Dragon Rising has been released

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I think there is a problem with the definition of particle effects, here. Particle effects are a simulation system that usually tries to represent certain 'fuzzy' phenomena from explosions to hair. This is not always the case, and particle simulations may be used in a wide variety of applications.

Particle effects are usually done in a couple of phases, the simulation phase and the rendering phase. For the simulation phase, you need an emitter, emitter rules, and particles and their behaviour rules. This will set up the frequency, density, and transformation animations of the particles. For the rendering phase, you have whatever the particles will look like- whether they are animated billboards, polygonal, voxels, or anything else. For a demonstration in University, a professor set up a particle emitter to do a crowd simulation, complete with animated characters. They milled about according to certain particle behaviour rules.

So you see, particles can be anything- volumetric or not. I have not played the game but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the smoke and other effects for 'fuzzy', animated phenomena in DR are particle based effects.

Thanks for the explanation. If they do use particles, it's poorly. Basically what I see is a "ball" of smoke within the full smoke stream, then another ball that looks like the smaller ball moving up, then so on. There are distinct "balls" (wish I could explain it better) That move up into a larger ball. They don't flow like the smoke in A2. I would think particles would be separate entities that would start at a location and with random seeding along a path, give random effects. In DR you can see puffs of black/gray that move up in this ball pattern to stop to be taken over by another ball pattern. If you have multiple tanks burning, they are identical. It's like cookie-cutter animation. Looks really fake when you have 3-4 tanks burning, the smoke all looks identical in the same pattern. When one ball moves up, a clone of that ball on another tank moves up at the same rate. In A2, you don't see any pattern, it's just a single stream of rising smoke. Two burning tanks have different volumetric smoke. A burning wreck that's a bigger fire produces more smoke. In DR, they are all the same. If you sidestep around the burning wreck in DR, the "ball" doesn't change it's pattern, it remains a distinct object that faces you.

Edited November 17, 2009 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[fincuan 0]

You two seem to have an Arma2 <-> DR "missing in translation" situation. The headbob-option is only in Arma2, not DR,

[Colt45_GTO 10]

You two seem to have an Arma2 <-> DR "missing in translation" situation. The headbob-option is only in Arma2, not DR,

:j: never thought of that. i assumed he was on A2 demo :lol:

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I think I'll wait for boxed version, call me old fashioned ;) :p

But you certainly have a point.

Serious Sam is usualy very "crowded", more enemies on the screen than you can handle.

TBH, their AI is not supposed to flank you or perform any kind of special action, but that's what the game is all about...mindless fun.

And it does it very well, the way developers wanted it to, and what's more important, they didn't claim the game to be anything but simple arcade shooter.

I'm downloading DR demo right now, want to see what the hype is all about....

In Sam, I felt a level of tension because you had to be watching every direction and you always ran out of ammo at the worst time. In DR, I never felt tension. I felt I could just walk around and shoot stuff or not. And that it never really mattered. In A2 I feel tension when I know the enemy is someplace, and they can kill you outright. Maybe it's just one guy but you don't know where they could be. But in DR, you always knew where the enemy was going to spawn in. I beat the first mission without firing a shot. Never got shot, I just walked to the points I was told to. I never felt any fear or eminent danger. Cause I knew if I got shot, I could still fight without any limitations, and could just gaf a med-pack. Lenton even joked that in DR, the danger is real and you can't just "hide behind a rock" and get better. (Trying to slam COD series). But you may as well, cause you just whip out the old band-aide and keep medding yourself.

[Bulldogs 10]

I remember when Croteam first release Serious Sam. For about 1 year Jon Romero had been going on about his vertext lighting effects for Doom 3 then Serious Sam was released with a lighting engine that made Doom 3's obsolete. Unfortunately they didn't use it to full effect because, well, in Serious Sam you just didn't have time to appreciate it with all the chaos..... Man I love that game, and it came with Co-op, which was a rare thing at the time.

Anyways, back on topic.

