Considering buying it now --- what's its status?

[Duffo 10]

Actually I bought this mostly for it's editor. It's so amazing and easy to use.

[froggyluv 2135]

Why should people pay for something that they can't play right now?

.

Huh? I'm playing it now with a mid-range machine just fine. And enjoying the hell outta it. Also payed the same ($50.00) to take family to see the last Terminator film, that's 2 hours of my life that I'll never get back :(

Lotsa of games come with bugs and generally, the bigger the scale, the more ironing out it will take. So if you want bug free, wait or buy smaller scale games.

[Zombie_Mod 0]

That's a very interesting world you live in. I like the notion that there are programmers on the BIS dev team that just get up out of their desks one day and proclaim, "Fuck it. Fuck this. I'm modeling a cow".

"Isn't that the art depts job?"

"It's your job to mind your own business."

You realise that if the design document calls for wild life, then wild life tasks are assigned appropriate to the department, and when they are finished they go into a repository. What the art dept. is doing doesn't really affect what the programming dept is doing unless they are late. Besides, most programmers I know can hardly even hold a pencil. Clawed hands from constant typing and gripping cans of redbull, you see.

BIS didn't seem to get the world wide publisher they wanted, and got a bunch of territorial publishers pretty late. It seemed like a case of 'surprise assholes, your deadline is in 6 weeks'.

Good examples of strawman arguments, though. I never get tired of those.

I live in the world of software development my man. What world do you live in?

Do these 3D models move themselves? Or does code have to be written to move them and make them interact?

There has to be a project plan in place where the 3D model is scheduled to be included in the latest build, and code is added to make it "live", and thats why if you know you're not going to ship a working product on time you change the plan to drop the "nice to haves" like chickens and cows. But then you knew that, right? Right?

Don't give me that crap that "you release in 6 weeks". If you tell the publisher you need a year to release the game, you need a year and the contract is agreed (working in the biz like I do, I know this) - they can't suddenly say, "oh guys, erm, that year? Make it 6 weeks from now". You can haggle over moving the product forward, but that means dropping content.

Regarding claw hands, maybe the guys you know are just wankers? :D

No claws here.

---------- Post added at 05:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

Huh? I'm playing it now with a mid-range machine just fine. And enjoying the hell outta it. Also payed the same ($50.00) to take family to see the last Terminator film, that's 2 hours of my life that I'll never get back :(

Lotsa of games come with bugs and generally, the bigger the scale, the more ironing out it will take. So if you want bug free, wait or buy smaller scale games.

The bigger the game is the more bugs it will have? Correct. That's why you have a TEST & REWORK cycle in your project plan, of an appropriate timescale to iron the showstoppers out. It's not like this game is a new concept for BIS and they didnt know what was required - BIS made OFP and Arma before, they should surely have an inkling of what effort it takes for a game like this - they are not jumping into the unknown.

If your product gets complex, you factor in even more time for testing and rework (the PC name for "bug fixing") - you DON'T release something that is broken and expect the fans to bail you out.

[RedRage 0]

Still buggy, still unoptimized, still unfinished. If you want to spend $50.00 for an editor, go ahead.

For $50.00 , I expect the game to work as advertized. Wait 2 years, then buy it. Wish I would have done that for ARMA 1.

I enjoy the whole package to be honest. Yes there are bugs, yes it ticks me off that a GTX260 SLI system barely makes 24 fps in campaign, however making such a huge deal out of a $50 dollar purchase is ridicolous. I spent $150 at a bar last night, and I don't have anything to show for it but a hangover. ARMA 2 already provided me with close to 50 hours of solid gameplay, which is more that i can say for other more polished but ultimately boring products.

It's not fanboism, i couldn't care less about BIS to be honest, but the product is unique, and there is easily 50 bucks worth of enjoyment in it.

[wooly-back-jack 10]

I spent $150 at a bar last night, and I don't have anything to show for it but a hangover.

so you got what you expected for your money then ;)

[max power 21]

I live in the world of software development my man. What world do you live in?

Do these 3D models move themselves? Or does code have to be written to move them and make them interact?

There has to be a project plan in place where the 3D model is scheduled to be included in the latest build, and code is added to make it "live", and thats why if you know you're not going to ship a working product on time you change the plan to drop the "nice to haves" like chickens and cows. But then you knew that, right? Right?

I think it was fairly obvious what I meant by 'the art dept. doesn't affect the programming dept. unless they are late. Besides, all that implementation is probably all automated anyways... but you know that because you work in software, right? Just how different do you think the AI in the cows is anyways?

The living landscape isn't a 'nice to have' in this game. From the getgo, when the game was called 'game 2', they were talking about a dynamic war happening on a living landscape with a roleplaying component. The ambient life in the game is a huge part of it. The game world has a lot more credence now because the civilian population is more plausible with the exception of the lack of children. They are farmers or whatever, and you can see their livestock. The forest has creatures for the hunter characters to hunt. It makes Chernarus more than just a backdrop.

