ARMA2 put you off the Army ?

[Drumheller 19]

In my experience the Army puts you of the Army.

hahaha

QFT

[trickster1982 10]

Im currently in the process of joining the territorial army as a mortarman with the Yorkshire regiment (basically the extra money would help at the moment & im quite adventurous,a weekend bar job wouldnt suit me), Im doing a recruit selection weekend soon which will give me an idea as to whether I really want to serve or not, after that I can sign the contract or walk away, ArmA 2 is discouraging in places when your suddenly dropped by some enemy that you never saw or fired first, but to be honest I wouldnt have bought the game if I disliked the military!

The current news headlines about the sheer amount of British soldiers being killed,maimed, psychologically unbalanced & crippled in Afghan is putting me off far more than this game ever could!

The closest experience I've had to "real" combat so far is paintballing which I do on a regular basis & have all my own kit for, Ive played in some huge woodland "battles" & the ease you can get shot out of the game by being careless, not using cover,overrun or just in the wrong place is frightening when you think about how the same rule applies to a real firefight except with far more dire consequences! Paintball also gives a bit more of that fear because in ArmA 2 getting shot doesnt hurt, but in paintball it bloody stings so you do feel a genuine fear when someone is shooting at you & the adrenaline kicks in! I know neither experiences can ever come anywhere near close to how terrifying & horrible it must be in a real war but paintball is closer physically & mentally.

So whether I will actually go all the way & become a soldier (albeit part time) I dont know yet, ArmA 2 does put me off in places but reality is far better at discouraging me than that!

[mr reality 0]

I never played games before i enlisted, but i can honestly say that it would of had no effect on my decision.

I served in a british infantry regiment for 6 years, and in that time i did a 2 year posting to londonderry, NI. That was the closest i ever came to a 'combat' enviroment. I can honestly say that i enjoyed every minute of my time in NI. It was the routine boredom of catterick and a pointless posting to the falklands that bored me the most.

The bonding is something very few people actually experiance, and to have there lives in your hands, and vice versa, is a very rare feeling.

I never thought i was going to be shot at, just like i don't think i will be hit by a car if i cross the road.

@trickster1982, I was in a mortar platoon for 2 years (green howards, now the yorkshire regiment) it was the easiest 2 years of my army career. Once you dig your pit, put your mortar in it, your done. We were airlifted or landrovered everywhere, the furthest i had to walk was when i needed to take a piss.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Mr Reality

[granQ 293]

i think its great to read peoples stories and views on this matter, the ones that like to discuss religion, deaths, if video games help or not. please another thread.

I started to play ofp before my enlistment, we got conscription service, and my dad used to be an officer, making it not a "active choice" from my side really, just part of life.. like going to school was.

When I was around 16 we visited Normandie and while looking on some bunkers my dad mentioned something like the boys that died to free Europe was around my age... something that I remembered and I always wanted to do some peacekeeping since then.

3 weeks in my service my sister passed away (naturally) which really got me thinking of death, life and so on and on my last week. 3 months later I was totaly bored of army "lifestyle". Last weeks in my service I got to read the "internal news" that one fellow soldier was shot in the head and dead. Made me think about all the "random deaths" (later on it was confirmed it was a suicide and not an accident)

ArmA/ofp haven't made really put me off, but indeed enforced the feeling of it doesn't matter if you good or bad soldier, if you know all drills and textbook stuff. A mine wouldn't know the difference.

I would still like to do peacekeeping but are more and but more looking into civillian rescue operations, like after tsunami, earthquakes and so on.

[An Fiach 10]

Yeah, anfiach, thank you for your comment.

It also explains a lot.

I gave two examples where a victim didn't suffer like hell and endlessly just to show that these are so strange exceptions to reality that they are close to being unbelievable.

Reality delivers exceptions, is my point, but endless suffering while dying is normal, not an exception.

How many people have died in front of you?

---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 PM ----------

@Anfiach

ok I can tell you the last source I believe is the media. I have no idea where you got the idea that I got my information from the media. I trust historians as much as I can and my own critical thinking. I compare and contrast as many sources as I can come across on any particular given subject that I'm interested in, and I check sources with and without bias across the spectrum. I don't think any source is 100% accurate and I try to scrutinize all information I take in as much as I can.

