.mdl (FS2004) to .p3d?

[rocket 9]

Now seriously how many people do you think will actually do that , instead of making some pretty decent mods for Arma/Arma2

Well, in my case:

• I now work as a Producer at www.sidheinteractive.com, leading teams that make console games.
  
• I also do freelance work for IRIS Simulations, making FSX models.
  

I started out modding ArmA and FS9, while I was an Officer in the RNZAF. It was my modding work and the clan website I run, that got me in the door as an AP. I was the first Producer they'd hired from outside the industry in their ten year history, and my modding work was a major part in the reason I was hired. So I'm living proof.

[acer1961 10]

Well, in my case:

• I now work as a Producer at www.sidheinteractive.com, leading teams that make console games.
  
• I also do freelance work for IRIS Simulations, making FSX models.
  

I started out modding ArmA and FS9, while I was an Officer in the RNZAF. It was my modding work and the clan website I run, that got me in the door as an AP. I was the first Producer they'd hired from outside the industry in their ten year history, and my modding work was a major part in the reason I was hired. So I'm living proof.

But you are the exception rather than the rule.

If we only allowed original work and not rips (of course with permission) there would be a fair number of mods that we wouldn't get at all.

I appreciate the work you do, but don't begrudge others for ripping and importing.

As someone else said in this thread, if you don't like rippers then don't download and play their mods.

[soul_assassin 1723]

Aerospace engineer by education, started modding for OFP, now had my own freelancing company for 2.5 years working with many clients including in the serious-gaming sector. Living proof + 2.

[acer1961 10]

Aerospace engineer by education, started modding for OFP, now had my own freelancing company for 2.5 years working with many clients including in the serious-gaming sector. Living proof + 2.

No one is saying it doesn't happen but again you are the exception rather than the rule.

[soul_assassin 1723]

And what we are trying to say is that there are soooooo many of these 'exceptions' on these very forums. The real point is that it CAN happen, but not with ripping, with practice, patience and just enjoying what you do.

[rocket 9]

If we only allowed original work and not rips (of course with permission) there would be a fair number of mods that we wouldn't get at all.

I think there is a bit of misunderstanding - my issue is that I think people new to modding should be very careful when using any 3d reference material, as it can end up being more work than actually making it yourself over the top of the reference. I took exception to labeling it as "easy". I haven't had any luck with 3d ripper myself, as I'm on DX10 and Vista 64bit, and the last version I tried didn't load at all. But I do use many 3d reference libraries in pretty much all my projects, as I'm fortunate to have access to many of these through work.

So to labor the point... I think its dangerous to suggest its easy. In the hands of a skilled person? Yes, perhaps it is. Look at Gnat's piper. That aircraft inspired me to really get into trying to make good mods. But I started trying to make addons from the high poly reference I had... and I just couldn't get anywhere even with polygon strippers. Maybe my standards are too high when it comes to visual quality - but I found that the best result came from manually crafting it using highpoly as a base to draw nurbs and extrude polys over.

[acer1961 10]

I think there is a bit of misunderstanding - my issue is that I think people new to modding should be very careful when using any 3d reference material, as it can end up being more work than actually making it yourself over the top of the reference. I took exception to labeling it as "easy". I haven't had any luck with 3d ripper myself, as I'm on DX10 and Vista 64bit, and the last version I tried didn't load at all. But I do use many 3d reference libraries in pretty much all my projects, as I'm fortunate to have access to many of these through work.

So to labor the point... I think its dangerous to suggest its easy. In the hands of a skilled person? Yes, perhaps it is. Look at Gnat's piper. That aircraft inspired me to really get into trying to make good mods. But I started trying to make addons from the high poly reference I had... and I just couldn't get anywhere even with polygon strippers. Maybe my standards are too high when it comes to visual quality - but I found that the best result came from manually crafting it using highpoly as a base to draw nurbs and extrude polys over.

Dangerous to whom. If the person fails using a 3dripper , then so be it. I think perhaps dangerous is too strong a word.

