Why is this game not more popular?

[kklownboy 43]

Where do you live?

what does that matter?

The only thing that BIS does extremely well is to stay the hell out of our way and let us make what we want to out of the game. That counts for a lot given the way most game companies want to micro manage their customers, but it isn't enough to make them 'popular'

Your kidding right? Yeah i mean its great they dont lock it all down and only have their servers, but to say they thats the only thing they do extremely well is just rude and not true... you should go back to TF2.

[An Fiach 10]

what does that matter? Your kidding right? Yeah i mean its great they dont lock it all down and only have their servers, but to say they thats the only thing they do extremely well is just rude and not true... you should go back to TF2.

Time zone matters, ping matters.....

Not rude and it isn't 'not true' and for the record, saying someone only does one thing extremely well, doesn't imply they they absolutely suck ass at everything else.

[Bulldogs 10]

I think they do several things extremely well, several things very well, several things good, several things not too bad, several things bad, several things atrociously, and several things DR style.... but now I'm pushing this further off topic.

[Guest]

I think they do several things extremely well, several things very well, several things good, several things not too bad, several things bad, several things atrociously, and several things DR style.... but now I'm pushing this further off topic.

You could say that about everything lol. The only difference between products would be how much of each they manage.

[Gen_Protection 10]

The only thing that BIS does extremely well is to stay the hell out of our way and let us make what we want to out of the game.

You mean they "BIS" provide an open sandbox type toolset, then provide lots of info on how to use it (free), then give some example missions, and then provide some free tools to further extend the sandbox? Oh and then they continue to support and improve the sandbox. I'm sure thats what you must have meant? For the price I think I rather like that they don't "stay the hell out of " my way, it's why I am a repreat customer

@ NoRailgunner

Good list

Specifically add to point 2... a medic who comes when called, not when HE decides it's ok. I'll make the decisions on risk thanks :)

@ Avibird... I think the modern etiquette is coffee, biscuits and group hugs now lol

Edited February 23, 2010 by Gen_Protection

[Rak 0]

ArmA needs it's "iconical" multiplayer game-mode to be more popular. And no, Warfare is far from it. It has to be pure PvP.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Lack of entry into the console market.

For which BIS need a business plan that does not expose them to the current raft of console publishers who do not like the BIS business model. Though I think there are some who could take on the concept and have business model in mind that would solve that.

Lack of marketing and advertising.

This last would crack the PC market if done right.

Operation Arrowhead provides the opportunity to test the market and advertising business model.

Carrier Command: Gaea Mission provides the best point at which to enter the console market.

BUT IMHO BIS need to make a game changing business model in the form of an entry strategy that allows any users to create content and allows the game engine to be licensed to both user created content driven products at a high percentage to BIS and the sale of market segmenting licenses as a business model for the developer and publisher market. The first company to succeed at that business model will become the Microsoft and Google and Apple I concept of the games world.

Kind Regards walker

Edited February 23, 2010 by walker

[An Fiach 10]

You mean they "BIS" provide an open sandbox type toolset, then provide lots of info on how to use it (free), then give some example missions, and then provide some free tools to further extend the sandbox? Oh and then they continue to support and improve the sandbox. I'm sure thats what you must have meant? For the price I think I rather like that they don't "stay the hell out of " my way, it's why I am a repreat customer

@ NoRailgunner

Good list

Specifically add to point 2... a medic who comes when called, not when HE decides it's ok. I'll make the decisions on risk thanks :)

@ Avibird... I think the modern etiquette is coffee, biscuits and group hugs now lol

They give us the tools and don't try to force us into playing or modding in any particular way.

[jctrnacty 10]

I think BIS has a huge oportunity with OA. If they do it like with first OFP that was very succesful.

Release an optimized demo and get feedback from players. Then release a game with all ideas taken into account.

Release a game with minimum of bugs and a decent SP(i know it´s impossible)

If they would release arma 2 in version 1.05 they could sell a lot more units.

my 2 cents

[jblackrupert 14]

I think Bohemia seriously needs to release a new patched demo.

I've lost count of the number of people who were honesly interested in giving Arma 2 a shot despite the steep learning curve but were scared off by the bugfest in the demo.

The second largest problem I see is Domination. Theres just not enough PvP servers

running "noob" friendler games like Berzerk and Advance and Secure.