Don't give me that crap that "you release in 6 weeks". If you tell the publisher you need a year to release the game, you need a year and the contract is agreed (working in the biz like I do, I know this) - they can't suddenly say, "oh guys, erm, that year? Make it 6 weeks from now". You can haggle over moving the product forward, but that means dropping content.

Well, they didn't announce a release date until very late, then moved it up a week. The result was a game build where the procedural terrain was just a black infinite expanse. Tell me what conclusion you draw from that, if it isn't a publisher just deciding to move up the release date?

Regarding claw hands, maybe the guys you know are just wankers? :D

No claws here.

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Max Power

[froggyluv 2135]

The bigger the game is the more bugs it will have? Correct. That's why you have a TEST & REWORK cycle in your project plan, of an appropriate timescale to iron the showstoppers out. It's not like this game is a new concept for BIS and they didnt know what was required - BIS made OFP and Arma before, they should surely have an inkling of what effort it takes for a game like this - they are not jumping into the unknown.

If your product gets complex, you factor in even more time for testing and rework (the PC name for "bug fixing") - you DON'T release something that is broken and expect the fans to bail you out.

I haven't encountered any showstoppers yet. I've had to do some various tweaks to stablize and enhance settings but thats about it. Sure, there are some tweaks primarily in the AI department that I'm waiting on but nothing to stop me from having a blast with what I've got in the meanwhile.

You also weren't in unknown territory that the early release of this game wouldn't have bugs, so at the end of the day it's entirely up to you whether you take a chance with a just released build, or wait for multiple patches to get to the level acceptable to you. I knew this going into this, was going to wait but after reading posts of similar minded gamers that were enjoying Arma2, took a chance and decided it was worth buying early despite some bugs.

[Zombie_Mod 0]

I enjoy the whole package to be honest. Yes there are bugs, yes it ticks me off that a GTX260 SLI system barely makes 24 fps in campaign, however making such a huge deal out of a $50 dollar purchase is ridicolous. I spent $150 at a bar last night, and I don't have anything to show for it but a hangover. ARMA 2 already provided me with close to 50 hours of solid gameplay, which is more that i can say for other more polished but ultimately boring products.

It's not fanboism, i couldn't care less about BIS to be honest, but the product is unique, and there is easily 50 bucks worth of enjoyment in it.

That is true, it's only £25, but I had high hopes for the SP campaign and AI.

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

I haven't encountered any showstoppers yet. I've had to do some various tweaks to stablize and enhance settings but thats about it. Sure, there are some tweaks primarily in the AI department that I'm waiting on but nothing to stop me from having a blast with what I've got in the meanwhile.

You also weren't in unknown territory that the early release of this game wouldn't have bugs, so at the end of the day it's entirely up to you whether you take a chance with a just released build, or wait for multiple patches to get to the level acceptable to you. I knew this going into this, was going to wait but after reading posts of similar minded gamers that were enjoying Arma2, took a chance and decided it was worth buying early despite some bugs.

You haven't, but I have. And I reported every single one to dev-heaven.net .

There's 100s of bugs on there. Take a look.

I didnt expect the first release to be bug-free, of course not, but I didnt expect it NOT TO WORK!!! I'm not the only person who can't complete the campaign without cheating because triggers don't fire or AI runs into a hail of bullets....

[CanadianSyrup 0]

I Would recommend this game to anyone! Its by far one of the best games I have ever played. However joining a Squad makes the game worth every penny. I can obviously see some of the bugs in this game but EVERYGAME has its bugs and eventually get fixed. Think of it this way, BIS released Arma2 early so when OFP2 releases, Some of the major bugs in Arma2 will be fixed. while OFP2 Will still have to deal with some major ones right off the bat. I Will continue to recommend this game because of the hard work put into it and its endless hours of fun it provides.

[Zombie_Mod 0]

I think it was fairly obvious what I meant by 'the art dept. doesn't affect the programming dept. unless they are late. Besides, all that implementation is probably all automated anyways... but you know that because you work in software, right? Just how different do you think the AI in the cows is anyways?

The living landscape isn't a 'nice to have' in this game. From the getgo, when the game was called 'game 2', they were talking about a dynamic war happening on a living landscape with a roleplaying component. The ambient life in the game is a huge part of it. The game world has a lot more credence now because the civilian population is more plausible with the exception of the lack of children. They are farmers or whatever, and you can see their livestock. The forest has creatures for the hunter characters to hunt. It makes Chernarus more than just a backdrop.

Well, they didn't announce a release date until very late, then moved it up a week. The result was a game build where the procedural terrain was just a black infinite expanse. Tell me what conclusion you draw from that, if it isn't a publisher just deciding to move up the release date?

