FP : DR - News & Discussion

[walker 0]

But what has that got to do with the editor?

Hi ch_123

As I said I think the probable reason the editor is not included in DR is because it is so bloated by the modified Dirt engine's physics requirements.

I think that the choice of the Dirt engine is why lots of the features of the 10 year old OFP1 were not able to be matched

Kind Regards walker

[max power 21]

Did he stated that it's the HD space or the DVD space? As BI managed to put a simple editor in the old xbox for ofp:e

Unknown, I assumed he meant the dvd format. There's a lot more fidelity in DR. I would hazard a guess to say that the size of the sound files in DR probably dwarf the entire size of OFP:E. Even if that is not the case, the models and textures seem much better and more numerous. It's much more complex data.

[Daddl 10]

As I said I think the probable reason the editor is not included in DR is because it is so bloated by the modified Dirt engine's physics requirements.

But how so? The editor only sets the parameters for the mission and (if what we saw in the vid applies to the editor they actually deliver) some effects, and saves them to a file (or transfers them to a running instance if you want ingame editing). That hardly uses any resources - no matter if the game engine were running in parallel or not (most likely not, or at least paused).

The Dirt engine may be crap, but that is definitely not the reason for not including an editor. The gfx/physics engine used has little to no impact on the mission editor. The only reason they can't port the editor to consoles is the editor itself. Look at the IGN vid posted some time ago: it's a standard Windows application, with standard Windows controls (mouse/keyboard), UI and (worst of all) non-portable code. Not only would they have to completely reinvent the UI/control scheme for the editor on Consoles, they'd probably have to do it completely from the ground up.

As a developer I can understand doing the editor this way: Windows desktop development is quick and simple (in other words: cheap) compared to a well integrated multiplatform tool that also needs to support very different control schemes (gamepad vs mouse/keyboard) and screen sizes (from a standard TV to HD). For a 'non-essential'/'nice to have' asset (that's how Codemasters seems to see it) the decision is simple when assigning the budget for the project: keep development for the editor as cheap as possible and rather concentrate on the game itself. And to be honest, the editor looks good - only I won't be able to use it as I'll only play the game on a console...

Edited May 11, 2009 by Daddl
added more detailed argument

[boomar. 10]

Im sure CM have done the math and know very well what they are doing. Rather take there word for it, than some guy on an Arma2 forum rofl.

[Andi 10]

I've been reading a few pages on this thread and the Arma2 thread on the CM forum as well.

My impression, after all the information I've read, is that DR will not be the game that I want to play.

I enjoyed OPF and Arma and I (most probably) will enjoy Arma2 due to all the pros and cons the game engine has to offer (yes I actually enjoyed losing my equipment while swimming because it's just hilarious).

On the other hand I couldn't enjoy Battlefield very much. It was just too deathmatch like (at least when I played it in LAN (BF2)).

And that's what DR seems to be for me.

Battlefield on a large-scale with all the Booms and Bangs and fire and lightning and dirty, weary, grim looking soldiers that shout and fire around with full-auto while moving around with ultra-smooth animations and all is shiny and bloomy...

While the weapon and vehicle handling is way too arcadish thus degrading the game to yet another Battlefield.

(Not to mention the missing civs. Sorry, but that is unacceptable).

For me it's just Arma2. k thx bai.

[An-225 0]

To reiterate what I have stated before, to the people who cannot understand why the BIS community shows dislike for DR in general.

I don't think, anyone here would have had a problem if they just called it: Dragon Rising.

But the point is, CM are not doing that. They are marketing it as the sequel to Operation Flashpoint, yet they have very little in common.

Some people say, fixed wing aircraft, civilians etc. aren't very important. Maybe they aren't important to Dragon Rising. But they are parts of what Operation Flashpoint was built on - freedom.

The storyline doesn't accommodate civilians? Thats fine. It just shouldn't be called Operation Flashpoint.

[dm 9]

To reiterate what I have stated before, to the people who cannot understand why the BIS community shows dislike for DR in general.

I don't think, anyone here would have had a problem if they just called it: Dragon Rising.

But the point is, CM are not doing that. They are marketing it as the sequel to Operation Flashpoint, yet they have very little in common.

Some people say, fixed wing aircraft, civilians etc. aren't very important. Maybe they aren't important to Dragon Rising. But they are parts of what Operation Flashpoint was built on - freedom.

The storyline doesn't accommodate civilians? Thats fine. It just shouldn't be called Operation Flashpoint.

Quoted for truth.

It never ceases to amaze me how people fail to recognise this as the cause of contention for the longtime OFP fans.

[boomar. 10]

Well they are trying to make a realistic tactical shooter. Sounds right to me.

Its not like they OFP: DR is a racing game....

Its sticking to the genre so they should call it OFP: DR.

[dm 9]

Well they are trying to make a realistic tactical shooter. Sounds right to me.

... ...

Its sticking to the genre so they should call it OFP: DR.

It never ceases to amaze me how people fail to recognise this as the cause of contention for the longtime OFP fans.

12345 :j:

[fumo 0]

To reiterate what I have stated before, to the people who cannot understand why the BIS community shows dislike for DR in general.

I don't think, anyone here would have had a problem if they just called it: Dragon Rising.

But the point is, CM are not doing that. They are marketing it as the sequel to Operation Flashpoint, yet they have very little in common.

Some people say, fixed wing aircraft, civilians etc. aren't very important. Maybe they aren't important to Dragon Rising. But they are parts of what Operation Flashpoint was built on - freedom.

The storyline doesn't accommodate civilians? Thats fine. It just shouldn't be called Operation Flashpoint.