Many of the people I see who did buy Arma 2 and slagging it because Domination play

was like a punch in the head first time out and since theres so many of them they never

noticed there were modes that let you ease into the game.

[avibird 1 154]

Hi all

Lack of entry into the console market.

For which BIS need a business plan that does not expose them to the current raft of console publishers who do not like the BIS business model. Though I think there are some who could take on the concept and have business model in mind that would solve that.

Lack of marketing and advertising.

This last would crack the PC market if done right.

Operation Arrowhead provides the opportunity to test the market and advertising business model.

Carrier Command: Gaea Mission provides the best point at which to enter the console market.

BUT IMHO BIS need to make a game changing business model in the form of an entry strategy that allows any users to create content and allows the game engine to be licensed to both user created content driven products at a high percentage to BIS and the sale of market segmenting licenses as a business model for the developer and publisher market. The first company to succeed at that business model will become the Microsoft and Google and Apple I concept of the games world.

Kind Regards walker

MR. Walker, I am so happy YOU said it and not ME. (Lack of entry into the console market) Most members of this forum would have ripped me a new A-HOLE for a statement like that as well as the MODERATOR OUT OF CONTROL lol.

Now we have AVIBIRD'S TOP 10 LIST why this game is not more popular.

1. Lack of player vs player modes out of the box that work right.

2. Lack of entry into the console market.

3. Major bugs from the initial release of the game. (yes most will be fix by BOHEMIA or the community in time)

4. Poor performance issues right out of the box using most hardware and a lot of time to get the game running right for most players.

5. No good system for addon/MOD's to help new players to join in some r.

6. Poor/lack of advertisement with mainstream players.

7. Not true reviews of the real gameplay from the start due to 1 & 2 above.

8. Lack of good games in public rooms.

9. LacK of vet players around to help new players in public rooms

10 Over all player movemnts needs to be modified to speed things up a liitle. This is a fine line. I am not talking about a jump key lol but just a bit faster with all maneuvering in the game world.

[whisper 0]

Where do you live?

France. I don't think there's a lack of close ArmA2 player in europe, if you ask me

[instagoat 133]

To be fair, though, I know of at least one Games Magazine that has revisited Arma 2 with the release of 1.05: Gamestar, in Germany. They have upped the score from a previous 72 to 76 (Equal score as the other game)

Their main points of criticism remain, though, which is the unintuitive interface, and the persistingly erratic AI. (Moments of brilliance, lots of solid mediocricy, but very often very bad judgements: Cars crashing into each other or falling off the roads, Tanks tipping over, AI hiding on the wrong side of teh cover, ignoring kill-zones or immediate threats such as Tanks emerging right in front of them, crashing helicopters and a lack of a more solid command system, instead of having to baby-sit the AI all the time.)

The biggest problems for me in this game remain the performance, which is solid enough if you want to sacrifice some of the good looks, but once missions get bigger I rarely get above the 20 fps mark, the inconsistent AI and the lack of a task-based command system. I can live with complexity and the depth is appreciated, but it needs to be more logical and task oriented.

I have shown the game to all my friends to get them to play it, some ten-ish people, and of those only two picked it up. The rest don´t like the performance, or didn´t want to put up with the command system and the interface.

Especially if the Game is supposed to go to console, this needs to be changed. Less is more!

[Zipper5 74]

5. No good system for addon/MOD's to help new players to join in some r.

I thought simply adding -mod= to your ArmA II shortcut's target line was a pretty easy way for new people. Was for me...

6. Poor/lack of advertisement with mainstream players.

We saw how trying to get mainstream players to play milsims worked with "that other game". I'd like to keep your typical mainstream gamer as far away from this as possible.

10 Over all player movemnts needs to be modified to speed things up a liitle. This is a fine line. I am not talking about a jump key lol but just a bit faster with all maneuvering in the game world.

I recall reading that the way that people move in ArmA II is on par with Olympic athletes, so you can imagine what they are in games like MW2 and such.

The rest of your points I do more-or-less agree with. Just got to be careful, again, with appealing to the mainstream with a console version...

I wouldn't recommend questioning how the forum is moderated by the way. ;)

Edited February 23, 2010 by Zipper5

[Gen_Protection 10]

hmm to be fair I already gave my goodpoints... but now my bad points, to be balanced.

