Operation Arrowhead Needs to add a cover system.

[welcome to hell 23]

ArmA 2 absolutely needs a cover system!

I think it is the element that was lacking since OFP days in a game of this scale!

I was disappointed when ArmA 2 did not emphasize on this issue, even thou it is a fantastic game.

Leaning is Ok, but it needs to be fluid, also player is limited to 3 sets of vertical stances, most of my deaths occurred because i was standing to look over a tiny fence or where i had to crouch to look over the bushes.

My biggest wish for Arrowhead is a cover system.

Add Y - axis leaning and make it fluid same for the X - axis!

Edited November 17, 2009 by Welcome To Hell

[Ish 11]

Stopped reading at "realistic shooter"...

[metsapeikkoo 10]

So, basically, there is no need for this more or less pointless feature.

[Master gamawa 0]

Did you now that you can bend over behind cover by pointing your mouse down when you are crouched? You probably think that when you look down, the camera just changes angle when in fact your whole body leans forward behind the cover.

That way you can quickly peek over your cover, send a few rounds down and hide again without pressing any buttons.

I didn't know that until someone mentioned it. You can see how it works by using the 3rd person view.

What I am trying to say is that, yes, we do have three stances only but because the player camera isn't just floating in the air but attached to an actual animated body, it follows the animations thus giving you more positions in between the three stances.

Little details like this make Arma the magnificent mofo of a game that it is.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Master gamawa

[welcome to hell 23]

Stopped reading at "realistic shooter"...

Get Out

Of course by shooter i mean a military simulator, where the mixture of vehicles and weapons are accurately represented but not on the level of a flight, armor, driving sim to compose a balanced and pleasant gameplay experience.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

Edited the OP, not to take shit from fanboys defending the game like its their mom.

Also if i am limited to first person using method mentioned in 3rd post is very unwieldy, and it is even more unwieldy between crouch and stand.

[jakerod 254]

Get Out

Of course by shooter i mean a military simulator, where the mixture of vehicles and weapons are accurately represented but not on the level of a flight, armor, driving sim to compose a balanced and pleasant gameplay experience.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

Edited the OP, not to take shit from fanboys defending the game like its their mom.

Also if i am limited to first person using method mentioned in 3rd post is very unwieldy, and it is even more unwieldy between crouch and stand.

You don't have to use 3rd person to do that. He was saying use 3rd person to see how it works. It works in 1st person too but it isn't apparent because you cannot see where your head is.

Another tip for you. Sometimes lowering your gun will make you stand up taller to see over obstacles. I haven't tried it in crouch but it might work there too. I lower my gun to look around corners sometimes or to move further against cover.

[jw custom 56]

I didn't know that until someone mentioned it.

Same here so thanks for the info :)

I'm sure that i'm not the only one who learned something new today :D

It works very well, much faster than going prone and then back to crouch again to return fire.

[Defunkt 431]

I think fully variable stance would be a very welcome addition if only because it would almost certainly also signal an interruptible animation system. Can't see it happening for Arrowhead though.

[maturin 12]

I don't want to locking onto any barrel GoW style.

What would be nice is using the mouse or wasd control just the torso, allowing partial leaning and standing.

If anyone has played Call of Cthulu: Dark Corners of the Earth, they know what I am talking about. There was an (unnecessary) stealth mode that allowed for precise torso movement while stationary using the thumbstick.

It wouldn't be as useful as moving while lean-locked, which is what I do almost always, but it would allow firing from positions that are dangerous right now.

Edited November 16, 2009 by maturin

[Heatseeker 0]

Arma 2 already has a cover system, you see the cover, you move to cover and you put yourself behind cover. It works great :) .

[welcome to hell 23]

Arma 2 already has a cover system, you see the cover, you move to cover and you put yourself behind cover. It works great :) .

:clap:

Every FPS has that, its called moving behind an object.

We need a cover system where players interact with objects they are behind, so player can adjust his body to the shape orientation and position of the object he is behind, also do actions like lean out/pop out and shoot and blindfire.

:868:

- Not just HURR i am behind a sandbag and i can't shoot but my head is sticking out, asking for a Bullet.

[Maddmatt 1]

Hell no. A 3rd person cover system like GTA4 where you can accurately "blindfire"? Is this a joke?

I played through GTA4 and was easily getting headshots using "blindfire".

A 1st person system like Call of Jaurez maybe. Although I haven't seen it in action myself.

Cover systems are really just a console game feature where leaning would take up too many buttons. ArmA 2 already has lean and the no so well known ability where you duck and lean forward by looking down.

[dmakatra 1]

There's really no reason to implement a cover system. It just makes the game world stale and gamey. Other stuff needs improving in the cover department instead. Like the way AI uses cover. And more terrain-based cover altogether (smaller cell-sizes?).

[Bravo0246 0]

I believe the new Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad has pretty good cover system, not out yet though but i'll find video.

About 3 minutes shows cover.

[welcome to hell 23]

Here is a video that demonstrates system in Call of Juarez, system in Red Orchestra 2 is just as good and would add to that.

There's really no reason to implement a cover system. It just makes the game world stale and gamey.

And how does it make it less realistic and stale?

Realistic game has features that a human can preform in real life and i don't see how hugging the wall, peaking around the corner just as much as i need, leaning with my sights up around cover just as much as i need to expose the least area of my body when taking a shot, and pulling the gun up with my hands to blind fire is unrealistic.

Whats stale and gamey is exposing half of my body to take a shot, while it could be just the arms and the head. Stale and gamey is the robotic 3 stances with no useful way to blend between them except the unwieldy hyper duck .