I think the particle effect DR uses for smoke (from burning/exploding vehicles) is a rolling ball 2d particle map. Basically they get 2-3 balls, place an alpha particle map over it (a texture with dots of different shades of grey, with parts transparent/translucent), then these balls are overlayed above and below with another 2d particle map that moves (like an animated gif back in the doom days). The balls then rotate in alternating directions to create the effect of rolling smoke.

This isn't a 3d particle animated effect but a 2D alpha texture effect used to simulate particles (technically a form of particles since everything in the computing world is simulation)

Although I could be wrong as I don't have access to their source code, and I haven't worked in 3D animation for about 10 years so not up to date with all the techniques.

[kklownboy 43]

''.

Jon Romero had nada to do with D3. And at the time of SS1 release(spring2001) there wasnt much info on D3, it came out 3years later..? And its light engine completely out shines any SS1.. not even close.

[That guy 10]

I just read this over at the escapist. It certainly applies to DR

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96177-Analyst-Marketing-Trumps-Reviews-in-Driving-Game-Sales

basically the gist of the article is marketing has more effect on sales than scores

'course I am sure most people already suspected as much :p

[Bulldogs 10]

I think I'm thinking of the other John, it was when doom 3 was still a tech demo that he was advertising his vertex lighting as the be all end all, then ss1 introduced more advanced lighting and streaming tech, after which ID announced a delay on doom 3 so they could recreate the engine. So long ago that I can't remember all the details of it.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Is it safe to say DR is officially dead in MP and on the CM forums? I just tried browsing the server list and couldn't find one server and the post on CM forums is not more than three or four replies on the most active threads per day.

[kavoven 4]

:j: never thought of that. i assumed he was on A2 demo :lol:

That explains the situation :cool:

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Is it safe to say DR is officially dead in MP and on the CM forums? I just tried browsing the server list and couldn't find one server and the post on CM forums is not more than three or four replies on the most active threads per day.

Yeah, I just did a drive by and there's nothing going on. Couple people saying the demo was worthless and doesn't make anybody want to buy the game. Short single mission I guess.

Other than that, it's dead. What's funny is that most of the threads now people are talking up Arma2 in there and discussing how great A2 is.

Here's there Xfire rank today.

Now is that total fail or what. Yeah yeah, people say you can't judge it based on Xfire, but it's a valid indicator.

So 971 Players worldwide with 69,875 Min is an average gametime of 71.96 Minutes

Yeah, I would say it's dead. It's just amazing to me that people waited SO long for this game, and how excited people were, and now just over a month old, it's toast. I can't remember a game launch so anticipated with a complete and immediate meltdown.

remember if you quote this, remove the graphic or W0lle will get ya. :)

[wipman 1]

Hi, i've played the OFP2: DR Demo that i downloaded with the Steam client and buah!!, is one of the worst games that i've seen in years, is slow, few funny, silly and looks clearly made for consoles; as open field combat game... the BF2 is much more better, even the Delta Force 1 is a better game than the DR. Judging by the Demo... the game sucks. Let's C ya

[Zipper5 74]

That and every time I poke into the BIS community there is alot of elitist snobbery going down - but I need not touch the community to enjoy the game.

The biggest "elitist snob" of the DR community, Sir_Polaris, said that. Good riddens that he got disowned by the very company he so naively supported.

I can't believe someone who likes a brand name such as OFP, which is synonymous with it's community, just said that he doesn't need a community. Even more ironic is that he was the biggest DR community supporter. What a hypocrite.

The remnants of the DR community are now holding out for this fabled "fix all" patch. Helios said it was big, and everyone now thinks it's going to solve all of DR's problems. I'll be surprised if they even release another patch. It would be a rarity from Codemasters...

[Whiskey_Tango 10]

No matter what the file says it isn't 90 degrees. There is a YT video some (a lot) pages back.

EDIT: Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EXb4oY8Yho

yeah that was my video, was off 360 but to my knowledge its the same on pc... reason i made that video was to prove a lie made by cm stating that it was 76 degrees

[kklownboy 43]

The biggest "elitist snob" of the DR community, Sir_Polaris, said that. Good riddens that he got disowned by the very company he so naively supported.