Normally I have little interest in SP campaigns, but am giving the one shipped with Arma2 a blast.

Now bearing in mind I could be considered a fan of BIS IE I purchase ofp, res, arma1, arma2. But in about the 4th (ish) arma2 campaign mission I am chasing about the country looking for some high ranking bad dudes with very little info as to where they are.

Point 1 its a bit like hunt the needle in the haystack, and gets tedious pretty quick. Maybe I bought cluedo by mistake?

Point 2 and this one drives me crazy.

My 3 ai decided to go inside the keep of the castle. They will not come out, I try everything; return to formation, standing, crawling, advance when at door. etc etc... but no they aint coming out, the closest i get is one climbing the stairs even when in the doorway looking out,and told to advance or move in the compass direction he is already facing IE straight out of the doorway. very exasperating;... I got so teed off I tried for 20 mins and still no luck. Frankly I cant be arsed to restart the mission and replay an hour to get back to where I was.

The AI in ofp were not exactly rocket scientists, but at least they could be got out of buildings. (maybe this is why there are so few enterable buildings in arma2?hmm or is it cos if you walk sideways out of a door to give cover your weapon jams in the door and you can't move sideways lol Has my AI put on weight as he has got older?)

Even as a long time user this is very tedious as now I have to backtrack some 1Hour just to have ANY team left for the whole of the remaining campaign.

To be fair if I was new to the "series" I would seriously question the likelyhood of me wanting to continue the campaign, and at the least would now be no longer positive, but moving to dissappointed/dissheartened with what I have purchased. Luckily I have a history with BIS software so will continue, but the campaign is now off limits to me it's bugs have effectively left me with little trust in what the rest of the campaign will dump on me.

So if I was a new user this would be the potential turning point of interest and faith in my purchase, (and I am what about 3 hours only into the campaign) given a few more problems and I can quite see how new users may be hard to keep. If they arent very quickly into online team play etc then from what I can see they are going to struggle to remain interested due to some fundamental problems. Even joining online coop is tricky for a "newb" as without a fair amount of offline practice/learning they are going to struggle to learn the ropes fast enough to not be a millstone around any teams neck. (no offence to new users intended, we have all been there)

I guess for me I could summarise it as. If the Campaign has big showstooper bugs like this I fail to see how a large proportion of new users won't just give up, shrug and simply not purchase another BIS product in the future. After all the Campaign is a large part of what they have to work with initially as a new user. Thats a real shame for the new user/ BIS/ Us the longer term members of the community.

OK said my piece I'm off to shoot my medic now for disobeying orders and letting me die, due to his ramboing rather than letting the rest of the ai cover and him actually follow orders and heal me before I die! (don't remember this problem in ofp?) Maybe I should make missions where all the squad are medics lol

I keep the faith, but I fail to see how new users have much hope of becoming "converts" with the initial impression they may be getting.

(for some odd reason the recent Toyota car recalls spring to mind?)

Gen :(

Edited February 23, 2010 by Gen_Protection

[SpyderPB6 10]

The main reason is marketing.

Done.

[avibird 1 154]

I thought simply adding -mod= to your ArmA II shortcut's target line was a pretty easy way for new people. Was for me...

Yes, but you are a vet to the OFP/AMRA games and you know your way around new players do not. That is the point.

We saw how trying to get mainstream players to play milsims worked with "that other game". I'd like to keep your typical mainstream gamer as far away from this as possible.

First, This is not about ARMA2 VS OFPDR and yes most mainstream (FPS) gamers will not like this type of game. This type of game will never have COD/BF numbers but OFPDR sold very well on both PC and the console markets. The reason why OFPDR was a flop,bust,dud,lemon and loser was because of the broke incomplete game codemasters released and the lack of support to the game/community.

I recall reading that the way that people move in ArmA II is on par with Olympic athletes, so you can imagine what they are in games like MW2 and such.

Now you are just being stupid here! You know what people mean. We do not what a jump botton but the overall movements needs to be a little smoother in general with gameplay.

The rest of your points I do more-or-less agree with. Just got to be careful, again, with appealing to the mainstream with a console version...

I am gald that you see some of my views. I would agree with you that this game is not for most mainstream players but a good number of new players both PC and console want this type of game. The new PC players just need more help to allow them to see what this game has to offer like no other game and the console players are just waiting for a chance (please no comments just get a PC. This is not about PC vs console. This is about why the game is not more popular).