I probably should have told folks this before, but this isn't my 'regular' name on the forums. I have released a number of addons to the community. ALL using 3dripper. When I started to see the 'flavour' of this thread and others about ripping , I figured I didn't want to post under my regular. BTW, I got permission from every author's work I used. I had actually done a bunch that I could not get permission for.

I can see what you didn't like 3dripper if using Vista and DX10. That is why I mostly use FS2004 models, less things to deal with.

Edited July 23, 2009 by acer1961

[rocket 9]

Dangerous to whom. If the person fails using a 3dripper , then so be it. I think perhaps dangerous is too strong a word.

(Most) people come to these forums for advice.

My advice:

1. Get all the reference you can; be it 3d ripped, 3d libraries, still images, plans, blueprints, physical walk-arounds, manuals.

2. Control the geometry/texture creation yourself as much as possible, customizing it to the engine you are developing for. Create the geometry yourself in such a way you have complete control.

Franze summed up my experiences above:

"I believe it's far more work to take a model built for a different engine based on completely different standards than it is to learn how to make your own."

[acer1961 10]

(Most) people come to these forums for advice.

My advice:

1. Get all the reference you can; be it 3d ripped, 3d libraries, still images, plans, blueprints, physical walk-arounds, manuals.

2. Control the geometry/texture creation yourself as much as possible, customizing it to the engine you are developing for. Create the geometry yourself in such a way you have complete control.

Franze summed up my experiences above:

That sure hasn't been my experience at all. I have found that if you get decent polygon models, i.e. under 25k , you can create some amazing work with very little effort to get it into O2. Remember again, the work you do in O2 is there regardless of the origin of the models.

---------- Post added at 01:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------

Which is far from the point. If they're used with permission from the original authors, that is acceptable. If they're stolen and no permissions have been granted, it's wrong and it can get people in trouble.

I believe it's far more work to take a model built for a different engine based on completely different standards than it is to learn how to make your own.

People, trust me when I say you are really inhibiting yourself when you simply look to port the work of others. You gain far more by doing it yourself.

Now, IF this topic is going to remain on the actual method of converting .mdl to .p3d, then I would see it as OK and leave it open. If this is about taking models without any permissions given, it's getting closed.

Franze: How many models have you ripped from another game and put into O2

[rocket 9]

That sure hasn't been my experience at all. I have found that if you get decent polygon models, i.e. under 25k , you can create some amazing work with very little effort to get it into O2. Remember again, the work you do in O2 is there regardless of the origin of the models.

Imagine a 15 year old kid comes to you, says he wants to make an addon for an F15. What would you recommend? That he rip one from FS9? Purchase a copy of 3ds Max 9, and a polygon stripper, and then optimize it? How easy is that going to be? I think it is much easier to direct them to the "My First Airplane" tutorials for OFP. Create a cylinder with some wings, and then get better slowly.

Optimization is a skill, a unique one. At my work, the experienced 3d artists are the ones we assign to optimization work. This thread was Myke (who is very new to modeling) asking for ideas on how he could bring a model in. Overall, the recommendations have been exactly what Franze said above.

I'd also recommend any people new to the community, listen carefully to what people such as DaSquade, Franze, Soul Assassin say. These guys have been here a long time, there are reasons behind their opinions. The forums are here to give people help and recommendation on the best way forward.

[acer1961 10]

Imagine a 15 year old kid comes to you, says he wants to make an addon for an F15. What would you recommend? That he rip one from FS9? Purchase a copy of 3ds Max 9, and a polygon stripper, and then optimize it? How easy is that going to be? I think it is much easier to direct them to the "My First Airplane" tutorials for OFP. Create a cylinder with some wings, and then get better slowly.

Optimization is a skill, a unique one. At my work, the experienced 3d artists are the ones we assign to optimization work. This thread was Myke (who is very new to modeling) asking for ideas on how he could bring a model in. Overall, the recommendations have been exactly what Franze said above.

I'd also recommend any people new to the community, listen carefully to what people such as DaSquade, Franze, Soul Assassin say. These guys have been here a long time, there are reasons behind their opinions. The forums are here to give people help and recommendation on the best way forward.

Actually his question was how to convert the MDL format into something usefull for O2. So if you are referring to the OP telling him to make the model himself doesn't actually answer his question.

