Mid east

[Balschoiw 0]

rocks are very common in street useage. Experienced that a lot in african country. But they dont hurt you. They are annoying, but that´s all. standard combat gear makes them effective like flies, but nothing more. To react to stone throwing juveniles with firing (even plastic projectiles) is pure overreaction. Kids can be shot in firefights when thiungs get out of control and strafe fire is used, but any trained soldier should get the difference between a 8 year old kid and a grown up even on 300m´s. The fact that very much kids are shot on the palestinian side only can be summed in intentional killings and shootings. No way to go around this.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (supah @ Dec. 27 2002,15:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If the IDF replies with non-lethal rounds (rubber bullits and teargas)<span id='postcolor'>

rubber bullets ....

well , most of the rubber bullets i know are 5.56 rubber bullets on a normal 5.56 nato casing ...

never fired any , but i sincerely hope they don't use the same powder charge as a 5.56 FMJ would .......

and teargas is lethal to persons with asthma or respiratory difficulties , and in big doses , it can be dangerous for health and causing eye cessities

rocks aren't dangerous when thrown at yout when you're wearing a class III body armor and a kevlar helmet

[KingBeast 0]

Rocks can be pretty deadly, even to soldiers in combat gear. After all, i dont think many soldiers have any face protection at all. A rock thrown at your face is going to hurt, and could blind you and such. But for the most part, rocks are not really much of a risk

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Dec. 28 2002,20:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rocks can be pretty deadly, even to soldiers in combat gear. After all, i dont think many soldiers have any face protection at all. A rock thrown at your face is going to hurt, and could blind you and such. But for the most part, rocks are not really much of a risk  <span id='postcolor'>

explain me how you aim a rock at a distance of 20/50 meters

harder than aiming with a rifle ain't it ?

and there's a really low probability of being hit by a un-aimed rock , especially in the face

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Dec. 28 2002,21:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">explain me how you aim a rock at a distance of 20/50 meters<span id='postcolor'>

Just as stray bullets will eventually hit bystanders, sufficient numbers of rocks thrown will hit their targets. Fact is it's happened too often. Besides, the majority of events here are not problems of throwing rocks.

Oh, some pics to demonstrate what I mean:

[mr. Duck 0]

Don't the Israeli troops have some kind of face protection or are those things only issued to the riot police?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (mr. Duck @ Dec. 28 2002,22:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Don't the Israeli troops have some kind of face protection or are those things only issued to the riot police?<span id='postcolor'>

The only IDF soldiers I've seen with full face protection are bomb disposal personnel.

Remember that many of the events that had rock throwing, also include molotov bottle throwing and shooting from behind the crowds.

I would assume that full face protection imposes visual limitations that would endanger soldiers even more.

[Balschoiw 0]

Hmmm this is what I found:

On every pic they have body protection like vests and helmets with protecting glass. I dont think they are all bomb squad members.

Again I could post a lot of pics that show the dammage plastic ammo does to kids, but this is not asllowed at this forum. search on google. You will find plenty.

Besides this the following story is very interesting:

Israel on Tuesday tacitly admitted that doctors at the Israeli forensic

institute at Abu Kabir had extracted the vital organs of three Palestinian

teenage children killed by the Israeli army nearly ten days ago.

Israeli Minister of Health Nessim Dahhan said in response to a question by

Arab Knesset Member Ahmed Teibi that he couldn't deny that organs of

Palestinian youths and children killed by the Israeli forces were taken out

for transplants or scientific research.

"I couldn't say for sure that something like that (taking out the organs)

didn't happen."

Teibi said he had received credible evidence proving that Israeli doctors

at the forensic institute extracted such vital organs as the heart,

kidneys, and liver from the bodies of Palestinian youths and children

killed by the Israeli army in Gaza and the West bank.

The Israeli authorities normally detain the bodies of martyred Palestinians

for a few days without any explanation.

The Israeli army on 30 December killed three Palestinian boys, aged 14-15

near Khan Younis in unclear circumstances.

The army issued conflicting reports on the killing, while Palestinian

sources charged that Israeli troops murdered the three unarmed boys in cold

blood.

