Dragon Rising has been released

[jblackrupert 14]

Some doofus is now blaming Bohemia for DR.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-consoles-1312/402466-templar-stop-building-peoples-hopes.html#post5953593

[max power 21]

Some doofus is now blaming Bohemia for DR.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-consoles-1312/402466-templar-stop-building-peoples-hopes.html#post5953593

I can't even comprehend what that guy is trying to say. It's crazy talk.

BI changed publishers and did their own sequel to the game. It's called ArmA 2. It seems like what he's saying is that the only way CM could have succeeded is if BI did the game for them- or CMs failure was inevitable as soon as it became necessary for them to make an attempt. Shame on BI for not making a business deal that they didn't want to make. It inevitably resulted in CM's flatulently off-putting attempt at a sequel, making everyone and Santa Claus vomit with rage in the process.

[Second 0]

Luhgnut;1525808']

Now drop yourself in as a sniper say 300m from those guys.

Pop off a shot in the general direction of your AI guys.

They will drop to the ground and start looking for you and start suppressing. Some will run around a little because they haven't figure out what just happened. Remember a single shot came whizzing over their heads. The ones in squads will start working you and you'll see them give hand signals. Shoot again' date=' and they really start zeroing in on you.

Do the same in Dragon Rising.....

They will squat on the ground and look at you. (that's it.)[/quote']

Oh really? Funny to see that people with almost zero experience with game and it's editor are making such highly observant notices. Sadly they use only one eye to do that and even more sadly that the eye happens to be blind.

Yes your "points" might make good comedy. Factual side of them is zero, unfortunately.

As fact, they start to manuver against hostile. There's various reaction types. They might start suppressing as whole squad then start manuver as whole squad or keep team or two suppressing as one manuvers. Frameworks of drills they use are taken from quite clearly from (USMC) manual and they base their use of fire and manuver based on enemy they face, so their reactions do vary. My sniper just got killed by team which circled into my flank (as a team not as fecking individuals), while another two were supporting. But i do understand that people who are... well lets say, limited don't see such.

[Andi 10]

One day, I played coop with 3 other guys, a "map" involving some bunker conquering (uphill struggle or something like that). One guy seemed to play this mission a lot since he advised what we should do etc.

There was a vehicle depot. It had 2 APC's and lots of infantry.

He suggested sniping them one by one.

I suggested sneaking in and stealing one APC to kill em all.

He was like :eek:.

I was like :cool:.

I went in, not even sneaking since the AI just stared at me, yelling something Chinese and started to run in circles. I calmly entered the APC and began shooting all the AI, while they started shooting the APC with their rifles. After the deed was done, I just got out again and repaired the APC (how convenient).

We then walked through the mountains since the experienced dude said, the road was too heavily guarded with AT.

So we walked.

It was a long walk.

A damn long walk.

We chatted all kind of nonsense, one guy decided to shoot our own AI and throwing grenades wildly into the landscape.

It was fun, until a patrol showed up.

But they weren't impressed.

So were we.

They just stood with their backs to us, idling.

This guy was like :eek:. He threw a grenade which landed too far off.

The AI just laid down and didn't bother to turn around.

Then we killed them.

So, next we walked straight to the bunker and then the scripts finally kicked in, since we were suddenly surrounded by several squads, firing at us. They just spawned in a perimeter of 200m around us, even from where we just came from and shot us all dead.

It was ridiculous.

I said bye with the guys. Then Alt+F4.

Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add or Remove Programs -> Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising -> Yes -> Yes

End of story.

[jw custom 56]

Oh really? Funny to see that people with almost zero experience with game and it's editor are making such highly observant notices. Sadly they use only one eye to do that and even more sadly that the eye happens to be blind.

Yes your "points" might make good comedy. Factual side of them is zero, unfortunately.

As fact, they start to manuver against hostile. There's various reaction types. They might start suppressing as whole squad then start manuver as whole squad or keep team or two suppressing as one manuvers. Frameworks of drills they use are taken from quite clearly from (USMC) manual and they base their use of fire and manuver based on enemy they face, so their reactions do vary. My sniper just got killed by team which circled into my flank (as a team not as fecking individuals), while another two were supporting. But i do understand that people who are... well lets say, limited don't see such.

