What is the value of a decent Simulation Engine??

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Imagine:

- ArmA 2 as it was intended, but without any severe bug

- a complete new physics simulation

- a CoC support with support for any kinf of CoC structure

- modding tools with HIGH QUALITY documentation

- 3d ingame editor with HIGH QUALITY documentation

...much much more.

What could BIS consider you would be willing to spend?

Reason why I open this poll? Because I assume ArmA2 is as it is because BIS hesitates to take more risk (money) for the engine development. Maybe we can convince them that it could work from business point of view. I would even pay in advance. I am a real idiot, right?

http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic for those having issues to deal with Euro

Edited July 17, 2009 by S!fkaIaC

[sakura_chan 9]

They've spent over a decade working with the same engine I don't think a few bucks from forum members is going to change that. They aren't EA, they don't have rooms full of programmers.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

There is a simple relation:

More trust in future income = more willingness to spend more money into development = more devs = better game

(edit: more devs of course do not lead necessarily into a better game, but the chnace is higher)

[Horus 83]

.... I am a real idiot, right?

No but...if we have a decent simulation engine with all tools and this great comunity i only buy that game 1 time and comunity will do the rest ;)

[llauma 0]

Arma2 is the game and VBS2 the simulator/training tool. You're asking for something unrealistic. They're working the best they can on delivering a game with realism/simulation as an aim but not necessarely a goal. If you're interested in real simulation then contact BIA, stack up some money and sign a contract.

If people could just take a step back and see what we actually have infront of us. It's an awesome game even though it has some bugs and outdated features. This is the creation and vision of a few guys working like hell to deliver something they can be proud of. It's actually amazing that this is the result of a work which probably started with Suma writing the first lines of code for the game. They're not gods but they managed to create a virtual world out nothing.

[S!fkaIaC 10]

Arma2 is the game and VBS2 the simulator/training tool. You're asking for something unrealistic. They're working the best they can on delivering a game with realism/simulation as an aim but not necessarely a goal. If you're interested in real simulation then contact BIA, stack up some money and sign a contract.

If people could just take a step back and see what we actually have infront of us. It's an awesome game even though it has some bugs and outdated features. This is the creation and vision of a few guys working like hell to deliver something they can be proud of. It's actually amazing that this is the result of a work which probably started with Suma writing the first lines of code for the game. They're not gods but they managed to create a virtual world out nothing.

Errm that was not the question. Just state what you would pay if you like.

If BIS/BIA getting (I just assume) in average 1500€ for a single VBS2 licence but you sell VBS2 now in a wider area or you recycle the old+stable older VBS version and keeping the brand new stuff for the army or the other way around.....dunno.

It is up to BIS what they do with the outcome of this poll - facing the fact that the statistical base is veeeery small.

You're asking for something unrealistic.

You just do not have nuff fantasy.

They know the dev.-cost for the current engine. They know the cost for making this engine to VBS (if it is still the case that basic moduls of VBS are inherit from OFP/ArmA) They know the imcome + amount of licences sold for both game and VBS.

Now I try to find out if there is a market segment between ArmA 2-bugfestival and VBS2 (maybe full of bugs too??)

So WHAT IS WRONG with that attempt?

The worst thing that could happen is that my assumption is wrong that there is a significant bunch of customers willing to pay more, even anually, for a much better product.

This is the creation and vision of a few guys working like hell to deliver something they can be proud of.

You call me unrealistic, but you are a hopeless dreamer. That was their initial reason maybe, but currently they do hard business.

Recognize: they do it for money - they are corrupt! :eek: :cool:

Edited July 17, 2009 by S!fkaIaC

[Geezer_AU 0]

As llauma says the product you imagined does already exist! Its called VBS and the Australian army uses it to train their troops, you too CAN buy this product AND it has a price! (undoubtedly set by BIS ;)).

Isnt it great when dreams come true ;)

Geezer

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Maybe you should have put currency conversions for the poll options... not everybody knows what the value of a Euro is... :j:

[S!fkaIaC 10]

http://www.oanda.com/converter/classic

[EricM 0]

I already bought 2 copies or Arma 2 and I did the same with Arma 1. So I guess I'd be willing to shell up to a hundred euros for the game at first, and then some more for the expansions. For the countless hours of fun I had, that'd still be cheaper than most of the other games around (60 euros = 10 hours of gameplay).

Heck, I would probably gladly pay for some kind of additional "subscription" (like the ones you pay for 3D software, like 3DS Max) to have regular official updates, islands, early access to new features and preferential upgrade plan to Arma 3.

Mmmh... I might even open a poll to see if that's of interest to some other people.

[llauma 0]

I'll repeat it again. They have a simulator called VBS. Why not buy it?

To be honest, I think BIS would make more money by taking the opposite approach. Making it more arcadish/mainstream will appeal a much larger audience. Include the console market to that and they'll make much more money than if they would turn it into VBS2.

[andersson 285]

Why pay when I know that BIS will patch this up for free? Look at OFP and ArmA when it comes to patches and the end result.

I think arma2 is more than decent now, and I believe it will be really great when its properly patched up. This is why I support BIS and buy whatever they throw at me, I know they deliver.

[TangoRomeo 10]

I was willing to spend 129 EUR on a modern armor simulation, and a couple of hundred Euros on a flightsimulator + addons. But i don't know of many people thinking likewise. Depending on system depth, engine capatibilities and predicted longvity, i´d be willing to shove out a couple of hundred $ for a realistic combined arms simulation. But that's not going to happen.