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Are you trying to preach to me how software development works? This gets better. :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter if implementation is automated or not, the fact of the matter is time was spent putting it in, and of course it will need tested as well. Everything added needs tested.

Are you seriously saying BIS could not see the game was riddled with bugs while they were developing it? Welcome to my world: if I see a bug in my code and it's going to be a showstopper, I fix it or I assign someone else to do it for me. I don't leave it til the last week before release!

Something is wrong with the development process. Do not heap the blame on the publisher, it takes 2 to tango.

"The game world has a lot more credence now because the civilian population is more plausible"

WTF!!! Plausible??? Come ON!!! The civs stand around for the most part, they don't really go anywhere or do anything but be scenery in the campaign. If they weren't there I wouldn't miss them.

Who really cares if Chernarus hunters have rabbits to hunt? Arma2 is not about hunting Bugs Bunny. It is supposed to be a FPS game with squad tactics on a scale as massive as you want.

The AI doesn't work and the campaign can't be completed without cheating. But oh yes, we have rabbits for hunters. I'm so happy, my £25 wasn't wasted!

[Barely-injured 0]

Loving the game and I hardly touched mp yet. Some small issues here and there but definitely not the doom-and-gloom that the same people seem to cry about in every thread. I have been playing the sp campaign as well so far so good with nicely realized story. The single missions are great I had loads of fun with "bear rising" yesterday.

[pokemaughan 10]

Look how customers with serious problems are treated - > "its ready when its ready" when they ask for a fix. Nuff that I was so stupid, I suggest to all others to wait another 2 years until BIS might brought it to a decent quality.

I agree, I'd prefer a better answer than that... dunno about you but right now I feel a little ripped off by the current quality of the game, and we're all so ready for 1.03 (hopefully it fixes a lot), but all they can say is 'it'll be done sometime'. Come on... be a little more honest! We're giving you quite a bit of money, here...

[max power 21]

Are you trying to preach to me how software development works? This gets better. :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter if implementation is automated or not, the fact of the matter is time was spent putting it in, and of course it will need tested as well. Everything added needs tested.

Are you seriously saying BIS could not see the game was riddled with bugs while they were developing it? Welcome to my world: if I see a bug in my code and it's going to be a showstopper, I fix it or I assign someone else to do it for me. I don't leave it til the last week before release!

Where in heaven's name did I imply that? That's as random as you all of a sudden bringing up masturbation.

Something is wrong with the development process. Do not heap the blame on the publisher, it takes 2 to tango.

Right. But instead of answering my question on how you account for the actual sequence of events, you just come back with the 'it takes two to tango' platitude. Let's put this alleged developer's experience to good work and provide some answers to the actual issues instead of casting vague rays of discontent.

WTF!!! Plausible??? Come ON!!! The civs stand around for the most part, they don't really go anywhere or do anything but be scenery in the campaign. If they weren't there I wouldn't miss them.

Well, that makes one of us, I suppose.

Who really cares if Chernarus hunters have rabbits to hunt? Arma2 is not about hunting Bugs Bunny. It is supposed to be a FPS game with squad tactics on a scale as massive as you want.

Sorry buddy, you're wrong. If that's all it was supposed to be, then they wouldn't have provided those civilian or wildlife modules at all. The fact they are in there clearly and terminally rebukes your claim.

The AI doesn't work and the campaign can't be completed without cheating. But oh yes, we have rabbits for hunters. I'm so happy, my £25 wasn't wasted!

You can only imagine how sorry I am that you feel that way. Perhaps you can trade your copy in somewhere.

[Zombie_Mod 0]

I don't work in BIS. How can I account for what their publisher says or did not say? I only deal with facts. The software is broken, and that is a fact.

1. The masturbation joke was when you said all developers had clawed hands... I implied it wasn't from typing, it was from playing with themselves ffs. A JOKE!!

2. The wildlife addons are not an intrinsic part of the game. You don't need animals to complete any mission in the campaign do you? Are you actually saying they are essentials for the game to run? Let me put it another way: BIS know the game is broken, the AI can't even drive - something from Arma1 days - yet they add something which most people don't care about.

3. Trade my copy in? Will I hell, I've spent too much time reporting bugs to give up on it now. I'm going to argue with every f**king fanboi I can and hammer some sense into their thick skulls. BIS need to be pressured into fixing bugs, not adding new features or content.

Imagine this - if every game developer released broken games like this one, we'd have little games to play. Is that fact or not?

If this game had no editor you'd be going nuts. Is that fact or not?

[Placebo 29]

BIS need to be pressured into fixing bugs, not adding new features or content.

We are working on fixing bugs.

As for the original question, I'd suggest you try the demo, either you'll love it or hate it, free will all the way.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Placebo