Even if you don't want to write me a novel I will settle for the super abridged version gladly.

I highly doubt the statement: "that only in war will you ever witness the most selfless acts" not to say that there aren't a shortage of people that wouldn't jump on a live grenade to save their squad (You have to be some kind of brave to be a soldier), just saying there are plenty of selfless people all over the world (many of them pacifists mind you) that perform selfless acts.

"greatest sacrifice and the greatest love for your fellow man that is possible to express" I disagree.

I also did not get ahead of myself, perfectly aware that you mentioned most terrible as well.

Haven't too many historians written about wars that aren't over yet so your comments about how many people have died in the middle east as a result of the wars is wrong. Murder has nothing to do with WAR in general terms and that is what most have died from. The many murdered innocents have nothing to do with the wars we are engaged in.

I said the MOST selfless acts, I did not imply that ordinary people the world over do not engage in selfless acts, you misunderstand what I am saying and it isn't limited to diving on grenades. For my sacrifice and love comments you can disagree but then you haven't experienced it.

---------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

I never thought i was going to be shot at, just like i don't think i will be hit by a car if i cross the road.

Here in the US we lose more soldiers to training and to drunk driving than we do to combat. These days it is nothing like in the past. Of course you think about it when the bullets are flying but it really only gets to those that dwell on it. It really does put things in perspective though and teaches you not to worry at the petty things in life and you learn to appreciate the things of real importance.

[TangoRomeo 10]

_8rbHwMXMT8

I can relate to this man's point of view, he puts it better than i could.

[Lauxman 10]

He also sounds like the kind of guy who would refuse to serve because of something like a birth certificate.

[TangoRomeo 10]

Don't know about that, i didn't spoke to him. But i googled up his background.

Military career

Goff was sent to Vietnam in 1970-71 during the Vietnam war. He served with the 173rd Airborne Brigade as an infantryman, but was transferred to the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, NC after a bout of malaria. In 1973, he was honorably discharged with the rank of sergeant. After a break in service, he reenlisted in 1977, and was assigned to the 4th Infantry Division (Mechanized) as a Private First Class, re-earning his sergeant's stripes in 1979. That same year, he volunteered for Ranger School, and after graduation, was reassigned to the 2nd Ranger Battalion on Fort Lewis, WA.

After two years with the 2d Ranger Battalion, Goff earned the rank of Staff Sergeant, and reenlisted on condition of reassignment to the Jungle Operations Training Center in Panama working as a small unit tactics instructor. He volunteered for the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta (SFOD-D) during that assignment. After unit selection and training, Goff participated in operations in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Grenada (see Operation Urgent Fury).

Goff left Delta with the rank of Sergeant First Class in December, 1986, and joined the staff and faculty as one of the few enlisted instructors at West Point. He served as the NCOIC of the Service Orientation Course, and developed the Ranger Orientation Program that selected cadets to attend Ranger School during their Junior-Senior summer. He permitted his enlistment to expire in 1987, but rejoined the US Army shortly thereafter as a Staff Sergeant assigned to the 1st Ranger Battalion.

Goff then volunteered for Special Forces training, and became a Special Operations Medical Sergeant assigned to the 7th Special Forces Group at Fort Bragg. While with 7th Group, he performed training and operational missions in Central and South America. Many of these missions were presented officially to the public as "counter-narcotics" operations supporting the War on Drugs. Goff later wrote that this dissonance was formative in his political shift to the left.[citation needed]

Goff next sought reassignment to the 75th Ranger Regiment as a Special Operations Medical Sergeant in 1993, and was attached to 3rd Ranger Battalion as part of Task Force Ranger for the operation in Mogadishu, Somalia. Goff was redeployed to Fort Benning before the infamous Bakara firefight, after a dispute with a Ranger captain that verged upon violence. Not long after, he was promoted to Master Sergeant, effectively changing his job description from SF Medic to SF Operations Sergeant.

