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LockDOwn

Why is this game not more popular?

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This game is beautiful to look at and is a very good sim as well. So why isn't more popular? As it is now, I only play weekends because not many people are online during the week.

Is it because...

- poor marketing.

- AI in many multi player games?

- Lack of dedicated servers for online PvP games?

What do you think they could do to improve the low population online?..

- Dedicate servers.

- Develop a massive population server.

- Increase squad membership by hooding squad stats on the Arma site?

- Make it for realistic by adding true ballistics?

What do you guys think?

Edited by LockDOwn

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Because a lot of the players are working adults who can't play during weekdays? :) So far, more than half the players I knew here are working adults, myself included.

And yes, it does also come back to the point of why ArmA2 isn't popular amongst the "mainstream" players? Maybe cos its not "arcade" enough...hehehehe... beats the hell out of me.

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I think the main reason you forgot to mention is that this style of game doesn't by far appeal to everybody.

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How many people do you need to play that game?

There a steadily about a 500 servers open.

There a every hour more than 400 gamers online - so what?

Take a look here.

Sure I wish BI games a bigger community, but what for do you need more than there are?

Is your questioning serious - is my question.

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I agree that's it's mostly due to lack of advertising, but secondarily because there is no Head-shot! - God-Like! - Dominating! voice over when one scores a kill.

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I agree that's it's mostly due to lack of advertising, but secondarily because there is no Head-shot! - God-Like! - Dominating! voice over when one scores a kill.

Easily moddable. :p

And yeah, as with ArmA1, there's been next to no advertising. At least none that i've come across.

Of course personally, i like that BIS spend more money on game content, but I can't help but feel they'd sell a lot more copies with further reaching marketing.

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1. It's a niche market

2. Buggy release (which get mentioned in reviews etc)

3. Advertising

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ArmA2 represents several diversions from normal gaming practises. Already discussed are the realism, non-instantaneous "adrenaline hit" nature of the game.

But the game engine itself is unique in gaming, in that it's not player-centric. In a game that has maps 20km across, it's possible to place two enemy units or groups across the other side of the game world, and they will faithfully play out their conflict, using tactics, weaponry, accuracy, all the variables you'd expect, even if the player will never see any of this.

You explain this to most gamers and they'd say it was a waste of resources. Who cares what happens away from the player?

The single thing this game has above all others (IMO) is fidelity. The fidelity to model stuff that the player might never see. It's possible for the player to eventually reach that area, and to work out the sequence of events using bodies, blood splatter & trails, wreckage, damage etc. But he''l never know exactly what happened precisely. But he'll know that it DID happen precisely.

That's what I like most about the ArmA2 engine :)

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I guess many players that was used to the battlefield 2, CS and other arcade like shooters quickly shelved the game after a short time, when it didn't live up to their expectations. Some of the game trailers make it look more like a fast paced arcade shooter, so many got disapointed when it is rather slow and very complicated.

I got 3 of my friends to buy it at release and none of them really got into it. They lost their patience, mainly because of the many bugs (That I tried to explain would be improved in future patches and by the community) and the complex interface and gameplay.

The public online games where not much fun right after realease, the famous receiving message, and red chain followed by CTD. Mix it up with all the team killers and idiots screwing things up, thats always attracted by new online games, and I think many players got discouraged by that.

Someone in here posted a while ago that Arma 2 has sold over 1 million copys. Which I think is very good for a niche-game like this, if those numbers are correct?

Unfortunately I think many of those never got to experience this game at it's best before they gave up. With all of the great community content and playing in organized games. Or just playing around in the editor like I do most of the time :)

-Better documentation on all the key commands and how to control AI.

-More in depth ingame turtorials on gameplay.

-A small ingame turtorial for editor, that cover the basic to get people started.

-Making all the players that are new to the series aware of the great community made content.

I hope BIS make a better job explaining to the new players how this game work when Operation Arrowhead comes out.

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In some ways I wish this game was more popular, as that means more revenue and more attention for BIS. In most, however, I'm perfectly content with it being as popular as it is. We all have seen what happens with a community when the game is immensely popular. Somehow, most of the forum members start tlkin in txt cht and flame the crap out of each other because their favorite sports team lost a game.

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What makes you think the game isn't popular?Are you basing this simply on the online count?