The bodies of the three boys were handed over to the Palestinians for

burial on 6 January.

However, shortly before burial, Palestinian medical authorities examined

the bodies and found out that the main vital organs were absent from their

bodies.

The Israeli media has nearly completely ignored the affair

This is disgusting. Again, the pictures dont meet the forum rules but google will take you there.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 29 2002,13:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmmm this is what I found:

http://www.ummah.net/inewsle....on4.jpg

http://www.ummah.net/inewsle....on6.jpg

http://www.ummah.net/inewsle....boy.jpg<span id='postcolor'>

Point being?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

On every pic they have body protection like vests and helmets with protecting glass. I dont think they are all bomb squad members.<span id='postcolor'>

Vests, yes. Glass visor helmets, as you can see, only one of the pictures shows them.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Again I could post a lot of pics that show the dammage plastic ammo does to kids,<span id='postcolor'>

It damages rioting adults, too. Simple lessons are:

1. Don't riot.

2. Don't encourage and allow kids to participate.

Just as you'll find plenty on Israel's side.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Besides this the following story is very interesting:

Israel on Tuesday tacitly admitted that doctors at the Israeli forensic institute at Abu Kabir had extracted the vital organs of three Palestinian teenage children killed by the Israeli army nearly ten days ago.<span id='postcolor'>

If it'll make you any happier, Dr. Hiss, the director of Abu Kabir has done this to many more Israelis, including numerous IDF soldiers, that he's had a chance to do to Arabs.

He is despised here and is/was under government and police investigation. You can find a list of recent articles here. More recent articles against Dr. Hiss were reported in the papers in mid-November, about the selling of organs out of Abu Kabir.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Israeli media has nearly completely ignored the affair<span id='postcolor'>

They haven't hushed anything over until now and I do not see why this wouldn't be mentioned as well. Could pop up a day or two from now, if it hasn't been reported yet.

The bad things happening in Abu Kabir, under Dr. Hiss's management are hardly news here.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is disgusting.<span id='postcolor'>

We're all disgusted here. We're also disgusted by the police dragging out the interrogation and by the courts not suspending Dr. Hiss, considerring the overwhelming number of cases and evidence presented against him.

Obviously someone high up in the police/justice system wants this lowlife to stay where he is or at least doesn't want to antagonize him, possibly because he's been involved with so many major incidents, including for example, the post mortem of Yizhak Rabin.

I wish the man hell. The sooner, the better.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 29 2002,13:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Israeli media has nearly completely ignored the affair<span id='postcolor'>

BTW, where are you quoting from on this recent event at Abu Kabir?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,14:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Simple lessons are:

1. Don't riot.

2. Don't encourage and allow kids to participate.<span id='postcolor'>

Another child was killed today. Lessons still not learned. Actually, the recent lessons being given by Arafat's Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade just go to show why PA kids are so involved.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Vests, yes. Glass visor helmets, as you can see, only one of the pictures shows them.<span id='postcolor'>

All 3 show them.

Alk Aqusa is not related to Arafat and is not controlled by him.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, where are you quoting from on this recent event at Abu Kabir?<span id='postcolor'>

No the incident happend while ago and it was even reported in german and international media, but as it seems not in Israel.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 29 2002,16:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All 3 show them.<span id='postcolor'>

I stand corrected. I see them now. I assume these are given out to troops directly handling riots as I don't think you'll see them on soldiers in comabt action.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Alk Aqusa is not related to Arafat and is not controlled by him.<span id='postcolor'>

Please don't make us laugh here.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, where are you quoting from on this recent event at Abu Kabir?<span id='postcolor'>

No the incident happend while ago and it was even reported in german and international media, but as it seems not in Israel<span id='postcolor'>

For that matter, I never heard of it before anywhere except for your quote. International media? I read the news all around and this particular story just doesn't ring a bell.

That's not to lessen my opinion of everything that's been going on in the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute. Like I said, they don't distinguish between Israeli or Arab cadavres. They're an equal opportunity agency.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,13:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Simple lessons are:

1. Don't riot.<span id='postcolor'>

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Dec. 29 2002,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,13:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Simple lessons are:

1. Don't riot.<span id='postcolor'>

<span id='postcolor'>

Lesson to be learned:

Don't mess with God's chosen.