The mainstream market features plug&play, fire&forget, technofob-proof-... or whatever you might call it -content. I see the simulation community being more of an exclusive club of nerds, with a dwindling market share. This is why it gets so little attention, it simply does not pay off for the publisher/ developer.

[MehMan 0]

Maybe you should have put currency conversions for the poll options... not everybody knows what the value of a Euro is... :j:

More than a US dollar. That's all you need to know.

[cadmium77 16]

No but...if we have a decent simulation engine with all tools and this great comunity i only buy that game 1 time and comunity will do the rest ;)

Like Rfactor...no proprietary stuff from Formula One or anything..just a great physics and graphics engine that the user base has worked on and turned into an amazing simulator.

---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

I was willing to spend 129 EUR on a modern armor simulation, and a couple of hundred Euros on a flightsimulator + addons. But i don't know of many people thinking likewise. Depending on system depth, engine capatibilities and predicted longvity, i´d be willing to shove out a couple of hundred $ for a realistic combined arms simulation. But that's not going to happen.

The mainstream market features plug&play, fire&forget, technofob-proof-... or whatever you might call it -content. I see the simulation community being more of an exclusive club of nerds, with a dwindling market share. This is why it gets so little attention, it simply does not pay off for the publisher/ developer.

Only the lowly paid and brilliant eastern Euros/Russians will take it on out of some mad passion. Oleg Maddox is god.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Cadmium77

[katua 10]

If you go to exchange money, with 1 € they give you 1.41025 $

or if you go with 1 $ they give you 0.709437 €.

For example 50 € is 70.4 $

Edited July 17, 2009 by katua

[Windexglow 10]

If you go to exchange money, with 1 € they give you 1.41025 $

or if you go with 1 $ they give you 0.709437 €.

For example 50 € is 70.4 $

I normally just double it and remove a few percent for the US figure. Not exactly accurate but gets the general figure.

[TangoRomeo 10]

Only the lowly paid and brilliant eastern Euros/Russians will take it on out of some mad passion. Oleg Maddox is god.

He sure is one of a kind. Man, i miss those flaming debates about porking this or that detail, with people throwing engine performance charts and ballistic tables at him, to get their favorite toy to perform as they would like to, or to make up for their lacking flying skills .

Oleg holds a monopol in the WW2 flightsim genre, it would be unwise for bigger companies trying to compete in this genre. But i guess that also goes for the other way around, image Maddox games trying to compete in the FPS market - epic fail. Often smaller companies have no choice but to cater the niche markets, what's left of the big pie, in our case, simulations. But i agree, many of them also do it with a passion and long-time commitment to their product.

[hoak 0]

Uhm, they already offer a simulator collaboration with BIA and other partners in VBS2... As far as sim/realism/gaming -- I can't feature what's important to you that you feel is missing from ArmA II...

As a VBS2 Owner I'd also caution you that the audience interested in this level of realism is very small -- so if it's multi-player simulation that compels you, think twice.

ArmA has a superb near sim Mod called A.C.E. that I believe they're planning on making for ArmA II as well, that at least has a multi-player audience that sustains it...

I guess I don't really understand this poll or thread, ArmA II and VBS2 fill every void in serious realism gaming and simulation I can imagine...

:confused:

[Alex72 1]

As of the question what i would pay if i got a flawless (well some bugs ofcourse) with tools and well documented with realistic elements (more than now) then i would definatelly pay every year and a respectful sum.

Im a grown up. I got a job. I want as much juice in a sim i can get. So yes i would pay up to 100-150$/year to have an excellent sim ala ARMA2 style (but more!) with patches coming with new content now and then.

Yep. I would. In a heartbeat.

PS. Im extremely greatful to all the modders out there that do bring us a better experience. They up the game extremelly much.

Alex

Edited July 18, 2009 by Alex72

[LJF 0]

The current engine is brilliant, it just needs improved physics :D

[hoak 0]

What's wrong with the physics?

:confused:

[S!fkaIaC 10]

I'll repeat it again. They have a simulator called VBS. Why not buy it?

To be honest, I think BIS would make more money by taking the opposite approach. Making it more arcadish/mainstream will appeal a much larger audience. Include the console market to that and they'll make much more money than if they would turn it into VBS2.

OMG! And I repeat again: I talk about the price you are willing to pay! If the sales solution would be to sell a stripped down VBS or just the older version of VBS - OK. But I try to find the price you are willing to pay. I am sure that you would not find a sufficient customer base willing to pay the VBS price as it is now. But BIS/BIA could get in total maybe more when they try to sell it on a larger footprint.

Aim would be to enabe BIS/BIA to maintain the released version AND working on a new version - not the OR as today.

And BIS would have the money to do the first time real systematic testing - even during production process :cool:

---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------

What's wrong with the physics?

:confused:

You kidding right?

[andersson 285]

Well, I maybe misunderstood your core point of this thread. I guess money doesnt matter for me when it comes to BIS, they are the reason I have a gaming rig. If not for BIS I probably would go for an apple or linux laptop only.. So what I already pay to play BIS titles :eek:, its a shame that BIS ends up with so small % of that sum..

[scars09 9]

You noticed that few weeks before arma2 a arma1 patch was released, which means they maintained the current version while working on the new version.

If hoak would have been Betatester you still would have a prob with the physics, different people different views, no product pricing policy will change that.

And 100% documented tools/editor, how many people actually read the fucking manual?