Many,many of us are enjoying ArmA2 to its fullest in SP which has a lot of advantages over MP.

You should have asked "Why is this game not more popular with ONLINE players" instead.

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1. It's a niche market

2. Buggy release (which get mentioned in reviews etc)

3. Advertising

4. campaign and missions didnt convince people

5. "improved/fixed later by patch or community" doesn't help anymore

@Herbal Influence look how many players are playing on those servers. ;)

There are still no infos about a next Arma2 patch or if BIS main focus is now only on OA release and working on Carrier Command:Gaea Mission.

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I think it because this game doesn't work online.

:j:

99% of players who had even "recommended" system for this game, can't play it online.

:rolleyes:

For me it is because after 1.05 my copy isn't "legal" anymore.

The game says that it is illegal.

That stopped me finally playing this game until 1.06 comes and hopefully fixes it back.

Edited by fantsu

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I think the big reason is that we have a large percentage of people who have grown accustomed to the FPS genre, which, IMO, is arcady and not very realistic. Basically the games where your individual kill to death ratio becomes your biggest bragging right. Most (I emphasise the word most) people play FPS games with no teamwork or strategy. Most people also do not like getting shot one time and dying or having to wait for a medic (teamwork). Alot of people like the fact that they can get shot 3 times and still turn around and shoot you with no negative effect to their aiming (less a red blood splatter on the screen) after being shot, or run through a hail of bullets and knife you. These are the types of things that made me look for something better and I definately found it in Arma2.

I agree with some of the posters here that advertising may have been an issue, as I only found the game by chance while looking at forums for COD where someone was complaining about realizm and it was suggested they try Arma. I then did some research and found the best military game I've played to date. However, in saying that I don't think it would appeal to the majority of people even if there was enough advertising. If BI was to try to promote thier military games more they would probably have to go more mainstream, which I think would result in a negative result for those of us who like the milsim game genre vs. the popular FPS genre.

Those are just my thoughts on the subject:).

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Imagine BIS has a budget of £100 pounds.

They could spend £80 on marketing and get thousands of players, and then use £20 to make the game mediocore.

Or they could spend it all on making an epic game, with a smallish, but steadily growing community. Personally i prefer the latter. Maybe when EA comes along and gives them a few million, we will see Arma on the TV and billboards...

:)

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How many people do you need to play that game?

There a steadily about a 500 servers open.

There a every hour more than 400 gamers online - so what?

Take a look here.

Sure I wish BI games a bigger community, but what for do you need more than there are?

Is your questioning serious - is my question.

Most play boring co-op. If you want to play pure PvP and a good AAS game... good luck.

---------- Post added at 09:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

What makes you think the game isn't popular?Are you basing this simply on the online count?

Many,many of us are enjoying ArmA2 to its fullest in SP which has a lot of advantages over MP.

You should have asked "Why is this game not more popular with ONLINE players" instead.

agreed

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The young guys are still able to get out in the back yards on hands and knees and play with toy soldiers.

I'm not.

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Popular or not its a great investment of time and energy.

Whether you are learning to play it, learning to make missions for it, or learning to modify it you can almost guarantee that there will be a steady community for a long time to come, even after ArmA was released there was a good solid year almost of mods and tools being released for OFP.

The reason it doesn't appeal to most people is because of the over all sandbox nature of the game more than anything. Beyond the campaign a lot of the enjoyment of the game comes from the effort you put into it.

I don't even think it comes down to realism. Look at other sandbox titles, mainly Garrys Mod for HL2. That is a wonderful mod, you can do some pretty amazing things just in the game, but it doesn't hold your hand or tell you what to do. A lot of people do not like that, they like to have their hands held and be guided through a story and when the story is done they are done with the title.

OFP and Arma have never been about that really. You get a giant sandbox, an environment that allows pretty decent simulations of real world military gear and you get to pretty much do whatever you want in it. I am sure everyone who played the OFP demo of Malden were just totally flabbergasted when they figured out they could just hop in a Jeep and drive off literally into the hills. Thats what grabs the people that play this game. Its ability to give you someplace totally immersible to play in.

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I think it's definitely the lack of marketing.