I can't believe someone who likes a brand name such as OFP, which is synonymous with it's community, just said that he doesn't need a community. Even more ironic is that he was the biggest DR community supporter. What a hypocrite.

....

He has nowhere else to go.

He and his "friends/heros " seem to spam and then crap on EVERY thread they go into...

His narcissist verbosity only shows, he is the king bloviator of all that is his world. So all that is left is SP. But there will be the few hold outs all 100 or so who fight for a spot on TGs "server" or swe ones. I bet they do patch it before Xmass to sell a few more games.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

The biggest "elitist snob" of the DR community, Sir_Polaris, said that. Good riddens that he got disowned by the very company he so naively supported.

I can't believe someone who likes a brand name such as OFP, which is synonymous with it's community, just said that he doesn't need a community. Even more ironic is that he was the biggest DR community supporter. What a hypocrite.

The remnants of the DR community are now holding out for this fabled "fix all" patch. Helios said it was big, and everyone now thinks it's going to solve all of DR's problems. I'll be surprised if they even release another patch. It would be a rarity from Codemasters...

I'm still waiting for that "fix all" GRID patch they announced. Actually I'm not really.

I agree, this guy is such a hypocrit it's beyond belief. The same guy that states that the BIS forums are full of elitist snobs created this gem.

Clicky Check out the flowchart.

Trying to explain why people are incorrect to be pissed about the game. Pompus Maximus.

[max power 21]

Luhgnut;1491880']Thanks for the explanation. If they do use particles' date=' it's poorly. Basically what I see is a "ball" of smoke within the full smoke stream, then another ball that looks like the smaller ball moving up, then so on. There are distinct "balls" (wish I could explain it better) That move up into a larger ball. They don't flow like the smoke in A2. I would think particles would be separate entities that would start at a location and with random seeding along a path, give random effects. In DR you can see puffs of black/gray that move up in this ball pattern to stop to be taken over by another ball pattern. If you have multiple tanks burning, they are identical. It's like cookie-cutter animation. Looks really fake when you have 3-4 tanks burning, the smoke all looks identical in the same pattern. When one ball moves up, a clone of that ball on another tank moves up at the same rate. In A2, you don't see any pattern, it's just a single stream of rising smoke. Two burning tanks have different volumetric smoke. A burning wreck that's a bigger fire produces more smoke. In DR, they are all the same. If you sidestep around the burning wreck in DR, the "ball" doesn't change it's pattern, it remains a distinct object that faces you.[/quote']

ArmA 2's smoke is made up of roundish animated billboards as well... Well, to be perfectly honest, I haven't been so up close to migrating clouds as I have in ArmA 1. In ArmA 1, you could see the billboard plane when it intersected some other geometry. You cold also see the shadows cast on different planes of smoke if there was light shining through it. I tend to stay away from burning vehicles now because they explode and hurt me.

It sounds like CM just doesn't have the talented particle guys that BIS has. I've always loved the particle behaviour in BIS games, even back in the day when they were simply a solid colour.

BIS's smoke particles are (I think) constantly animated. If you run around them in circles, then, it's less notible that they are rotating to face you because their look is constantly changing.

[RaXz 0]

That sounds pretty plausible, they done great work with the particle effects while the performance hit isn't that high. Real fluid simulation is still far on the horizon, but it will be more of a gimmick and eyecandy for most games, just like ragdoll.

I remember pics of the coming Game 2 from BI, were buildings are made out of seperate bricks and other construction elements. That's way better than some ragdolling dead guys. :D

And lastly, last days I've been pondering why BI split with CM, does somebody know the details?

[max power 21]

That sounds pretty plausible, they done great work with the particle effects while the performance hit isn't that high. Real fluid simulation is still far on the horizon, but it will be more of a gimmick and eyecandy for most games, just like ragdoll.

