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[Bulldogs 10]

That's one thing I love about Arma 2/Arma/OFP :

The Lady : "spend some time with me"

Me : "sure, just let me finish this mission"

...3 hours later...

The Lady : "I thought you said you were finishing the one mission!"

Me : "yep, almost done"

In all honesty, it's designed for a niche market, fortunately that niche is growing, but many still prefer the run and gun games, which I do like myself, I just jump on those games once in a blue moon for a bit of intense action, then when I feel like being enveloped in a game I jump on Arma 2.

It's kinda like listening to classical music for some. It can take your mind places and get you deep into it, but occasionally you need to throw on some Metallica - Battery and punch some holes in the walls.

[Amuro 10]

OK guys thanks so far for the replies, but while we're on this topic can you recommend any decent FPS's that DO match my criteria?

I'm sure you'd love BF:BC2, BF3, MW2, maybe even OFPDR.

[Baxalasse 10]

It sound to me that you are buying the same game over and over again. Why not try to widening your views and try something different, like Arma 2!?

[IronPants 0]

Well, it does say on the box "ARMA IIâ„¢: ULTIMATE MILITARY SIMULATOR"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulator

Emphasis on the infantry simulation. In fact, there is a military training version:

http://virtualbattlespace.vbs2.com/

Even though you were looking for a game I highly recommend sticking with this simulation! I've been playing FPS games since Wolfenstein 3D and nothing else can offer the incredible experiences that this series does.

If all you want is fast paced FPS action I can recommend nothing more highly than The Specialists, a Half-Life (yes, 1) modification which has the most sublime FPS action gameplay in existence.

[ta.maximus 10]

I think many people bought the game because of the glamorous videos and screen shots. I'm sorry you have wasted your money buying it, but I think that it was made clear enough everywhere that this is mostly a simulator and not a game.

Ask yourself this: have you ever played IL2, the Silent Hunter series, R-Factor, Papyrus Nascar 2003, America's Army, Live for Speed, Grand Prix Legends, etc.?

Have you ever spend 4 hours+ trying to adjust your suspension on your virtual car to try and get that illusive extra 150ms out of a lap? Have you ever wondered what you should set you air to fuel mixture ratio at 4500 feet to get that extra bit of oomph out of a very specific WWII plane? Have you ever participated in an online skirmish for 1 or 2 hours against enemy AI where not one of your online squad members die?

If not, welcome to the world of simulation my friend. These games teach you a lot about things you may never get into contact with in real life. It teaches you the virtues of patience, technical abilities of the equipment you are using, teamwork in combat situations, etc., etc. You have to push everything you know about the average game aside and start from scratch in these simulators. You have yet to find the essence of what this specific simulator game is all about, and trust me, the campaign is not part of the essence. And arguably, neither is all the servers running evolution and domination.

The great thing is that you can still play your other games too. I still play Prototype, Crysis, Unreal Tournament 3, Fallout 3, etc. ArmA II is not my one and only game, and it doesn't have to be. But when I do play it I can easily waste away a day and get completely emerged in it's greatness.

Just my 2c's.

[Mafiozo 10]

I'm looking at my ArmA 2 Hard-copy right now and it says on the back: "THE ULTIMATE MILITARY SIMULATOR". you really thought you will be able to jump off trees and waste five tangos with your uber-ak47, take a shot the head and go find a medikit?

I must say that I was kinda lagging with the BF2 fiasco. the game was released during my army service and back then I couldn't really play any online games.

after discharge, I got BF2 because I heard about PR. I got around to playing BF2 Vanilla a few times, alone on a server, and it was nice, but it wasn't nothing like every experience I ever had in PR. Tactics, Patience, Teamwork, Smart relaxed gameplay.

That's something not every game offers you, bringing you to something which can be tagged as the equivalent of a real-life battlefield. few games really do that. I can think of PR, WWIIOnline, aspects of AA3, and OFP that shattered all grounds in 2001.

Your question regarding "what is the logic in playing such realistic games" actually lacks basic justification. people play sims since the early 80's. there are simulators for everything, raging from trains to driving buses and transport lorries. in a world in which warfare is so "popular", you could expect that a market of realistic warfare simulations will be required. for many years, people wanted a SIM that will make them feel like they are really engaging in RL battle. then OFP came along. and now ArmA 2 comes, improved, polished, and sexier. ofcourse, most rigs can't handle its harsh requirements or lack of much needed optimization, yet, it has the power to make people fall in love with it, because it's scope is so big and its endless array of possibilties, be it the expansive mission editor or the dedicated community that creates mods and new material.