I don't buy the "too inaccessible" argument as I pretty much came here from Team Fortress 2. I didn't hear about the game until I was on steam browsing their store for cheap games though, and I would never have bought it hadn't it been for a pretty nice promo price at the time.

Nobody I've mentioned the game to so far has even heard of it, and a lot of them are gaming a lot and usually pay attention to new releases. In fact, I haven't even seen it in stores here in Norway, which speaks for itself. If you can't even find it in the store, how are you supposed to buy it? Me buying Arma2 Was pure coincidence, but I don't regret a second of it. Too bad it makes the Arma2 crowd smaller though.

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I think it because this game doesn't work online.

:j:

99% of players who had even "recommended" system for this game, can't play it online.

:rolleyes:

For me it is because after 1.05 my copy isn't "legal" anymore.

The game says that it is illegal.

That stopped me finally playing this game until 1.06 comes and hopefully fixes it back.

WTF are you talking about?

So, by your logic, when you have some issues it automatically means that 99% of people have issues with the game?

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what about the fact I am still dealing with patching errors and black receiving screen?eh?am I the only one?NO.what about the stupid useless gamespy?why bis didnt create a mp system like massive did with world in conflict?eh?

that s why people gives up soon with arma2....

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 PM ----------

WTF are you talking about?

So, by your logic, when you have some issues it automatically means that 99% of people have issues with the game?

when I go in mp I see the MAJORITY of players with troubles...this happens in public servers not in private clan servers...and why?cos the people joins squad AFTER their issue have been solved

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I believe there should be a console (washes mouth out with soap for remembering DR) version of the game to offer the same CQB adrenalin rush on smaller maps for younger players, with the full PC version offering the full spectrum of play we all enjoy (I am yet to see my young nephew join our server after telling him to get the game, and long range sniping is his 'thing' because at 24 he got bored with the usual games).

As said previously, the Arma community is more mature than the average gamer, and certainly for me my older (=slower) reflexes cannot match those of twitchy teenagers, so while I enjoy an arcade shoot out now and again the measured pace and use of teamwork and tactics of Arma suits me.

So my ideal would be a console based training ground, with carefully designed maps to gradually ween players from nade spamming and spawn point camping, to teamwork and more realistic combat tactics. This would lure those with future potential into the full game on the PCs with the power needed, which they could afford as they get older. Heck, us more experienced players might end up leading teams of young recruits into battle with each other !

Then you would see the popularity increase. On the other hand, would 5000 ex COD players be a good thing on the servers ?

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

The young guys are still able to get out in the back yards on hands and knees and play with toy soldiers.

I'm not.

+1 Those were the days . . .

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2. Buggy release (which get mentioned in reviews etc)

As many people know I'm a huge Fifa fan and play it most days on my Xbox 360, Fifa10 is riddled with bugs mostly in manager mode, here's a bug list from Fifa10, I'll use spoiler mode so I don't destroy the thread ;)

1) The Manager Mode freezing bug (where you can’t progress without your console locking up) still occurs, usually preceded by this error. [sCREENSHOT]

2) It has been reported that with some people transfers “lock†altogether after a certain amount of seasons (being linked to a disc problem). [iNCIDENT 1]

3) All teams below the Premier League have their tactics set to all-70s. Applies to other leagues/teams as well, see Australia, Brazil and others.

4) All assists are credited to the goalkeeper.

5) Players you loan out can be sold by the clubs you loaned them to.

6) Newly signed players vanish from your squad with no warning. They just disappear, and then if you look them up they’re playing for someone else.

7) When trying to sign a second loan player, sometimes I am told by the game that I already have two – when I only have one.

8) When signing two loan players, I then tried to (permanently) sign two free agents, and I’m told I can’t sign them because I “already have two players on loanâ€.

9) 90% of matches in England are played at night in the rain regardless of stadium choice. I’ve yet to see a match played in the daytime with sunny weather.

10) Seasonal changes don’t seem to affect the weather. So in England, in the summer, you will see rain and even snow with no games being played in sunshine.

11) Signing players is practically impossible, even when offering maximum wages and maximum bonuses, even if you can get their interest level up to 85%+. (Even if you start out as a manager with no reputation, you should be able to sign really poor players with no reputation who aren’t getting first-team football elsewhere.)

