Dragon Rising has been released

[Madus_Maximus 0]

Templar is giving us a Christmas present too! :D

Luhgnut, this seems to be personal! ;)

All I can say is... LOL! That's truely a failure. It just proves Luhgnut point even more.

[jw custom 56]

something feels is very wrong in that video:j:

Something feels very wrong about that game.

[[frl]myke 14]

Templar is giving us a Christmas present too! :D

Luhgnut, this seems to be personal! ;)

Did anyone checked the comments on youtube itself about the video?

It seems that the vid has opposite effect as it was intended to have.

[instagoat 133]

Templar is giving us a Christmas present too! :D

Luhgnut, this seems to be personal! ;)

Wow.

Even though, I have to say for a console game, it´s a pretty clever solution to lower CPU load. Instead of having to manage five seperate entities, it only needs to manage one entity, which in turn moves all five attached squad members as a coordinated whole.

That doesn´t really do anything to the AI, though. It´s still the same, just with a few more abillities. It still can´t hit the broad side of a barn, but what I´d be interested in is if it does anything to how well they maneuver under fire.

The AI of Arma 2 can be a little frustrating in that respect.

In terms of scope, though, it´s still a joke. You can have battles with around 200 AI on the field, and still have a playable fps rate. In OF:DR, I sometimes get massive FPS drops when ten AI bunch up in dense "urban" terrain, for example at the end of the demo mission where you assault the village. It´s terrible to think that there´s people out there who get introduced to OFP by this game, and not CWC.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

All I can say is... LOL! That's truely a failure. It just proves Luhgnut point even more.

hehehe, what failure.

in the attempt to debunk my vids, he actually proved my point for me. My views on my vids just went up and subscriptions just went up.

I hope he "debunks" me again.

Just like how Dragon Rising's failure helped BIS, his is helping mine!

I love it!:coop: <smiley face with chaingun is smarter AI on this screen than DR AI

for fun, once I get my new processor santa gave me installed, I'm going to put 63 normal Arma2 AI around me, and capture them turning me into shredded wheat.

edit: just watched it again and read more comments..... I think I just wet myself.

Edited December 25, 2009 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[joey_45 0]

.....

for fun' date=' once I get my new processor santa gave me installed, I'm going to put 63 normal Arma2 AI around me, and capture them turning me into shredded wheat.[/quote']

Without doing anything like that Ech thingy...

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

yupper Joey....

what's truly sad, hidden in that attempt from him, is that is he thinks it's fine and awesome

[rowdied 44]

Luhgnut;1525013']yupper Joey....

what's truly sad' date=' hidden in that attempt from him, is that is [i']he thinks it's fine and awesome[/i]

That truly is the sad part, because that video is utterly pathetic, and so are his attempts in DR.

I think he is Sion Lenton maskerading as themplar.:D

[Heatseeker 0]

Its sad.. they are charging for DLC. What content? Missions...

We just got a new MP mission, a short SP campaign and the AH64D apache from BIS, merry x-mas?

I shouldnt even mention the amount of quality user made content released for A2 so far, its overwhelming!

I hate contributing to this thread since its presence is starting to annoy me, beating a dead horse over and over.. tsc.

[jblackrupert 14]

Luhgnut;1524938']hehehe' date=' what failure.

in the attempt to debunk my vids, he actually proved my point for me. My views on my vids just went up and subscriptions just went up.

I hope he "debunks" me again.

Just like how Dragon Rising's failure helped BIS, his is helping mine!

[/quote']

I posted a bunch of links to several videos including yours in his island mission

video, thats what triggered this pathetic attempt at defending DR.

He's since deleted most of my posts from the video.

I think he banned me from posting also.. Typical

[Nazul 10]

I dont understand what echelon is doing here in the videos? Isnt echelon a formation, how come it makes more agressive AI with only 1 placed?

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I posted a bunch of links to several videos including yours in his island mission

video, thats what triggered this pathetic attempt at defending DR.

He's since deleted most of my posts from the video.

I think he banned me from posting also.. Typical

I wondered what got this all started. :)

you can post on mine, then I'll link over to his.

tomorrow I put in my new processor, then I'm going to have a little fun.