Goff was then reassigned back to Fort Bragg, to the 3rd Special Forces Group, where he was given the task of running a Special Forces team, called an A-Detachment (in this case, Operational Detachment - A (ODA) 354, a military free-fall parachute specialty team). The story of his time with this team, up to and including his retirement from the Army in February 1996 (with special emphasis on Operation Restore Democracy in Haiti in 1994) is recounted in detail in his first book, Hideous Dream - A Soldier's Memoir of the US Invasion of Haiti (Soft Skull Press, 2000).

[MadCatChiken 10]

Isn't the pay grade for a pilot in the RAF £30k a year? I was thinking about joining the RAF, but i'd rather join the Army Air Corp, fly Apaches. My gramps was in the RAF during WWII but as a flight instructure. Hes almost 97 now. He said he used to take his pupil up then land near a pub (this was in scotland) get pissed and then fly back pissed.. lol. But in the end i'll probs not join the military.

Edited July 21, 2009 by MadCatChiken

[Brainmagnet 10]

Anfiach I know that no number is completely accurate especially as pertaining to civilian deaths in Iraq (most likely higher than what is reported). Do you know how many civilians were killed in Vietnam? Did you know that 25% of U.S. troop deaths in the gulf war were due to friendly fire from air-strikes? Air-strikes kill more innocents than you or I can imagine. Cluster bombs don't always fully detonate when they are deployed and children are the most likely to pay the consequences. What about Depleted Uranium? You think that discriminates? Lot's of babies born in Iraq are born with deformities and they're attributing that to DU. I completely agree with Mr. Goff, he puts it far more eloquently than I can, thank you Tango Romeo for that video. Anfiach still waiting for that super abridged version (i.e.: Give me some facts). Can anyone tell me why we are in Iraq? Why did we go there in the first place? Because Colin Powell was coerced into lying to us, that's why.

[chaplainDMK 10]

Anfiach I know that no number is completely accurate especially as pertaining to civilian deaths in Iraq (most likely higher than what is reported). Do you know how many civilians were killed in Vietnam? Did you know that 25% of U.S. troop deaths in the gulf war were due to friendly fire from air-strikes? Air-strikes kill more innocents than you or I can imagine. Cluster bombs don't always fully detonate when they are deployed and children are the most likely to pay the consequences. What about Depleted Uranium? You think that discriminates? Lot's of babies born in Iraq are born with deformities and they're attributing that to DU. I completely agree with Mr. Goff, he puts it far more eloquently than I can, thank you Tango Romeo for that video. Anfiach still waiting for that super abridged version (i.e.: Give me some facts). Can anyone tell me why we are in Iraq? Why did we go there in the first place? Because Colin Powell was coerced into lying to us, that's why.

Oil?

Oh wait, now i remember. Your had a dream bout Sadam playing with chemical weapons and he ordered the entire US army to beat his country back into the stone age...

[cartier90 0]

Mad Cat, sure for a pilot, I think it may be 35 k, not as a lowly flight planner though.

[TAW_RiEvEr 10]

Armies exist for WAR - that's it. There is no point having an army if you're not planning on fighting *grins*

A peacekeeping force, or a deterrent, both mean you are willing to go to war if necessary.

The modern army tries to sell itself as a 'career move' which is understandable, since the truth of what happens in Helmand Province doesn't make for a good recruiting video. :)

I served 6 years in the British Army and enjoyed most of it. Nobody enjoys polishing things, painting things or stupid 'morale building exercises' (like running 5 miles in groups of four carying telegraph poles - sheesh) or tinpot NCOs who just like yelling at you a lot because they're on a power trip, but I did enjoy the ACTIVE service I saw.

It takes a certain mentality to enjoy the army. I still miss it and prefer it to civilian life, but circumstances were against me staying in any longer.

To those 'christians' quoting the 10 commandments - a couple of points:

1) There are way more than 10 - that was an arbitrary list extracted by the church from the old testament - picking out the bits they liked and dropping the tricky stuff like not having menstruating women around you, or how you treat donkeys *chuckles* (Check Exodus 34 for example)

2) It does not say "Thou shalt not kill" - that is a mistranslation. It says "Thou shalt not MURDER". (Exodus 20:13, Deut. 5:17) Murder, by definition, is not the same as killing.