They have the damned right to call it Operation Flashpoint, who don't like it should blame BIS. They have sold it. CM is just acting logical, they have a trade mark with a lot of fans and like every company they want to make money, so they sell it. That's kapitalism, and in this world kapitalism is legitim.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Quoted for truth.

It never ceases to amaze me how people fail to recognise this as the cause of contention for the longtime OFP fans.

Both bits double quoted for truth. Amen

A "realistic tactical shooter" !!??

Sure they are ......... but OFP1 was a "Free Form War Simulator", thats what got it much of its aclaim, and subsequent development into a VBS series.

As for OFPDR, whats the word on Mod'ing tools?

Released with game? 3rd party commercial software only?

[walker 0]

Hi all

CM seem to want the Kudos of BIS's OFP1 name but are unable to live up to the specification.

The whole project seems like a bit of a Clive Lindop.

Kind regards walker

[Deadfast 43]

I love the excuse that there is no editor for consoles because it doesn't fit on the DVD.

Seriously, how large is it? Unless they included 5 hours of tutorial videos there is no way it's over 20MB...

[boomar. 10]

I love the excuse that there is no editor for consoles because it doesn't fit on the DVD.

Seriously, how large is it? Unless they included 5 hours of tutorial videos there is no way it's over 20MB...

Its because the OFP: DR editor is gona be so freakin OMGWTF PWNZOR that the consoles simply couldnt handle something so advanced.

[NoRailgunner 0]

What if...

...OFP: DR is made "only" for casual/console players?

...OFP: DR will be enjoyable like OFP is/was?

Can someone really judge or count on previews or this yaddayadda around? Guess we have to wait till its "done".

Imo people should judge a game not only by its name or how good or bad the advertisement/PR is. Are such things able to beat your own experience testing and playing a game?

Better explain all interested people that OFP/ArmA/Arma2 and OFP: DR are built on different game engines and will have their own type of gameplay.

[walker 0]

Hi NoRailgunner

We do already know DR does not live up to the ten year old OFP1 specification.

Kind regards walker

[von_paulus 0]

To reiterate what I have stated before, to the people who cannot understand why the BIS community shows dislike for DR in general.

I don't think, anyone here would have had a problem if they just called it: Dragon Rising.

But the point is, CM are not doing that. They are marketing it as the sequel to Operation Flashpoint, yet they have very little in common.

Some people say, fixed wing aircraft, civilians etc. aren't very important. Maybe they aren't important to Dragon Rising. But they are parts of what Operation Flashpoint was built on - freedom.

The storyline doesn't accommodate civilians? Thats fine. It just shouldn't be called Operation Flashpoint.

I fully agree.

I can always "easily" identify Mozart's music works even when I don't know them. Why? Because there is a special touch, Mozart's touch; that touch is unique and original. The same happens with BIS games OFP, ARMA and now ARMA II. It won't be duplicated in another game produced by another company and developed by another dev team. The spirit of OFP lies in BIS not in Codemasters. And thats the spirit that I'm still looking for after 8 years. I know I'll find it in ARMA II in spite all the bugs or the problems it might have.

I sincerely hope that DR can be a good game and above all a good military sim. Let's wait and see. But will never be OFP.

[[frl]myke 14]

**PLEASE DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINK UNLESS YOU'VE READ THE WHOLE POST**

This ones for those who wont understand why OFP fans are concerned that OFP: DR will not "fit" into the OFP universe.

First you have to realize that "Operation Flashpoint" is a trademark. As with all trademarks, people have a certain idea what they expect from a trademark. Usually these are unique features which made the product superior to other product. Keep that in mind while continuing reading.

I'll give you an example how this affects every person, hearing something about a certain trademark.

Fictional, but nonetheless interesting:

Last month i got myself a new vehicle, a Lamborghini. Reading this name, you surely have a picture in mind how this vehicle looks alike. Now click the link and see for yourself.

http://tinyurl.com/d5folu

Hope this makes some things clearer why OFP fans will hardly accept OFP: DR as serious sequel to theyr beloved game.

[4 IN 1 0]

Its because the OFP: DR editor is gona be so freakin OMGWTF PWNZOR that the consoles simply couldnt handle something so advanced.

This should be one of the funniest excuse I have ever seen.

Ain't far cry for xbox have an island editor or something like that?

I watched that footage and find that quite advance(orthrough the game itself sucks)

[Daddl 10]

I love the excuse that there is no editor for consoles because it doesn't fit on the DVD.

Right. Especially as the PS3 version comes on a BlueRay...

[Andi 10]

Fictional, but nonetheless interesting:

Last month i got myself a new vehicle, a Lamborghini. Reading this name, you surely have a picture in mind how this vehicle looks alike. Now click the link and see for yourself.

http://tinyurl.com/d5folu

I knew you would show the tractor :D

Good example but not quite fitting.

The sports cars and the tractors are both made by Lamborghini, the same producer. While original OFP and DR are not.

That's not a special case btw. You got that discussion on Fallout 3, Baldur's Gate, NWN, X-COM, Jagged Alliance, etc. etc.

[nodunit 397]

http://www.ofp2.info/ two new screens apparently.

No brown filter Yay

The noise! Argh!

Edited May 12, 2009 by NodUnit

[Dwarden 1125]

old screens just w/o the filter ...

[nodunit 397]

Hmm I see, I don't keep track of it too much but I do check ofp2.info from time to time to see whats "new". Though I do wonder why they keep recycling old pictures..

[TheReddog 0]

Hmm I see, I don't keep track of it too much but I do check ofp2.info from time to time to see whats "new". Though I do wonder why they keep recycling old pictures..

Cause the developers aren't releasing shit.