Truth to be told I don't understand why you had to bring that up in the first place. yes, you're a nice guy, you didn't come here to troll, but seriously, what did you think you'll get by asking "why do realistic games exist" in an ArmA 2 forum? why does it bother you so much? I don't like hunting games, do I go on their forums and ask them "Hey, why do you play hunting games?" so they'll say "We're better off doing it in our PC's than in real life". so if you ask me why I play ArmA 2, I'll tell you that I'm better off facing the harsh gritty reality that is Combat and warfare in my PC than in RL, and this is a thing that ArmA2, despite it's flaws, Delivers.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Mafiozo

[ck-claw 1]

so if you ask me why I play ArmA 2, I'll tell you that I'm better off facing the harsh gritty reality that is Combat and warfare in my PC than in RL, and this is a thing that ArmA2, despite it's flaws, Delivers.

Bang On! :cool:

[hund 0]

Yeah I'd go with ofp:dr as well. I think it'll have the vast expanses like arma does, but not so much realism for people who can't hack it :D

But seriously, good luck on finding a game that suits you.

[amfitamine 0]

@Vanchatron, the game will get better (patches) and so will you if you give it some time. Don't return it yet. You have to learn new tactics and practice them. Stick your teeth into it and you will be rewarded. We all know it can be frustrating and it has a learning curve but it's relative. Try Black Shark DS for a change (flyght Sim), that's a learning curve....but oh boy is it fun (as Arma2 is IMO) :)

[Murklor 10]

I am a hardcore Battlefield fan (been playing every game, expansion and mod since the very first unplayable rubberbanding version of BF1942, lol) and of course I also see the gameplay in Arma 2 as painfully slow sometimes. Operation Flashpoint was the very reason I had to jump to BF1942!

But hey, sometimes its fun to slow down. Battlefield quickly becomes a killing field with non-stop repetitive action. Yesterday in Arma 2 we spent some 10 minutes trying to flip back a MHQ that a helo pilot accidentally dropped on a tree. Had to use explosives to get rid of the trees lol.

Both games have their place. Well not really the Battlefield series at the moment, since Battlefield Heroes is arcadey crap worse than anything seen before, Battlefield 1943 isnt even on PC yet and Battlefield 2/2142 is just old hat now. I dont care if the game really isnt for me, its just the only military game playable right now :p

[cadmium77 16]

I wasn't even sure whether I should be posting this on these particular forums or not considering a hell of a lot of you love this game, but nevertheless I decided to go ahead with it anyway. I'd greatly appreciate it if you guys could refrain from any mass "lol noob" or "learn2play real games such as Arma 2, then come back, until then stfu" type of comments. I'm not here to argue with anybody or get involved in any kind of flame war whatsoever, I'm merely getting some things off my chest and commenting on how I personally feel about the game.

As I said above, there WILL be many of you who love the game and that's absolutely fine, we're all different, but I have some issues with it that I'd just like to make you aware of. Anyway, I absolutely love First Person Shooters and especially like playing online with other people. I like fast paced action FPS's and games where it doesn't particularly matter all that much if you get killed because you'll just respawn in the next 10-20 seconds anyway. What I really expected (and was hoping) when buying this game was that it'd basically be a game like Battlefield 2 but with better graphics. The gameplay in Battlefield 2 is just the type of FPS I'm into, along with games such as Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Counterstrike Source, Crysis, Bioshock, Call of Duty etc etc. These are all fast paced FPS's with decent movement, graphics etc.

When I first booted up the game yesterday I was amazed at the graphics, they're brilliant, although 2 hours of playing later it seems that (for ME, granted not ALL of you) the graphics are the only real decent thing this game provided. For example, some of the issues I had were...

- Being unable to run & shoot at the same time prevented this 'fast paced' type of action I'm so used to when playing other FPS's. It's not like you can't run & shoot at the same time in real life. This feature should have been implemented but your accuracy could have suffered, which is exactly what would happen in the real world, and is exactly what happens in other games.

- I appreciate the developers wanting to make the game more "real" but having things like not being able to jump, not being able to do a handbrake turn in your vehicle (I wasn't able to, not sure if you actually CAN), not being able to run & shoot, only being able to get hit once or twice without being killed just ruined the fun for me completely. After all, this IS a game, it's NOT real life and it's all well & good basing SOME aspects of a game off some features of the real world, but when it goes so far as to sacrifice fun for more realism, that's going a bit overboard.