About the Echelon thing, and the Danger Hint. The AI do not "think" in DR. As a single soldier, they cannot think for themselves, they fire off animation that makes you think they are thinking....:butbut:

To increase their brain, the Echelon (yes it's supposed to be a formation) is like like a squad with an actual brain. You can drop troops all over DR and drive around in a tank and run them all over and they just look like they are doing something. When you connect with Echelon, they start thinking more of a squad, the Danger Hint (i'm not quite sure how it works totally) but it sort of bumps the AI into another mode to actually fight.

If you put individual AI troops out in the open, with no Eschelon Leader/Danger Hint. They are just animated props. They'll shoot all over, but they won't actively flank you or anything.

What I believe the danger hint does, is take the AI that's in that area, and crank up the CPU cycles so they appear to think faster.

then I just went "meh" what a pain for nothin.

Bottom line is you put troops down in DR from the editor and they are animated target dummies that go through the motions.

Put in Echelon, and they get aggressive in their shooting/skills.

Drop Danger Hint, and they do the above line only faster.

I may be totally off on all this, but this is how it appears to work for me. It's called Micromanaging every single aspect of the game. Then when you despawn the troops to make room for more? start over. can you imagine the headache in making a mission?

if you play DR, (yeah dumb idea), you'll see what I mean. 90% of the AI troops in the area are nothing but animated shooters, that just blast all over to give you the sense of battle chaos. Then you have a couple of squads with this Echelon attached and so forth, those are the true enemy, and they actually make somewhat of an attempt to fight you. The rest? nothing but a light show and filler. They don't communicate, they don't coordinate, they just stand there firing their laser blasters. ooooohhhh so exciting!

Edited December 26, 2009 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[Nazul 10]

Thanks, i understand your explanation but i dont understand why its like this in game. CM have made this really unintuitive. Putting down a danger hint, lol, making a fake squad so it thinks...? Just curious who would sit down and design it this way.

anyway, im not going to play the game again, so no biggie.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Thanks, i understand your explanation but i dont understand why its like this in game. CM have made this really unintuitive. Putting down a danger hint, lol, making a fake squad so it thinks...? Just curious who would sit down and design it this way.

anyway, im not going to play the game again, so no biggie.

it's because the engine can't handle the AI like Arma2.

The EGO engine is nothing more than a 3D animator. Take a model, drop it on a racing track and give a few waypoints and it follows it. Doesn't have to think and comprehend the situation. That's why their games are based on it. It makes you appreciate what BIS is doing all the more. DR is the same thing, if it only has to handle the thinking process of only 10% of what's displayed on screen, it gives the casual gamer the thrill of combat but nothing underneath. CM based their company and games on an engine that only animates 3D models. Also notice that it can't handle the Z plane well. Hence the erratic flying of the helo's unless someone is flying them. Notice the helo's go basically from a 2D plane, then moves in the Z plane, then continues from that height to the next 2D way point. It takes much more processing power to animate in all three axis as opposed to 2D. I think that's why they left out planes.

Bah, he shut off comments on his vid.

Edited December 26, 2009 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[jw custom 56]

Luhgnut;1525249']

if you play DR' date=' (yeah dumb idea), you'll see what I mean.[/quote']

I think your one of the few around here that play DR lol :D

It's funny how people on the other forum think that a mission is a mod :p

[bascule42 10]

Luhgnut;1525263']

Bah' date=' he shut off comments on his vid.[/quote']

So he joins the rest of Cm with their fingers in their ears, eyes to the ground, and foot in their mouth. He may get a job yet.

[dmakatra 1]

Regarding the echelon thingy - to be fair, ArmA2's AI isn't all that great when you leave it on it's own either. No waypoints, no groups, no nothing. I think some people in this thread is just doing an unnecessary amount of badmouthing by not properly handling the AI in their examples. Remember when ArmA2 was released and we went mad because reviewers did 'AI tests' but they didn't set the AI up properly? The exact same thing.

That being said, I still think it's a shitty game. Though you could at least try to put the game to it's right context instead of just spreading semi-false propaganda.

[JdB 151]

So he joins the rest of Cm with their fingers in their ears, eyes to the ground, and foot in their mouth. He may get a job yet.

1,900 posts in 2 months, all excessively positive, something tells me he has a job already ;)

Out in the open without cover, ArmA2' AI is lethal by default, just like any real life soldier or even barely trained militiaman is. DR' is retarded by default, so the straffing bunnyhoppers that are it's prime customer-base don't get killed to often.