I remember pics of the coming Game 2 from BI, were buildings are made out of seperate bricks and other construction elements. That's way better than some ragdolling dead guys. :D

And lastly, last days I've been pondering why BI split with CM, does somebody know the details?

I don't think anybody does, but I recall getting a sense that they were unable to come to a business arrangement that was salubrious to both parties. Taking into account what BIS has said since regarding publishers (and their trouble finding one), I postulate that CM wanted more rights and control than BIS was willing to sign over.

[RaXz 0]

I don't think anybody does, but I recall getting a sense that they were unable to come to a business arrangement that was salubrious to both parties. Taking into account what BIS has said since regarding publishers (and their trouble finding one), I postulate that CM wanted more rights and control than BIS was willing to sign over.

Yes, I assumed that for a long time but it would be nice to know the details. I doubt that CM kicked BIS out, maybe DR is the a fragment of the vision CM planned with BIS at it's side. It isn't the first time that this happended, at least BIS didn't pull a Bullfrog, that company died under the pressure of the publisher and the employees went different directions. In BIS instance, it was for the better, especially when I look at all the CM crap with crappy support. That's a certainty, the rest is only speculation.

[Barely-injured 0]

By the way for anyone still interested there are other non-steam demo links here

[Bulldogs 10]

I don't think anybody does, but I recall getting a sense that they were unable to come to a business arrangement that was salubrious to both parties. Taking into account what BIS has said since regarding publishers (and their trouble finding one), I postulate that CM wanted more rights and control than BIS was willing to sign over.

Man, it shows my level of maturity that after reading this post the first thing that pops into my head is a family guy quote, "Yeah, well.. you're a festeasio. There, I can make up words too"

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

ArmA 2's smoke is made up of roundish animated billboards as well... Well, to be perfectly honest, I haven't been so up close to migrating clouds as I have in ArmA 1. In ArmA 1, you could see the billboard plane when it intersected some other geometry. You cold also see the shadows cast on different planes of smoke if there was light shining through it. I tend to stay away from burning vehicles now because they explode and hurt me.

It sounds like CM just doesn't have the talented particle guys that BIS has. I've always loved the particle behaviour in BIS games, even back in the day when they were simply a solid colour.

BIS's smoke particles are (I think) constantly animated. If you run around them in circles, then, it's less notible that they are rotating to face you because their look is constantly changing.

actually lately I've been using WarFXparticles and the explosions are incredible. Looks much more realistic. If anybody wants some killer effects for explosions, use that. I also use JTD Fire and Smoke and now it looks most killer. Sorry, sorta off-topic. but nyah.

[mr_centipede 31]

Okay.. just downloaded the demo... where I can invert mouse axis?

[irR4tiOn4L 10]

Luhgnut;1492404']I'm still waiting for that "fix all" GRID patch they announced. Actually I'm not really.

I agree' date=' this guy is such a hypocrit it's beyond belief. The same guy that states that the BIS forums are full of elitist snobs created this gem.

Clicky Check out the flowchart.

Trying to explain why people are incorrect to be pissed about the game. Pompus Maximus.

That Polaris is in denial himself.

Community 'leaders' like Polaris are an amusing breed - 'never fear faithful flock, the very purpose of our being here may have been undermined but if we just stay positive and happy we can still have a wonderful community [around a crap game]'

If i were a member there id point out that people complain simply because the central aim of the community, Dragon Rising, has turned out to be crap, and the point of the forums is not to create a warm fuzzy community feeling inside like he is trying to do, but to discuss a game that it is now clear has been a big waste of time. Psychology is also a subject ive studied and his use of a simplified and unproven theory like the stages to belittle poster's choices and explain their motivations as if it were fact is questionable.

I just dont think he 'gets it' - who wants to waste time by spending it and getting hyped up in a forum for something that turns out to be a lie? Does that not justify anger and bitter hostility towards those who set up the forum and advertised the product? Hes trying to promote the product that the customers themselves are trying to actively warn against

He is a fool trying to keep people happy on a sinking ship. I dont think he realises that without the impetus, there can be no community

Edited November 19, 2009 by irR4tiOn4L