- The amount of controls in the game is overwhelming for me to be honest. There's just so many things you can do & it felt like I needed to have an amazing memory in order to remember everything. It was like the Flight Simulator version of an FPS. Absolutely loads of things you can say & do, and I personally just think they went a bit overboard in this respect. The controls were also very different to what I was used to when playing other FPS's. Fair enough, I'm able to manually CHANGE the controls myself, but almost every key on the keyboard was taken up by something or another, so if I wanted to change an action to a different key (kneel for example) I'd have to sacrifice another action in order to do it.

- When on a multiplayer server, it took SO LONG for me to find any action that I may aswell have gone & made a cup of coffee while I waited. For example, I once spent 10 mins or so looking for some action, only to be killed straight away as soon as I found some. I then had to spent ANOTHER 10 mins looking for some more action, for the same thing to happen all over again. It's definitely different to what I'm used to when playing other FPS's that cause you to spawn either right in the middle of the action, or just a few steps away when you die.

I'm sure a lot of you who have played games such as Battlefield 2 loved running around only to find an enemy coming at you, then mowing him down, hiding behind cover (having JUMPED over a car/wall), reloading, coming OUT of cover, then mowing another 2-3 people down with your machine gun only to be ambushed by a group of enemies causing you to sprint into the distance whilst taking a barrage of shots to the back at the same time. Now granted, this isn't real at all but it's FUN and when it comes to games that's mainly why people play them. I just can't see this type of situation occuring in a game like Arma 2.

You may be wondering WHY exactly I'm making this thread if I've already decided to not play this game, but that's the point, I'm not sure whether or not to stop playing. I mean, will it get better, will I start to enjoy it more the more I play etc? After watching videos of the gameplay on youtube, and not having played ANY of the previous ARMA games, I expected this game to be just like any other FPS, but unfortunately I was wrong and now I'm left here feeling disappointed and it's a shame to be honest, because I was really excited when I first bought ARMA 2. Like I said above though, I'm not going to return it to the store yet as I may find or hear of some reasons to play it again, but for now it seems destined to return to the shelves at my local games store.

This was in no way whatsoever intended to make fun of any of you who DO like the game, or to call the game a piece of sh*t etc, as I'm sure there are some features which do make it great, but it just didn't feel right to me when playing it which is why I've stopped playing for the time being.

Learn how to lead an AI squad of 12 men in the night into a huge battle on a massive battlefield and survive. Try it. Set up some scenarios with 10 platoons on either side of straight up infantry backed by a dozen APCs and 8 or 9 tanks headed with waypoints for a collision course.

There's no FPS that can touch it...

This is the finest game ever. It's amazing. If it didn't contain the seeds of greatness it wouldn't be vexing me so to learn its API.

[bigduksixx 15]

Learn how to lead an AI squad of 12 men in the night into a huge battle on a massive battlefield and survive. Try it. Set up some scenarios with 10 platoons on either side of straight up infantry backed by a dozen APCs and 8 or 9 tanks headed with waypoints for a collision course.

There's no FPS that can touch it...

This is the finest game ever. It's amazing. If it didn't contain the seeds of greatness it wouldn't be vexing me so to learn its API.

I agree.

I'm amazed that someone can accidentally buy this game not knowing what it's like. It's not like there's nothing written about in on the net.

The OP mentions other games that are basically for children to play. The whole style of gameplay that he like I actually hate. And imagine if I were to go on a Battlefield forum and start moaning about the lack of realism.

This thread is utterly redundant.

[chaplainDMK 10]

Well for your specific criteria i urge you to check games out on the net before buying them...

... Actualy, you should always check games out on the net so you dont get some piece of shit you dont like and you spent 50 bucks on it...

[JayMeal 10]

I'm at a total split, I'm the kinda guy that loves a simulator, if I can't do the real thing I want to be close to it, but I also love FPS with rapid action. But like most of us realize, only very rare occasions do soldiers come home boasting 10 kills in one fire fight. But on all these FPS like CoD, CS:S, etc, every round you kill 3-4 players, and get like 100 kills a game.

I play a lot of Source Engine based games, one I really started to enjoy was a mod for the HL2 game, called Insurgency. It's amazingly realistic, in the sense, you shoot someone in the head their dead, jump from a high place, dead, no health meters, or medkits, no crosshairs, only ironsights, but it combines that simulator feel with a fast pased FPS. The only reason ARMA isn't fast paced is because of the VASTNESS of it. How will you kill 10 people when theyre spread out in a 10km area or whatever?