Why do your waste your time discussing a game your like here where most people find it crappy. You might have more success on CM's forum ;)

[TimRiceSE 10]

Some doofus is now blaming Bohemia for DR.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-consoles-1312/402466-templar-stop-building-peoples-hopes.html#post5953593

somebody should try correct him a bit...

[Deadfast 43]

Some doofus is now blaming Bohemia for DR.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-consoles-1312/402466-templar-stop-building-peoples-hopes.html#post5953593

Too bad BIS did stay true to their community. He just bought the wrong game :p

[dm 9]

somebody should try correct him a bit...

and then get banned for the trouble? :D :j:

[trickster1982 10]

Oh really? Funny to see that people with almost zero experience with game and it's editor are making such highly observant notices. Sadly they use only one eye to do that and even more sadly that the eye happens to be blind.

Yes your "points" might make good comedy. Factual side of them is zero, unfortunately.

As fact, they start to manuver against hostile. There's various reaction types. They might start suppressing as whole squad then start manuver as whole squad or keep team or two suppressing as one manuvers. Frameworks of drills they use are taken from quite clearly from (USMC) manual and they base their use of fire and manuver based on enemy they face, so their reactions do vary. My sniper just got killed by team which circled into my flank (as a team not as fecking individuals), while another two were supporting. But i do understand that people who are... well lets say, limited don't see such.

I think your a bit wrong there chap, either that or they forgot to include the AI in the demo. After blowing up the radar thing on the demo mission, I turned my attention to that little village below, and most of the enemy troops just stood there while I took shot after shot at them, they made no effort to run for cover, fire back or even acknowledge that they were being fired at!

[jblackrupert 14]

somebody should try correct him a bit...

You'll either get banned like I did for correcting incorrect statements months ago.

Or

They'll just lock the thread before anyone does.

It's now locked..

Here's a video by another happy customer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYBlErG2riQ

Sion Lenton has a cameo at 1:09

Edited December 28, 2009 by jblackrupert

[jw custom 56]

Here's a video by another happy customer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYBlErG2riQ

Sion Lenton has a cameo at 1:09

LMFAO, great stuff

Dragon Rising sure is a crappy game but we must give it credits for making youtube funnier :p

Edited December 28, 2009 by JW Custom

[sesdelta38 10]

It did. Vegas is much worse though, health regen and third person cover system and all of that modern crap.

After Lockdown there was still a bit of hope of Rainbow Six getting good again, but Vegas crushed that dream.

Still, you are right. Lockdown sucks just as much ass.

So does GR:Advanced Warfighter 1 and 2, and what they did to Ghost Recon.

I was sort of wondering why you hated GRAW and Vegas much. I say this because I play GRAW on my xbox 360. I have OFPDR and in my opinon, it's a good game, but it doesn't have a proper multiplayer system and there a few other problems. I can understand why your upset an d why members are upset about DR ruining OFP's reputation. if you guys are wondering, I joined this forum because I want to play ArmA 2 , but I need to build a gaming PC.

Edited December 28, 2009 by sesdelta38

[AndresCL 10]

I was sort of wondering why you hated GRAW and Vegas much. I say this because I play GRAW on my xbox 360. I have OFPDR and in my opinon, it's a good game, but it doesn't have a proper multiplayer system and there a few other problems. I can understand why your upset an d why members are upset about DR ruining OFP's reputation. if you guys are wondering, I joined this forum because I want to play ArmA 2 , but I need to build a gaming PC.

Because Rainbow Six was good until Tom Clancys stop getting involved in the development of the game, thus turning it more of a shooter and less of a tactical fps (GRAW, Vegas). Its a shame, and even more of a shame what happenned with OFP, from a great simulator, to a plain crappy game.

Edited December 28, 2009 by AndresCL

[Madus_Maximus 0]

You'll either get banned like I did for correcting incorrect statements months ago.

Or

They'll just lock the thread before anyone does.

It's now locked..

Here's a video by another happy customer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYBlErG2riQ

Sion Lenton has a cameo at 1:09

I just made this quick vid to show the difference in how long you live with ArmA 2 AI when you run around them lol.

I have no idea what cuases the ghosting effect. It does it no matter what settings I use. Odd.

[sic-disaster 311]

I was sort of wondering why you hated GRAW and Vegas much. I say this because I play GRAW on my xbox 360. I have OFPDR and in my opinon, it's a good game, but it doesn't have a proper multiplayer system and there a few other problems. I can understand why your upset an d why members are upset about DR ruining OFP's reputation. if you guys are wondering, I joined this forum because I want to play ArmA 2 , but I need to build a gaming PC.