"I'm not familiar with 3D programs (besides O2) so i'm stuck on how i could get .mdl format models into O2 (.p3d)."

[rocket 9]

So if you are referring to the OP telling him to make the model himself doesn't actually answer his question.

Yes it does, its: "Don't go there!". Just because its not the answer he'd like, doesn't mean its not answering the question.

[acer1961 10]

Yes it does, its: "Don't go there!". Just because its not the answer he'd like, doesn't mean its not answering the question.

Oh come on Rocket, it doesn't answer the question at all. You know better than that.

To use an analogy to describe the answer you gave above.

Someone asks

"What is 2 + 2"

Your answer would be

"You shouldn't be asking that question , you need to know what is 3 + 3" and then you claim you answered the guys question.

Edited July 23, 2009 by acer1961

[rocket 9]

Yes, you're absolutely right.

Shame on me for not suggesting to someone with no experience in 3d modeling, that they might want to get some experience modeling before they try and port a 3d model ripped from another engine, purchase 3ds Max 9, purchase a polygon stripper, fix it up in the software they don't know how to use, and then import it into O2.

I'll go post in other topics, where I don't make a fool of myself!

[acer1961 10]

Yes, you're absolutely right.

Shame on me for not suggesting to someone with no experience in 3d modeling, that they might want to get some experience modeling before they try and port a 3d model ripped from another engine, purchase 3ds Max 9, purchase a polygon stripper, fix it up in the software they don't know how to use, and then import it into O2.

I'll go post in other topics, where I don't make a fool of myself!

:(

My god man, no need to get like that.

[Dragon44 0]

That's why not much talk these issues here in the forum, I have to fear :butbut:! people think that something is wrong and we end up paying for it.

From my point of view what happens is that we can enjoy the other games, including all of them, I do not want the addons ArmA are the only "imported" but has a thing or two we can take. And it need not be banned because of people using the wrong program, just people do not leave these people to disclose them here at work and in community sites dedicated to the game.

I see the FS, GTA and other games available addons excellent and I wonder, why not ask the author for permission and transform this into an addon? Now if I make this addon from scratch for sure he will be beautiful as the model for another game and I lose more time.

Same with the addons ArmA see such an addon of SuperPuma already launched and ready, and I would like to make an addon of SuperPuma more so have to make from scratch? is easier to ask permission to the author of this SuperPuma released and use it, for me it is same with other games, if we can use other addons just changing textures of the weapon or other things because we can not use addons for other games, it quaze the same thing.

[franze 196]

Franze: How many models have you ripped from another game and put into O2

That would be zero.

I started making models for FP back at the end of 2002. My first project was an AH-1W that, by today's standards was a horrible, over sized piece of junk. But it pointed me in the right direction and I had a great time making the model. :)

You see, there's a philosophical question you have to ask yourself before you even get started: are you making addons because you like doing it, or are you doing it to be famous? More people are going to chew your butt out for doing an addon than praising the work you do on it. If your primary purpose is to simply make a name for yourself, you will be disappointed and you will miss out. That's why a lot of veterans tend to ask "You can rip a model, but what for? Why skip out on the fun part?"

Ripping doesn't tend to make a lot of sense to those of us who have typically had our hands in almost every component of modding. I actually started out by playing with configs before I got into models, and I didn't actually get into scripting until much later.

Anyways, I have exported a few models made in O2 into 3DS format; this was so a teammate could test out some rendering features that O2 was unable to perform. We did try a few imports from 3DS format however - the only real issue was getting the scaling done properly. These were typically optimized parts or objects built in O2, exported, mapped, and then imported again.

So, taking that into account, the conversion process would probably have to be .mdl > .3ds > .p3d. I'm not sure how mapping would play into this as some remapping will probably be required, and O2 is kind of difficult to work with in terms of mapping. Max is far better for mapping out the textures, but if you don't have access to that, I'd check out O2's UV Editor.

[DaSquade 0]

I probably should have told folks this before, but this isn't my 'regular' name on the forums. I have released a number of addons to the community. ALL using 3dripper. When I started to see the 'flavour' of this thread and others about ripping , I figured I didn't want to post under my regular. BTW, I got permission from every author's work I used. I had actually done a bunch that I could not get permission for.