It combines all types of games in my opinion, FPS shooters, strategy, and surprisingly RTS. Because you can control units, move units, create based, etc.

It doesn't just take one aspect and NAIL it completely it does a good job of bringing all necessary aspects into a game, which is why i've enjoyed playing it.

[rekrul 7]

My main attraction to the game isn't the actual shooting (as it usually leads to me being killed by unseen enemy ;)), but rather the planning of the mission. I think the strategy aspect of the game and the fact that it offers all aspects of an operation is the attraction of the game.

OP clearly only wants one aspect of a mission and since ArmaII offers the full package, this isn't really the game for him unless he "sees the light". :)

[wooly-back-jack 10]

Vanchatron if you like BF2 just think of this as being more like BF2 - Project Reality than the actuall vanilla game.

I like this kind of game but sometimes I still like to have a game of CoD4 or CS:S, I wouldn't class this game as a FPS, it's more of a military battle sim... which is what I was expecting.

Looks like I'll be playing CoD4, CS:S and reinstalling BF2:PR though untill a patch comes out cos I'm constantly crashing :(

[EricM 0]

@ the OP : Arma 2 can let you play almost in any way you want : Arcadish fun berzerk alien zombies rabbit invasion or extreme hardcore milsim.

It's just a matter of how you set the difficulty level and who you play with. You can add scripted jumps, infinite ammo, instant respawns... if you want to customize the game to your needs. Granted, it needs some knowledge and commitment.

Arma 2 is not only a simulator, it's a sandbox. It just happens to come out of the box with loads of rather realistic military features, but that's in no way the end of it.

Don't let the hardcore guys make you believe the contrary : you decide 80% of how you play the game, very little things are hardcoded.

Edited July 20, 2009 by EricM

[76 0]

Why add THAT MUCH realism to a game though is what I'm saying.

The same reason motor racing, flight, hunting, fishing, basketball, soccer, boxing etc etc, on and on and on games... 'simulations' do :)

the box cover does say and I quote "ULITIMATE COMBAT SIMULATOR"

[walker 0]

Hi Vanchatron

Watch out ArmA II will grow on you.

One day you find your self only playing ArmA II.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 20, 2009 by walker

[InFireBaptize 0]

yea BF2 is so run and gun game but if you add PR "project reality" mod, it will be completely a different game! almost close to ArmAII but with better sound in my opinion.

[{sas}stalker 10]

I'd stick with it for a bit Vanchatron, just be careful what mode you are playing, some, if not most of the PVP stuff is basically BF2 with bells on with many of the kits (especially the AT stuff) far easier than their BF2 counterparts to use.

At the moment i'm in a situation whereby I really like the game but aren't playing it for various reasons.

Edited July 20, 2009 by {SAS}Stalker

[iantis 10]

Why add THAT MUCH realism to a game though is what I'm saying.

Because we like it that way. Demand exists, Bohemia supplies, we pay them for it. Pretty simple, really.

[Guest]

Why did you post? It is a very good question.

You are saying the game should be changed because it doesn't have BF2 gameplay? Are you nuts? This game is a simulation, it doesn't want to be anything like BF2.

And in real life people do not run and shoot at the same time, you watch too many movies. In real life your carrying 80 pounds of gear, you do not bunny hop over cars and then jump out and mow down 3 people.

In real life you do not go rambo in your humvee, slap on the handbrake, eject at 50mph, and then get your rpg out and blow up a few people.

As you said, you like fast paced action. So WTF did you even try this game? And then take the effort to say its not fast paced and that it should be?

Ridiculous.

I understand you are not trolling, you come across nice enough. But you really should have thought about what you were saying before you posted.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Guest

[echo1 0]

You say "why add so much unrealistic junk" in CoD & BF... Because they're games? Games push the boundaries when it comes to being "unrealistic".

That, of course, completely depends on the game. Different people like different types of game.

No game should strive to be exactly like the real world, we live in the real world on a day to day basis, why play a game only to find out you're basically playing a re-enactment of what happens in the real world?

If ArmA2 is a re-enactment of the world you live in, I think it's time you moved house :whistle"

It's not like you can't run & shoot at the same time in real life.

If you could, it would be so innacurate that there would be no point in doing it at all. And I think that trying to hold up a gun and aim it would probably slow you down anyway. There's a good compromise in ArmA2 where you can walk and shoot with reasonable accuracy at short ranges.

Edited July 20, 2009 by echo1

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

lol, sometimes I think there is far too much action on ArmA2. I am rather the old traditional OFP style person. I rather run through the forrest for hours before encountering the first enemy. :D