Because they dumped everything that made Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon great.

For now i'll just keep Vegas as an example and the things missing from the original games.

- The old R6 games were 1 shot 1 kill games, just as much for tango's as yourself. You got hit, you died, or suffered severe penalties to movement speed or accuracy. Vegas added a health regeneration system, allowing you to recover from everything, and suffer NO penalties at all.

And if a teammate dies, you slap a magical syringe into him and revive him.. need i say more? In original R6 wounded teammembers had to sit out the next mission to recover, and if you got hit bad enough to become combat ineffective but not yet dead, you dropped to the ground unable to fight on, and there was a change you'd die after the mission.

- Old R6 had multiple teams possibility of up to 9 operators, dividable over 4 teams, each with their own route in a tactical planner. In Vegas you get 4 retards following you around.

-Tactical planner. In original R6, you could make an attack plan to the finest details, with simultanious room entries, and all that good stuff that makes a SF squad hit hard. In Vegas, there is NO planner at all, and levels are linear corridors instead of getting a 'freetravel' map where you could choose to go where and when, and how.

- Vegas added a third person cover system, allowing you to see over and around cover (gamey and unrealistic). Granted, OR6 and Rogue Spear had a third person mode but that was only useful for making screenshots and such, and would get you killed if you tried to play that way.

And in general, Vegas is way to Hollywood anyway. Hanging upside down while rappelling and making perfectly accurate headshots? Please.

It's possible to hang upside down while rappelling but as an instructor i can say from experience it hurts, it's very unconvenient and least of all it's fast, let alone trying to shoot a sidearm and actually hitting anything. And you are prone to tangling up, and it's easier to lose grip and fall down if you have no back-up securing you.

- Weapons in Vegas are fake and handle nothing like their real counterparts, even confirmed by the people who developed Vegas, quoting: "We made the guns like people expect them to be from Hollywood movies. Shotguns are very inaccurate and only useful in very close range in Hollywood, so we make our shotguns behave the same way."

Hence the reason why people think it's actually realistic...

- You can make your operators dress in pink in Vegas... lost the footage or picture evidence to that though.

Now compare these video's (made by me, with custom plans made by myself as well) with Vegas footage:

First one is from Raven Shield, the last good Rainbow Six game.

This second vid is from Rogue Spear, the sequal to the original Rainbow Six, featuring basically the exact same gameplay as the original, but with added gameplay features like leaning, sniper support, and stuff like that. (basically what ArmA 2 is to the original Operation Flashpoint)

Now compare with Attila's vids, see how many hits he takes and how many he survives, and how easy it actually is to play alone.

[gulag 10]

Here's a video by another happy customer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYBlErG2riQ

Sion Lenton has a cameo at 1:09

The best DR trailer ever:eek:

[sesdelta38 10]

Because they dumped everything that made Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon great.

For now i'll just keep Vegas as an example and the things missing from the original games.

- The old R6 games were 1 shot 1 kill games, just as much for tango's as yourself. You got hit, you died, or suffered severe penalties to movement speed or accuracy. Vegas added a health regeneration system, allowing you to recover from everything, and suffer NO penalties at all.

And if a teammate dies, you slap a magical syringe into him and revive him.. need i say more? In original R6 wounded teammembers had to sit out the next mission to recover, and if you got hit bad enough to become combat ineffective but not yet dead, you dropped to the ground unable to fight on, and there was a change you'd die after the mission.

- Old R6 had multiple teams possibility of up to 9 operators, dividable over 4 teams, each with their own route in a tactical planner. In Vegas you get 4 retards following you around.

-Tactical planner. In original R6, you could make an attack plan to the finest details, with simultanious room entries, and all that good stuff that makes a SF squad hit hard. In Vegas, there is NO planner at all, and levels are linear corridors instead of getting a 'freetravel' map where you could choose to go where and when, and how.

- Vegas added a third person cover system, allowing you to see over and around cover (gamey and unrealistic). Granted, OR6 and Rogue Spear had a third person mode but that was only useful for making screenshots and such, and would get you killed if you tried to play that way.

And in general, Vegas is way to Hollywood anyway. Hanging upside down while rappelling and making perfectly accurate headshots? Please.