12) Signing your own players is just as difficult, regardless of how well the team is doing. They refuse to sign even when you offer the maximum wages allowed. But if you wait until the end of the season, you get the same screen you get in FIFA 09 where you can just tick a box to re-sign a player and they will sign for peanuts! Strange one!

13) The board sack you even if you occupy first place. You can expect to be fired at the mid-way point of the season if you lose a cup game, even if you’re in the top four of the league, especially in the Premier League. Even in the lower leagues, I’ve seen situations where games are won 6-0 every week for months and suddenly you’re fired the moment you draw 1-1.

14) When playing against teams who are better than you, your board always expect you to beat that team. I mostly play as a League 1 team, and if I’m beaten by a Championship or Premier League side I get a board comment that states I was “expected to win the gameâ€, and occasionally you will get the sack for this. This may be because teams aren’t recognised in their correct division; for example, when losing against a team from the league above you, you will occasionally get a message that says you should have done better against “lower league oppositionâ€.

15) The assistant manager, even when turned off, will swap your players around when you buy or sell a player. Player roles are also reset.

16) The assistant manager AI is terrible. It will choose players with no fitness (10%-20%) to play out of position, over players with 100% fitness who can play in that position. See below for more info.

17) The AI management of other clubs is terrible. Examples; Chelsea play Terry at LB with Cole at CB in the same match, Man Utd play Vidic and Ferdinand as LB/RB with Brown and Evra as CBs in the same match, Giggs gets played at LB occasionally, etc. etc. etc.

18) The effect of form is far too severe. It makes your team go up/down by a whole star rating within a few games, so with a 3 star team you can yoyo to 2 star and weeks later 4 star.

19) The form system seems to be totally random. I can win 2-3 games in a row by 2-3 goals and the form will get worse. A striker can score six goals in a game and his form will DROP!

20) I’ve seen one injury in two seasons; Marcel promised this lack of injuries – and especially this lack of SERIOUS injuries – was fixed for FIFA 10. This is simply not true. The most widely reported injury is whiplash, which isn't a common injury, and which only affects the player for a week.

21) Injuries don’t last for a long enough period of time. For example, a hamstring injury should keep a player out for a month – in FIFA 10 it’s a week.

22) When playing in the snow the ball used is white, which is incredibly difficult to see, and you can’t change the ball yourself.

23) Only 5 benched substitutes are allowed in FIFA 10 below the Premier League. All English league and cup competitions now allow 7 substitutes in reality.

24) Friendly games should allow 12 substitutes on the bench (and also you should be allowed to use all 12). Currently it’s restricted to 7 on the bench (with only 3 substitutions allowed).

25) Friendly games include matches against teams in your own division. This doesn’t usually happen in reality.

26) FA Cup games and the Community Shield game are played at night when they’re only ever played in the daytime now, including the final.

27) The shortlist was supposed to allow up to 20 players to be stored, but seems to only allow 10 players.

28) The overall rating of a player changes before/during the game. So if one of my strikers has an overall rating of 83 (including his form), when I pause the game and go to Team Management his rating can drop by 10+. What value is actually being used by the game? The pre-game rating or the paused-game rating?

29) Form should never affect physical attributes. For example, a striker who is on hot form wouldn’t see his pace increase.

30) Playing as a League 1/2 team, you have literally no fit players left after 3-5 games of the season. I don’t care how bad your fitness coach is, a group of professional players would have enough players fit to start a game after 3-5 games of the season. (You’re forced to spend £1m to upgrade your fitness coach to a realistic level.)

31) The league table that shows up at the start of each game is never correct (same as FIFA 09). It always shows you in 6th-9th position regardless of whether you’re in the top half or the bottom half of the table, and your opponents are shown in an incorrect position as well.

32) When simming games instead of playing them, two things to note. Firstly, the level of your fitness coach isn’t taken into account, so the players lose 25%-75% more fitness than they should. Secondly, when simming, you actually get to see some injuries! Plus they last for a decent period of time (e.g. metacarpal fracture, player out for four weeks)!

33) When you have a player injured, the game forces you to remove him from your team before going to the pre-game screen. You don't want to remove him from your first-choice team, you want to remove him at the pre-match team management screen, like in FIFA 09. But now you can't do that.

34) Often you are not told why a player has refused to sign for you. No explanation is given on the Negotiation History screen for these players and it seems that they are never permitted to sign for your club, for no apparent reason. You never get an explanation for the affected players.