Thank you Bernadotte.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Don't mess with God's chosen.<span id='postcolor'>

By the way, why do some people write "G-d" without the letter o?

Does it have anything to do with one of the 10 commandments?

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Dec. 29 2002,17:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Don't mess with God's chosen.<span id='postcolor'>

By the way, why do some people write "G-d" without the letter o?

Does it have anything to do with one of the 10 commandments?<span id='postcolor'>

yeah , i don't think it's in the 10 commendements , but jews normally aren't allowed to pronounce god's name , or something like that

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">why do some people write "G-d" without the letter o<span id='postcolor'>

Mabey they use it as a shortening?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Dec. 29 2002,18:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Dec. 29 2002,17:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Don't mess with God's chosen.<span id='postcolor'>

By the way, why do some people write "G-d" without the letter o?

Does it have anything to do with one of the 10 commandments?<span id='postcolor'>

yeah , i don't think it's in the 10 commendements , but jews normally aren't allowed to pronounce god's name , or something like that<span id='postcolor'>

Well, all very close. One is not allowed to use any of G-d's actual names in vain. Whether this applies to His name in languages other than Hebrew is a subject that is of lengthy discussion and this is the wrong thread for it anyway.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,11:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Dec. 29 2002,18:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Dec. 29 2002,17:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Don't mess with God's chosen.<span id='postcolor'>

By the way, why do some people write "G-d" without the letter o?

Does it have anything to do with one of the 10 commandments?<span id='postcolor'>

yeah , i don't think it's in the 10 commendements , but jews normally aren't allowed to pronounce god's name , or something like that<span id='postcolor'>

Well, all very close. One is not allowed to use any of G-d's actual names in vain. Whether this applies to His name in languages other than Hebrew is a subject that is of lengthy discussion and this is the wrong thread for it anyway. <span id='postcolor'>

I wonder why they fear god this much, they must have had a reason.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Dec. 29 2002,18:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder why they fear god this much, they must have had a reason.  <span id='postcolor'>

Now you've done it!

[bn880 5]

3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 29 2002,123)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Dec. 29 2002,18:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder why they fear god this much, they must have had a reason. <span id='postcolor'>

Now you've done it! <span id='postcolor'>

You see, god knows who to socialize with.

EDIT: Ok, no more off topic stuff from me.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For that matter, I never heard of it before anywhere except for your quote. International media? I read the news all around and this particular story just doesn't ring a bell.

<span id='postcolor'>

http://www.iap.org/

http://www.nodo50.org/resumen

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iapinfo/message/2568

I will also private mail a message with a link, but I cant post it open cause it contains images of mutalized humans.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 29 2002,21:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For that matter, I never heard of it before anywhere except for your quote. International media? I read the news all around and this particular story just doesn't ring a bell.

<span id='postcolor'>

http://www.iap.org/

http://www.nodo50.org/resumen

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iapinfo/message/2568<span id='postcolor'>

This is your idea of the "international press"?

BTW, the fact that they have quotes from Health Minister Dahan means that, if it's true, it most likely was in the local press.

The item is dated early last January. This is the same time that there was a demand for a police investigation. So it could very well be that this was in the local papers, along with all the other accusations against Hiss and the Abu Kabir institute.

Like I said, this is old news and disgusting to all. In fact, speaking of Health Minister Dahan, he himself described the Health Ministry's initial findings as "highly critical". See this Nov. 2001 article.

[Balschoiw 0]

Ok I see that he has been removed but still the question why trained soldiers target kids although they only represent a minor threat at all is unanswered. All that deaths among juveniles and kids cant be false fire or victims of undirected fire.

In my opinion there is an intention behind it. It would not be the first time in planets history that the youth is the target for attacks. If you remember toy mines and death squadrons that intentionally kill or hurt kids and teens to get the following generation out of conflict or decimate them by numbers. Avon I want your seriouse opinion on this please.

No offense to you or your government but the numbers are way to high to be accidents.