How far are the soldiers in that "Circle of Non-Death" away from the player in both videos? Like 100-200 meters. Yeah, I'm sure the PLA trains it's brain-dead troops so that they don't take out a target standing upright without any cover with a well-aimed shot, but instead are trained to pour on thousands of rounds in the hope of suppressing the lone enemy so an entire squad can flank him and shoot him from point blank :rolleyes:

A single AI in ArmA2 with the lowest skill-setting could work that out, but in DR it takes an entire squad, and some directing to achieve the CoD cinema-experience editing time to make the AI smarter than the average rock you find on barren Skira.

[Bulldogs 10]

I think that's the main bad mouth thing, not because the AI do stupid things (like Arma 2 on release) but because the AI don't actually operate indapendantly. I showed an example of it shortly after DR was released with ArmA 2 AI dumped in cherno with both sides and no waypoints or triggers. As long as one AI spotted an enemy (which I made sure they were positioned for) then both sides started moving around, flanking positions, peaking around corners, searching and destroying, with no waypoints or triggers.

The AI problem with DR being that you can't do that in DR. In DR it's a case of "This is how the AI act if I place them in an echelon and script them up"

The sad part is that I really respect what Templar's trying to do, but in the end we all know that it's 100 times better and easier to do under Arma 2 but Templar is so dead set on having DR succeed that he refuses to play ArmA 2.

[Emberwolf 0]

I had this big writeup going on how insane some of these people are who try explain OFPDR's "superiority" over ArmA2, but it's just going over the same worn ground yet again.

ArmA2 speaks for itself quite nicely with things such a the 1.05 patch and ACE. There's not much else left to say which can be said, since everybody involved has long since made up their minds on this matter. If someone can look at stuff like Richiespeed's videos, ACE mod, and the Armaholics download section (with stuff like Namalsk and the tons of available units), and then decide OFPDR is better, they're beyond any sort of help anyway.

It's still pretty entertaining though, I have to admit.

It's funny how people on the other forum think that a mission is a mod :p

Or that missions are called "maps". Around here, the definition of a map is a little more accurate. Namalsk and Panthera are maps. The result of arranging a scenario on the same stock landmass that came with the game is not a map.

[jw custom 56]

Or that missions are called "maps". Around here, the definition of a map is a little more accurate. Namalsk and Panthera are maps. The result of arranging a scenario on the same stock landmass that came with the game is not a map.

Thanks for clarrifying, i always thought Namalsk and Panthera was missions.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Regarding the echelon thingy - to be fair, ArmA2's AI isn't all that great when you leave it on it's own either. No waypoints, no groups, no nothing. I think some people in this thread is just doing an unnecessary amount of badmouthing by not properly handling the AI in their examples. Remember when ArmA2 was released and we went mad because reviewers did 'AI tests' but they didn't set the AI up properly? The exact same thing.

That being said, I still think it's a shitty game. Though you could at least try to put the game to it's right context instead of just spreading semi-false propaganda.

uh, no,

do this.... take some AI and drop them in the Arma2 editor. make some a squad, and make some without squad, just standing around. No waypoints, nothing.

Now drop yourself in as a sniper say 300m from those guys.

Pop off a shot in the general direction of your AI guys.

They will drop to the ground and start looking for you and start suppressing. Some will run around a little because they haven't figure out what just happened. Remember a single shot came whizzing over their heads. The ones in squads will start working you and you'll see them give hand signals. Shoot again, and they really start zeroing in on you.

Do the same in Dragon Rising.....

They will squat on the ground and look at you. (that's it.)

[sic-disaster 311]

Luhgnut;1525808']

Do the same in Dragon Rising.....

They will squat on the ground and look at you. (that's it.)

Made me lol again. It really is that bad, isnt it? :p

I still cant believe it :D

[Raptor13270 0]

Made me lol again. It really is that bad, isnt it? :p

I still cant believe it :D

Yup. I tried going to mission objective 2 before objective 1 in the first mission in the DR campaign, and met a couple of PLA soldiers inside a small village. I walked right in front of them and they did absolutely nothing. I'd say the AIs were poorly scripted even on the SP campaign mode.

[AndresCL 10]

Yup. I tried going to mission objective 2 before objective 1 in the first mission in the DR campaign, and met a couple of PLA soldiers inside a small village. I walked right in front of them and they did absolutely nothing. I'd say the AIs were poorly scripted even on the SP campaign mode.

Poorly scripted? Theyd need to be scripted for that to happen, lol