user will have a hard time installing it due to the number of steps involved.

[raserisk 12]

True, I have the STEAM version and had to install 1.05 manually. I don't have a issue with it personally but the majority do, since after all---Why buy it off STEAM if the patches aren't going to be rolled out automaticly for them too?

I love this game, deeply.

Take 1.05, put it out on STEAM offically, and sell it for 50% for a week. Demo alone, has enough content to make anyone buy it.

I think the reasons why ARMA 2 isn't bigger is firstly, I don't think the majority of gamers have a computer that can properly run it to their standards. (Luckily I got a new PC back in September)

Release was very buggy and unpolished. That has been fixed now, but the damage already done.

As others have noted, I saw very little promotion of the game.

To conclude, ARMA 2 is a must-have game in my opinion if you can run it. I haven't had this much fun with a game since the Novalogic days or even the HL2 years. Can't wait for the expansion.