If ArmA2 puts some people off being in the army, good. They were not cut out for the job and would have got themselves or their comrades killed.

If it doesn't put you off, then maybe it's time to investigate doing it for real if you feel that way inclined :D

[Brainmagnet 10]

New International Version (©1984)

"You shall not murder.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

'You shall not murder.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

"Never murder.

King James Bible

Thou shalt not kill.

American King James Version

You shall not kill.

American Standard Version

Thou shalt not kill.

Bible in Basic English

Do not put anyone to death without cause.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Thou shalt not kill.

Darby Bible Translation

Thou shalt not kill.

English Revised Version

Thou shalt do no murder.

Webster's Bible Translation

Thou shalt not kill.

World English Bible

"You shall not murder.

Young's Literal Translation

'Thou dost not murder.

I'm not a theologist though. The Koran is the least distorted holy book over time according to many ( the wahabist version is completely distorted though). Either way, I'd say that the majority of what happens in war is murder because non-combatant deaths always outnumber those of soldiers.

[TAW_RiEvEr 10]

Why list all those translations? Just put up the Hebrew Interlinear (http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo20.pdf) and the discussion is over - off topic now anyway since this is an ArmA2 forum not a "How to mistranslate Hebrew" workshop... *grins*

[Herbal Influence 10]

Nice & learned posts, guys!

[Brainmagnet 10]

TAW_RiEvEr thanks for the info I appreciate it, good post. Only thing is you are kind of ignoring what I said at the bottom of all those quotes which is was what really mattered in that post.

[TangoRomeo 10]

Armies exist for WAR - that's it. There is no point having an army if you're not planning on fighting *grins* A peacekeeping force, or a deterrent, both mean you are willing to go to war if necessary.

I think it has to seen in context with the reasons behind going to war today. With politics being a circumsstance not a soldiers choosing, one has to consider if he's willing to put his life on the line, or inflict harm upon others, for company profit, or for the exertion of expansionist roadmaps.

[BobbyDylan 10]

In all honesty, Saving Private Ryan put me off joining any of the armed forces. I don't do well with my girlfriend telling me to make the bed and peal potatoes, some hairy sergeant major would not go down well.

I play the game cos it's different form my mundane life. I don't; want to be in the military any more than I want to be an F1 driver. It's an escape for me.

[An Fiach 10]

Anfiach I know that no number is completely accurate especially as pertaining to civilian deaths in Iraq (most likely higher than what is reported). Do you know how many civilians were killed in Vietnam? Did you know that 25% of U.S. troop deaths in the gulf war were due to friendly fire from air-strikes? Air-strikes kill more innocents than you or I can imagine. Cluster bombs don't always fully detonate when they are deployed and children are the most likely to pay the consequences. What about Depleted Uranium? You think that discriminates? Lot's of babies born in Iraq are born with deformities and they're attributing that to DU. I completely agree with Mr. Goff, he puts it far more eloquently than I can, thank you Tango Romeo for that video. Anfiach still waiting for that super abridged version (i.e.: Give me some facts). Can anyone tell me why we are in Iraq? Why did we go there in the first place? Because Colin Powell was coerced into lying to us, that's why.

Babies being born deformed have nothing to do with our DU I mean would it be a stretch to assume it is from the chemical weapons that Saddam used on his own people? What does Vietnam have to do with Iraq? Or friendly fire incidents have to do with civilian deaths? Nothing. Your comments about Powell lying just show you have a bias based on media representation and not facts, so to further discuss it with you is a moot point as you have made up your mind already.

[Pyrodox 0]

I think it has to seen in context with the reasons behind going to war today. With politics being a circumsstance not a soldiers choosing, one has to consider if he's willing to put his life on the line, or inflict harm upon others, for company profit, or for the exertion of expansionist roadmaps.

I don't support this model. I don't like politicians deciding where soldiers go and what they do. I don't think someone should have the power to command solders into harms way for profitable gain, or political agendas. I don't think these are things worth expending human life over... However, I know it does happen.