Edited November 17, 2009 by Welcome To Hell

[dayglow 2]

Varible lean works with track IR. Would love to see vertical lean as well with track IR.

[dmakatra 1]

Here is a video that demonstrates system in Call of Juarez, system in Red Orchestra 2 is just as good and would add to that.

And how does it make it less realistic and stale?

Realistic game has features that a human can preform in real life and i don't see how hugging the wall, peaking around the corner just as much as i need, leaning with my sights up around cover just as much as i need to expose the least area of my body when taking a shot, and pulling the gun up with my hands to blind fire is unrealistic.

Whats stale and gamey is exposing half of my body to take a shot, while it could be just the arms and the head. Stale and gamey is the robotic 3 stances with no useful way to blend between them except the unwieldy hyper duck .

I did not mean gamey as in unrealistic. I meant gamey as in unimmersive - the feeling of playing a game instead of being immersed in the world. That's because you get the feeling (at least from the games with cover systems that I've tried) of being glued or stuck to the cover. I'm all for vertical positioning (and proper weapon collision!), but I don't like the idea of pressing a button to take cover.

[dunedain 48]

Ro2's cover system seems really good, this game will have everything that lack on tactical shooters since Infiltration on UT99.

I also played Call of Juarez 2 and its cover system wasn't as good as what the future hit of Tripwire Interactive shows now.

I would for sure appreciate this on the "Ultimate Military Simulation", with the capability of firing from vehicle would be the least.

Edited November 17, 2009 by dunedain

[EricM 0]

I think he's talking of "fluid stance" or "progressive" or "context sensitive" stance adjustment, just like you can experience with lean if you have track IR... (instead of all or nothing, you can peak just the right amount...)

I agree that would be nice and I don't think this is a technical problem as bis already did it for lean, but rather a question of ergonomy.

How do you make it user friendly without something like a Track IR ? You need an "analogical" input device, and the mouse-wheel is already used for menu scrolling...

If you don't have track IR-like device and try to make that automatic/context sensitive, THEN it can create all sorts of weird side-effects...

[maddogx 13]

I think the OP is being partially misunderstood because of a poor choice of words. He's basically asking for more interaction with environment objects and a more sophisticated stance system. Words like "cover system" and "shooter" in combination with comparisons to other first and third person shooters will elicit negative reactions here. ;)

Anyway, I think we've all had situations where taking cover behind an object was made difficult due to the rigid stances. Sometimes crouching puts you just a little too high, while going prone will be just a tad too low to shoot from. Any normal person would be able to adjust their posture to compensate, but in Arma2 this is not possible. Of course you can bend over, but that's only good for looking, not shooting, and only really practical with TrackIR. Being able to go into a kind of adjustable squat stance between standing and crouching, and getting on your knees and elbows between crouching and prone would be awesome.

Similarly, being able to interact more with the environment would be great, though I definitely disagree with the "push button to take cover" approach. Interacting with the world should be completely organic, for example resting your weapon on a surface would ideally work by simply placing it there with the mouse. Taking cover behind a chest-high wall (Yahtzee, I hope you're reading this) would work by crouching, turning your back to the wall and then pressing S. Inverse kinematics would do the rest. If you now wanted to peek over the wall, you would turn the mouse to the left or right, swivelling your upper body appropriately, while using the analogue stance to push yourself upward a bit. Finally, you could look over the wall by turning your head.

Edited November 17, 2009 by MadDogX

[welcome to hell 23]

Well one of the OFP mod's had a great solution for that.

While a button toggles the lean stance "Caps Lock" in my preference.

A and D would make the character lean left and right.

The system i imagine:

- Keyboard key toggles fluid stance.

- A | D lean left and right,

- W | S lean down and up. (From prone to knees to crouch to squat to stand)

- The longer player holds the button the further character leans, allowing for fluid movement and precise adjustment.

- If the buttons are tapped player leans in the position instantly allowing for quick cover/return fire.

[Jex =TE= 0]

If game devs persist in making objects all different sizes then they really need to add a more configurable stance. I can't see why anybody wouldn't want this but it needs to be done right and be completely fluid (and realistic - above all!)

Raven shield's fluid stance was pretty good, Vietcong's stance was excellent but still pretty rigid. RO2 is looking good... :)

[Ish 11]

Of course by shooter i mean a military simulator...

Well that's not what you wrote. Am I supposed to guess you mistyped :j:

My point being, what is anyone doing with a game like A2 when he/she is calling it a shooter. Now, obviously that is not what you meant, but how should I know. Don't blame me for your inability too formulate sentences.

[cas 41]

I agree it would be nice with a better cover system for the player but one of the most important things for the game would be a better cover system for the AI!

Right now when you engage the AI they will mostly just stand still and return fire or drop down and return fire. If they begin to move it is mostly because they want to get into a better position to engage you.

What I would like to see is that most of the AI starts to run to the nearest object as soon as shots are fired to bring the object in between the AI and the direction the fire is coming from. After breaking LOS AI should start to reengage. For some units it would be OK to return fire right away.

This behaviour together with an AI that can fire from covered position would make a huge change.

[Jex =TE= 0]

I agree it would be nice with a better cover system for the player but one of the most important things for the game would be a better cover system for the AI!

Right now when you engage the AI they will mostly just stand still and return fire or drop down and return fire. If they begin to move it is mostly because they want to get into a better position to engage you.

What I would like to see is that most of the AI starts to run to the nearest object as soon as shots are fired to bring the object in between the AI and the direction the fire is coming from. After breaking LOS AI should start to reengage. For some units it would be OK to return fire right away.

This behaviour together with an AI that can fire from covered position would make a huge change.

+1 :)