35) Sometimes when trying to sign a player they’ll say e.g. they get a “bad vibe†from your current players. Try to sign them again next week and they’ll sign for you. Doesn’t make much sense.

36) You can list a player for sale/loan who is garbage, e.g. 42 overall when the rest of the players in your squad/division are 60+, and instantly you get offers from the top teams in your division/country for him. Sometimes even top-flight teams from other countries make an offer; they have no possible reason to loan in a player who is literally twice as bad as any other player they have. It seems that every player you ever list you MUST receive an offer for, even if they are terrible, and it’s always a good team that has no need for a poor player which shows interest.

37) As a manager with a reputation level of half-a-star, you sometimes get comments from the board that “a manager of your calibre should be performing betterâ€.

38) You lose respect with the board when losing a game on penalties. You should be given the same increase/decrease you would be given for a draw rather than a win/loss in these circumstances.

39) The leader of the assist list seems to be the player who keeps the most clean sheets.

40) Players who are substituted show no ratings at full-time. So if my striker gets a hat-trick and I substitute him, his rating is blank after the game. (Yet substituted players can receive Man of the Match awards, so a rating must be getting calculated by the game? I presume they’re just not being displayed?)

41) Goals/assists that occur in cup competitions, e.g. the FA Cup, aren’t counted in the player’s statistics. Also goals from the Charity Shield game aren't counted and yet the game itself counts as a game played.

42) When scouted players are presented to you for purchase, they are always said to play on the opposite side to their preferred foot. For example, a left winger will always be shown to prefer their right foot. Yet if you buy the player, most of the time, they will actually prefer the appropriate foot.

43) Some players will sign for a club and then the next week they’ll have signed for somebody else!

44) When searching for players their form ratings are displayed, rather than their actual ratings. This means you have no idea what the player’s actual ratings are.

45) When buying a player, they are given a squad number already in use, and it messes up the squad numbers for the entire team. Why can’t they be given a number that isn’t in use?

46) A stadium will never fill up with people. I can play a Champions League match against a five-star team and all stands will still have large empty sections.

47) The player search parameters you input will reset when bidding on a player. So if you search for e.g. a defender, CB, rated 50-60, playing in League Two, then you bid on one and you want to search for a midfielder with the same rating, the parameters have been reset meaning you have to input each one again.

48) Occasionally the wrong stadium picture is displayed pre-game. For example when playing at the Emirates a picture of (what looked to be) the training ground was displayed.

49) Creating a player (not a Virtual Pro) to sign in your Manager Mode career seems incredibly difficult/buggy. If you create a player and assign him to the free agents pool, the game freezes. If you assign him to a national team, he doesn’t show up as a free agent in Manager Mode. If you assign him to a national team and THEN move him to the free agents pool, you won’t be able to find him anywhere but in the “Created Players†section and you’ll see that his assigned team is referred to as something like "team1932as12309" – you can’t then find this team/player in Manager Mode to sign the player.

50) Commentary gaffes happen every 1-2 games, e.g. “5 minutes to go and they lead 1-0†when it’s 1-1, “I have to say he’s on one of the worst runs of his career†when he’s already scored in the match you’re playing, etc. etc. etc. and also, when playing as your Virtual Pro, you find the commentary refers to you scoring your 20th goal every time you score once you’ve reached that point. So for example when you score your 21st goal the commentator will say it’s your 20th, etc. (not sure if this only applies to Manager Mode or other modes as well).

NEW ONES

51) People playing as League Two teams (e.g. Bury) are reporting that they are not entered into the English league cup competition.

52) People are reporting that they can go from having millions to spend to being BILLIONS in debt. [iNCIDENT 1]

53) For the new season it was said by the development team that you receive new transfer funds and a new wage budget to reflect the new income for that season. People are reporting they start the new season with the same money they ended the last one. [iNCIDENT 1]

54) In the Squad Management screen before a fixture, set it to display the OVR rather than fatigue bar, then select a reserve and swap him with another reserve. I've seen both of their OVRs change.

55) The Edit Formation screen is buggy. If you nudge one position around, then go to change the role of another position, it thinks the second position is where the first is. Sometimes it'll move it so they overlap, and you have to drag it back to where you want it. This was also the case in FIFA 09.