It's possible to hang upside down while rappelling but as an instructor i can say from experience it hurts, it's very unconvenient and least of all it's fast, let alone trying to shoot a sidearm and actually hitting anything. And you are prone to tangling up, and it's easier to lose grip and fall down if you have no back-up securing you.

- Weapons in Vegas are fake and handle nothing like their real counterparts, even confirmed by the people who developed Vegas, quoting: "We made the guns like people expect them to be from Hollywood movies. Shotguns are very inaccurate and only useful in very close range in Hollywood, so we make our shotguns behave the same way."

Hence the reason why people think it's actually realistic...

- You can make your operators dress in pink in Vegas... lost the footage or picture evidence to that though.

Now compare these video's (made by me, with custom plans made by myself as well) with Vegas footage:

First one is from Raven Shield, the last good Rainbow Six game.

This second vid is from Rogue Spear, the sequal to the original Rainbow Six, featuring basically the exact same gameplay as the original, but with added gameplay features like leaning, sniper support, and stuff like that. (basically what ArmA 2 is to the original Operation Flashpoint)

Now compare with Attila's vids, see how many hits he takes and how many he survives, and how easy it actually is to play alone.

Ah, I see. You made me more understanding of this situation. I researched the games on Wikipedia, and I found out that health bars were introduced in the console version of Rainbow Six 3. Also, the PC version of Rainbow Six; Lockdown, didn't have a mission planning phase and was the first game in the series to get rid of the tactical elements. As I said before, I now understand why your upset about this and that's rare, for a console gamer like me. It's also probably best that this thread dies soon. Once I build a gaming PC, I will get ArmA 2 and enjoy true tactical gaming, but I will go through a lot of frustrations, since I'm just 14.

[joey_45 0]

You're still young enough to learn...

[Second 0]

Why do your waste your time discussing a game your like here where most people find it crappy. You might have more success on CM's forum ;)

This forum is part of my internet tour :cool: Besides i've forgot what the £$#! is my password for their forums.

I do like it to some degree, but i'm not very pleased with it. Meaning that i do play it from time to time and having mostly fun moments, but yet mostly feeling sad that CM probably will hang it to dry, instead of fixing it. Common feeling with various shooters: If they would fix this and add that this game might be great, instead of just being okay...

The thing is that there serious issues with game which does exist (CM itself being one of most major ones), while some here does just finds their own fictional flaws.

Why i replied: I saw dmakatra making mature effort and felt need to back up his point of view.

[sesdelta38 10]

You're still young enough to learn...

You do have a point, but it will take a while as I am not well versed in hardcore milsims. I'll be bcack to posting on this forum when i get this game.

[froggyluv 2136]

I don't think CM will ever release THE PATCH, the one that fully fleshes out what the game was intended to be. Too much silence from the devs, too many stupid contests to win a brand new DR tee-shirt.

Still I load it up occasionally because there are a few good features.

1. AI orientation: The AI, though sucky at both shooting and having lame enagagement ranges, are very good at staying oriented to the primary threat. You generallly won't see guys laying in the wrong direction when an assault is coming from the North. If known enemy is indoors, they stay focused on the windows and take the shot if open.

2. Good house breaching: Yes, the houses are small and totally uninteresting, but even without a waypoint command, the AI does a good job of clearing interiors and I've seen them stack both doors before the assault (again without scripting).

3. Belivable AI movement: Squads that I had no command of took up defensive positions around my armour while I was assaulting and then used it as a cover base when I dismounted in a believable way. Another time, while I was hiding in an attic taking pot shots at enemy AI, I heard one enter the building floor below me (good interior movement sounds) and he came halfway up the steps until his eyes were looking at mine and he froze right there on the steps until I fragged him -felt human.

4. Sounds: self explanatory but the sounds are quite good.

Problems that really irk me

1. Freelook: Been said aplenty, but wtf? How can you have any situational awareness when you can't look left or right either in vehicle or infantry

2. Animations: Not enough and gameplay can feel pretty repetitive whilst interesting stories just can't happen in a mission.

3. Color Scheme: Yeah, nights looks kinda funky cool, but day looks like Man-A$$ and damned if I can tell which soldier is on my side.

4. Helos: play and look like toys -hate em'.

5. Entity limit: The big one. Flat out sucks and ruins the oppurtunity for full scale war . No amount of creative spawning missions is ever going to scratch that #itch -how can you recon tactical, when the enemy doesn't exist ...yet...lame.