I wouldn't recommend questioning how the forum is moderated by the way. ;)

I never did. My comment was between me and two of the moderators that we had with PM's and I was the one who gave him the sig. It was a joke did you not see the LOL after it.

I think BOHEMIA is a great company who makes a great product but the question of this thread was why is this game not more popular. Yes we know this game is not for everyone due to the slow pace and realistic gameplay but more players should be online with this game and that is a fact.

This is a good list of why.

1. Lack of player vs player modes out of the box that work right.

2. Lack of entry into the console market.

3. Major bugs from the initial release of the game. (yes most will be fix by BOHEMIA or the community in time)

4. Poor performance issues right out of the box using most hardware and a lot of time to get the game running right for most players.

5. No good system for addon/MOD's to help new players to join in some r.

6. Poor/lack of advertisement with mainstream players.

7. Not true reviews of the real gameplay from the start due to 1 & 2 above.

8. Lack of good games in public rooms.

9. LacK of vet players around to help new players in public rooms

10 Over all player movemnts needs to be modified to speed things up a liitle. This is a fine line. I am not talking about a jump key lol but just a bit faster with all maneuvering in the game world.

Edited February 23, 2010 by AVIBIRD 1

[LugNut 10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVIBIRD 1

5. No good system for addon/MOD's to help new players to join in some r.

I thought simply adding -mod= to your ArmA II shortcut's target line was a pretty easy way for new people. Was for me...

Zipper5 this is not a dig at you personally, but it is indicative of many of the comments I've read here from the "It's not hard, I figured it out, just do XYZ" camp. I think it's pretty lame that you have to join a forum or two and wade through a zillion threads to figure out how to install and run client side mods correctly just so you can join and play MP. You should be able to load the game out of the box and join MP servers, modded or not.

Not to mention that you have to join this forum and wade through a zillion more posts just to get it running halfway decently. The game play itself can be difficult and it will still be popular, but it shouldn't be difficult just to get it up and running good enough to play.

That's what's killed it for most of the people I know who gave up on it. It's not so much "I've been playing 5 minutes and haven't killed anybody!" It's "I've been at this for hours and just want to play the freakin game!"

Edited February 23, 2010 by LugNut

[bummer 10]

i figured out the real reason this game is not more popular: Its this community!

It appears from all the posts ive read you dont want it to be popular! You tell the people with reasonable complaints that there stupid and if they just did this or that its the best game ever invented! But you dont want the casual gamer to play because all he wants is a run and gun shooter and we dont want " those " kind of people playing "our" game! ive playe cod ,moh , ofp , dr , arma , arma2 , there all just games that cater to a certain type of player with good points and bad points but here there are no bad points , and if there are , there arent - its the users fault he's not smart enough to figure out how to make the complex simple!

some complain about clunky controls , response is what you want a bunny hop button!

some complain about a complex order menu , response is its not hard your just not smart enough to figure it out!

Some complain the graphics are hard on the system , response is well you should by a top of the line computer because your just to cheap to have whats needed to play "our" game!

Now i know there are some helpful people here who try to help but the overwhelming feeling I get from reading these is the above attitude. I know there is no cure for this but this is the opinion i get from what i read. Its a good game with a lot of promise but too many bugs for the average player but the average player isnt who you want , so thats why this game isnt more popular.

let the bashing begin! :-)

[galzohar 31]

I'd change the "lack of PvP modes right out of the box" to "lack of any good missions that really take advantage of what this game has to offer for either PvP or COOP right out the box". I mean PvP missions are lacking, but COOP missions are lacking just as badly (well, almost, you have that wizard to make a quick coop like the one in the demo which is rather playable).

I thought simply adding -mod= to your ArmA II shortcut's target line was a pretty easy way for new people. Was for me...

Just run around your block and do a survey on how many people even have a clue wtf a shortcut's target line is, and once you recover from the shock, come back and try say that again.

[An Fiach 10]

France. I don't think there's a lack of close ArmA2 player in europe, if you ask me

Probably not.

---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

i figured out the real reason this game is not more popular: Its this community!