56) The OVR number disappeared from a player's bio. It used to be next to the player's list of positions. Why has it been removed?

57) Your board can give you an objective, e.g. avoid relegation, but you're given no indication as to where the relegation zone is, e.g. playing as a Polish league side the board objectives for the first season are to get to the QF of the cup and to "aviod the relegation zone". Where is it? Bottom 3? Bottom 2? I'm in position 14 out of 16, how are we supposed to know if that's safe?

58) The board will often tell you to invest in new players, when the transfer window is closed and there's nothing you can do about it.

59) When saving a Manager Mode game, when it's finished saving, why are you prompted to save your profile as well? This is with autosave turned on!

60) The Belgian league is missing playoffs.

61) The new Europa League format is not in the game.

62) Incorrect teams make it into European competition. As someone has said, "I got 4th in career mode but a team that ended up 12th goes to europa league while I don't". [iNCIDENT 1]

63) For some reason only ten characters are permitted for first names and surnames now, when this wasn't the case in FIFA 09.

64) Friendly games (possibly Community Shield and cup games too) are counted as league games on the Manager History screen. So the recorded points/league position is false.

65) CPU substituted players remain on the field. Example; playing as Blackburn against Bolton, they subbed Kevin Davies for Elmander and you see the animation of him going off - couple of minutes later you notice he's still on the pitch and nearly scores a header.

66) Players sent off after 30 minutes can still win the Man of the Match award, which is ridiculous.

67) Teams from lower English leagues are appearing in European competitions which they shouldn't be eligible to appear in. [iNCIDENT 1]

68) Some people are experiencing an issue where the transfer window is listed as having "one week left" when there's actually e.g. four weeks left. Also in some circumstances the transfer window continuously says that there is "one week left" and it gets stuck like this forever.

69) This has been reported by a Manager Mode player suffering from the transfer window bug where the game says there is "one week left" when there are actually e.g. four weeks left. "I put players up for sale until the message came up that said the board will not allow you to sell any more players. I left it at eight players, and now that the transfer window is open, none of the players are set as for sale and I get that same board message as soon as I try to list a player. It's like it remembers I listed the players but it forgets it took all of them off sale itself."

70) Going 5 games unbeaten is recognised as winning 5 games in a row from the commentators.

71) Commentators falsely call Pienaar captain even when the captain is set to Cahill.

72) Crowd noise, for derby games, has a major bug where the home team support goes silent if they score. Play as a London team against Arsenal at the Emirates and when they score, instead of the crowd shouting or cheering, the crowd fall deathly silent while the Arsenal players celebrate. At kick-off, the noise level returns to normal.

73) Starting a Manager Mode game as Notts County, a forum user signed a free agent called Andros Townsend and he appears in the squad twice. This kind of thing is being more widely reported now.

74) The Manager Mode freeze bug on the simulating screen, that was present in FIFA 09, is back. [ALL REPORTED INCIDENTS]

74, obviously not all are bugs, some bugs, some glitches and a few are annoyances.......

Go find me a review which mentions these bugs and marks the games down because of them the same as they do against ArmA/ArmA2, find one?

The difference is Fifa is developed and published by EA, ArmA is developed by some little Czech developer and published by some niche global publishers, seems reviewers manage to find their "honest and full openness" pen when reviewing our games but not ones from big publishers whose ad revenue can be detrimental if taken away ;) Of course I'm in no way implying that consumers should be misled about bugs and they should be glossed over but there's a real disparity in how deeply games are being looked at when reviewed, which really harms sales potentially, and further adds to the likelihood that niche developers will fold.

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This game is beautiful to look at and is a very good sim as well. So why isn't more popular? As it is now, I only play weekends because not many people are online during the week.

Is it because...

- poor marketing.

- AI in many multi player games?

- Lack of dedicated servers for online PvP games?

What do you think they could do to improve the low population online?..

- Dedicate servers.

- Develop a massive population server.

- Increase squad membership by hooding squad stats on the Arma site?

- Make it for realistic by adding true ballistics?

What do you guys think?

I think you're out of your mind. Every time I come to the forum the new post count is like 150, and that's twice a day!. To me that's indicative of popularity albeit not MW2 popularity however.

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