The ideal by which soldiers would only ever be ordered on justified actions, obviously, is not met. However, does that negate the ideal of a soldier following a noble pursuit completely? I didn't know anyone when I was enlisted that said "Hey I get to fight for corporate profit!" The warrior ethos at it's core is a noble ideal, sacrifice one's self so others need not have to. Most true soldiers don't join up with the motive of being a tool of a corrupt political machine.

So, you may ask yourself why anyone would join if they know otherwise... Maybe all those soldiers just don't know any better, they're just ignorant and uninformed. Maybe some of them do know that they might be asked to do something based on political agenda, but also realize that if they do not dedicate themselves to being a soldier, harm could come to others they care for.

Morality has a funny way of creating those gray areas. I mean it's easy to sit back and say "Soldiers chose to be part of a military that's employed to effect political agendas and garner profit from their actions, therefore they are making an immoral choice." However, when you percieve reality as a existence tempered by conflicting ideals, not one sitting happily at one end of the spectrum or the other, there are some choices that arise about what is more important to you as an induvidual.

Essentially, do I want to forsake the ideal that a soldier follows a noble pursuit to protect others in favor of the ideal (it's obviously an ideal for someone out there) that soldiers are just tools to effect a political agenda? Is it more important for you to not be a part of something that could be misused, even if you personally have no desire to misuse it... Or is it more important, in your own views, to be a part of it, because chosing to not be a part of it would put others that you care about in greater danger?

Edited July 21, 2009 by Pyrodox

[An Fiach 10]

I think it has to seen in context with the reasons behind going to war today. With politics being a circumsstance not a soldiers choosing, one has to consider if he's willing to put his life on the line, or inflict harm upon others, for company profit, or for the exertion of expansionist roadmaps.

That is a question for any war, past or present, what is the reason behind them sending troops, it is not just a modern dilemma, or are you thinking if we went to Darfur that it would be a politically or financially motivated decision?

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

In all honesty, Saving Private Ryan put me off joining any of the armed forces. I don't do well with my girlfriend telling me to make the bed and peal potatoes, some hairy sergeant major would not go down well.

I play the game cos it's different form my mundane life. I don't; want to be in the military any more than I want to be an F1 driver. It's an escape for me.

LOL that's a good one :p

[TangoRomeo 10]

Food for thought.

Xm1B7x5JZfE

[Pyrodox 0]

Food for thought.

VIDEO

While I realize that is a "statement" piece, and facts are presented in it... It still seems to look at the military and the soldiers that make it up at a very cursory level.

You can't say "The military is used for immoral things, therefore anyone who choses to be part of it is making an immoral choice." A view of a soldier's morality is not as one-sided as that.

Like I said, I do not approve of many of the things that soldiers are ordered to do... But, I did not forsake the ideal that being a soldier is a noble pursuit in favor of it's counter-ideal that being part of a military makes you a tool of a corrupt government.

That video is titled "Why We Fight." Maybe it states the motives of those who would use the military as a tool to effect political agendas through force... But it definately is not the motive of a true soldier. At least none I've ever met or served with.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Pyrodox

[Brainmagnet 10]

Babies being born deformed have nothing to do with our DU I mean would it be a stretch to assume it is from the chemical weapons that Saddam used on his own people? What does Vietnam have to do with Iraq? Or friendly fire incidents have to do with civilian deaths? Nothing. Your comments about Powell lying just show you have a bias based on media representation and not facts, so to further discuss it with you is a moot point as you have made up your mind already.

Saddam gassed the Kurds anfiach, in the North of Iraq, how does that explain deformities in children born in other parts of the country? Vietnam has a lot to do with Iraq, two wars started on false pretenses. Friendly Fire incidents I guess don't always have to do with Civilian deaths, because civilians are more likely to be killed intentionally (like Saddam gassing the Kurds). My comments about Powell show how I have a bias based on media representation? How is that? That's a very serious accusation and you are going to have to be more detailed if you are going to accuse me of that because you are being downright insulting and I don't think I've leveled any personal attacks your way.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Brainmagnet
waned to clarify statement about civilian deaths