It appears from all the posts ive read you dont want it to be popular! You tell the people with reasonable complaints that there stupid and if they just did this or that its the best game ever invented! But you dont want the casual gamer to play because all he wants is a run and gun shooter and we dont want " those " kind of people playing "our" game! ive playe cod ,moh , ofp , dr , arma , arma2 , there all just games that cater to a certain type of player with good points and bad points but here there are no bad points , and if there are , there arent - its the users fault he's not smart enough to figure out how to make the complex simple!

some complain about clunky controls , response is what you want a bunny hop button!

some complain about a complex order menu , response is its not hard your just not smart enough to figure it out!

Some complain the graphics are hard on the system , response is well you should by a top of the line computer because your just to cheap to have whats needed to play "our" game!

Now i know there are some helpful people here who try to help but the overwhelming feeling I get from reading these is the above attitude. I know there is no cure for this but this is the opinion i get from what i read. Its a good game with a lot of promise but too many bugs for the average player but the average player isnt who you want , so thats why this game isnt more popular.

let the bashing begin! :-)

I agree about the bugs, well, at release at least. The rest can be summed up as people coming to this game for something different while expecting it to be the same as the games they are used to, go figure. You can't come to a game based upon realism and be put off that it doesn't work like an arcade game. If I put up a mission called Police Call on my ultra realism server, whose fault is it if people are disappointed that they find themselves picking up trash in a parking lot and not playing cops and robbers?

[NoRailgunner 0]

Question is: how BIS can get new players addicted to their games without making the games too easy/"accessible"?

After installing a new "discovered" game players are usually playing some default missions to get a grip of mechanics and how stuff works. Thats one bigpoint where BIS can improve.

Another bigpoint is advertising the game and its features before release - somehow I missed some teasers showing what people can do using the editor, or even show some work of the community eg islands, vehicles, missions etc.

Imho quality and more testing + bugfixing is the key to success in sim genre.

[Bulldogs 10]

I think it's a case of making the game more accessable without making the gameplay overly arcade. By "more accessable" I don't mean the game play, I mean things like making the video options easier to understand and better tweaked (like chosing medium settings should probably leave anti-aliasing off by default), and things like having a section in the main menu for activating/deactivating mod. The "-mod=" thing is very easy, but most people are going to start the game, not look at any forums and not realise how much mod support their is.

Other small tweaks too just to make it more informative. The training missions are good but they don't explain much to new players.

It's kind of a fine line really. A large amount of the population don't have the thought process to think what they have to do to load and tweak Arma 2 to get it running right (and nor should they have to), but the issue being that this same number of the population don't have the thought process to handle Arma 2. So if you do dumb it down it'll allow people to get into it more, but once they do they won't last.

A possiblity for easier faze in is to put a low difficulty mode that actually adds more dispersion to the AI. Then add things like if you are dying a lot it gives you a suggestion to try an easier level of difficulty. If you've been playing easy for a while it gives you suggestions between levels of something like "why not try a real challenge of simulation difficulty"

[wamingo 1]

I thought simply adding -mod= to your ArmA II shortcut's target line was a pretty easy way for new people. Was for me...

Pretty easy ain't easy enough. In today's age mods are enabled through an interface, not a commandline. This is the type of polish that people expect today. Every corner must be rounded, waxed and polished, then waxed and polished some more.

[Zipper5 74]

Yes, but you are a vet to the OFP/AMRA games and you know your way around new players do not. That is the point.

I figured out how to do the -mod= thing when I first discovered OFP.info and installed my first OFP addon ever which, if I recall correctly, was the very first leaning mod. I never asked on any forum, I simply followed the broken-English instructions in the mod's readme. This was when I was probably... 11 or 12, and I knew almost nothing about computers back then and even less about OFP. If it's easy for me at that age and not for people at the age of 20 and above, then people seriously have an issue...

And I am not over-exaggerating in any way, shape, or form.

Now you are just being stupid here! You know what people mean. We do not what a jump botton but the overall movements needs to be a little smoother in general with gameplay.

If you look at how much gear your regular soldier wears, even the amount they wear in ArmA II, you will see that they actually run pretty damn fast when carrying all that weight compared to how they would run in real life. Granted they may run that fast when their life depends on it, but I'm pretty sure they'd avoid it whenever they could. I agree that they could be smoother, for sure, but not faster. And I honestly can't see how you meant something different:

10 Over all player movemnts needs to be modified to speed things up a liitle.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Zipper5