If the patch above came, it'd be a pretty fun affair but as it is, I haven't/can't muster the motivation to finish one mission.

Edited December 28, 2009 by froggyluv

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

froggy.....

couple things to consider, the AI have no brains at all. Because they have no brains, there is no processing power overhead. EGO is a model manipulator only. It really has no processing power beyond the ability to move an animated model from point A to point B. They programmed those models to look at the player and to shoot in the general direction of the player. The predication programming (Predication is PREDICTING where the player is going to be in X amount of time. If you're running at say 5 mph in a straight line, the AI is supposed to take your position, calculate where you should be and turn and shoot in that predicted place.) They don't have any predication, they always shoot behind you. The AI takes a snapshot of your position, turns and shoots at the snapshot position. No predication needed and so forth no processing power. I also think that's why you run so slow in that game, to limit the predication. Good predication is sorta like: Player moving from Point A (snapshot taken from AI at x=345 y=236 z=0) then another snapshot taken soon after (player at x=380 y=260 z=0) so now in that timeframe the player moved that distance and at that speed, so he should be at point C now. Shoot at point C, drop first point, rinse repeat. It's more to it than that, but that's basically how it works.

In DR, this is how they fake it. Don't have to calculate anything. Player is always running at no more than a walk, so we take snapshot x=380, y=260 z=0 - knowing that at most he'll be within 10 points of that position, we'll make a bullet spread 10 points from that snapshot in all directions, because we really don't know which direction he's going, but he was HERE, when we checked. That's why the best defense in DR is to STAND STILL, or come at them in tight angles. Because they assume you're moving at a 10 point speed. Nobody's dumb enough to stand still with all this excitement going on right? So if you stand perfectly still and don't backtrack your movement, you're very safe. Now is that dumb as hell or what? A Zig Zag strafe move totally messes them up. Which is the basis to any FPS, since Doom.

The game is a hoax, and nothing but smoke and mirrors to make it LOOK like you're in a war. Nice effects, sound, and animation. Beyond that, there is nothing under the covers to the engine to actually put you in danger.

Edited December 28, 2009 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[jblackrupert 14]

There is the danger of keeling over and dying from laughter.

[froggyluv 2136]

Lughy...

I hear what you are saying but at the end of the day, all AI is scripted in a sense. It's the compilation of good scripting by the game developers that determine if the AI seems 'lifelike' or 'playerlike' in different situations.

That being said, DR does seem pretty bad in the aiming department you are talking about as compared to BI games in which a much more lifelike 'assumed position' markers take place. I still get shot in DR though so maybe I should try your constant strafing method :D

The problem in Arma2, for me at least, is that even though the determining factors may be more advanced, the execution often leaves something to be desired. Yesterday, I spent 3-4 hours in Arma2, with 1 Russian in the 1st position of the Barracks house located at the Airport in Utes. He left the doors opened, and stood in plain view from 2 opposing windows. I then sent a Force recon squad to "Search and Destroy right around the house, but they couldn't kill that guy even though they knew he was there. A few times they sent 1-2 guys into the house walking right passed the interior open door, but couldn't properly orient themselves to fire back. This was maddening. Many other times, Blufor would place themselves outside of the two windows on either side, with a wide open shot available, but would never take it -opting to run to higher ground and sometimes lay down 200-300m away facing the opposite direction?!?

I then added some house entry scripts, as well as gave them a direct order to enter that house at the exact position of the enemy soldier, they actually opened fire maybe 1 out of 10 times, ususally deciding to lay somewhere in the house facing all sorts of directions.

Sorry for the long winded post :p

I love Arma2, but really wish they did better job of staying oriented and taking the shot when it presents itself without hesitation whther thru window or not. Sometimes simple is better, and if simple meant that the AI would stay oreinted to the primary threat rather than have all kinds of arbitrary movement, then I say "simple is as simple does" :)

Edit: Just noticed that 'not shooting thru windows' is currently listed as bug at Dev-Heaven so fixing that will help out the above problem somewhat.

Edited December 29, 2009 by froggyluv

[sic-disaster 311]

Yeah Sesdelta: make no assumptions. Lockdown sucks just as much as Vegas, but Vegas goes completely over the top in it's unrealistic setup and is the most recent game so i tend to use that game as an example most of the time.