So you are saying you use a double account. Even if you don't, why would you be affraid to post under your 'known' (respected?) forumname. Are you thinking 'ripping' is indeed in some from cheating? :p

Joking, don't take it too seriously mate. Same for me, maybe i take this hole thing too seriously. But 'ripping' still feels durty and not rewarding towords myself. But you make a point, why wast all the time to make your stuff if you can 'easly' skip the hole modelling process and start on the cfg part.

Again Rocket scores in my book:

My advice:

1. Get all the reference you can; be it 3d ripped, 3d libraries, still images, plans, blueprints, physical walk-arounds, manuals.

2. Control the geometry/texture creation yourself as much as possible, customizing it to the engine you are developing for. Create the geometry yourself in such a way you have complete control.

At least if he means, ripp away and get as much as possible data (3d and 2d)..but use that as a reference to build your own work. At least those persons in my book get a big respect.

->I made a vector21 recently based on 2d reference pictures. Although i didn't had any good building pictures of it form, i thought it was pretty accurate. I showed it to someone in the buisness and he explains it was a bit off in global shape. He has the real model and they have a 3d scanner. He was that kindly to send me the scanned model (although it was a bit rough and not super detailed)...Anyway, i used this as reference and modified my model according to the scanned one. I could have cheated and restarted from the actual scanned model (would of needed a lot of cleaning up though)...

Originally Posted by acer1961 View Post

Now seriously how many people do you think will actually do that , instead of making some pretty decent mods for Arma/Arma2

Studied for architect, did it for a few years but went on a different road (dockworker now). Been self-educating myself since the release of OFP. I still have a long road to go even after all these years...

But:

- Fulltime job (dockworker, gets my bills paid and i really enjoy the work/envirement).

- Freelance modding work (it was an oppertunity that came along..but in the end this is the least fullfilling part imho. Deadlines aren't my thing as it often goes against my creativity and standards).

- Hobby: spending my free time on making ArmA addons (most full filling thing, especially if you know you did all the steps and only have to credit yourself).

*So livingproof +3.

Make no mistaken. There are a lot (really) people who are in the same boat just in this small community. A lot have left the scene (a lot lost interest but a lot went fulltime 3d artist within BIS/BIA or other game developing buisnesses).

Anyway, didn't want to drag this OT. But imho it all comes to one thing. Modding is some sort of lifestyle. Sure you can rip other stuff and try to get it optimized to this engine...but in the end, what do you learn out of that? I know, time is for everybody a pain. Sure anybody even a modeler want item X or item Z as fast ingame as possible, but if you are only looking for the fast and easy way, i'm not sure if this is the path you want to travel.

Don't get me wrong, not everybody has to follow that road and everybody has a different opinion on that. But you might find out that those who take the long and hard road to learn and try to master one aspect of the process will easier get some respect...witch lead this person will easier be helped when he encounters a problem and faces an issue.

Originally Posted by acer1961 View Post

So if you are referring to the OP telling him to make the model himself doesn't actually answer his question.

Yes, well again sure he can rip..but again like rocket and franze say. Why wouldn't you first try out how those who made the stuff you want to rip, if you didn't tried to make it yourself. Ok, nobody will launch a program for the first time and have a nicer first model. But ok, for some the hole modeling progress isn't just their hobby/life and it is just the end result (and the fame they get if they release something fast).

You make some point about the fact there are tons of for example the superpuma model. Some maybe even in better quality then anyone around here can make. Ohwell, maybe some of use have just spend too much time into modeling we forget that in the end it is just a game :p.

[.kju 3240]

There is nothing wrong with taking models from another source with permission.

Same is done with textures, sounds, tools, experience, algorithms, manpower every day.

Pretty weird attitude to try to make one's view the only valid and one possible to have.

Edited July 24, 2009 by kju

[DaSquade 0]

@kju: Sorry mate, but i'm stepping out of the ring. Looks like already one member lost the battle and got suspended.

*Everbody his own opinion...peace.

[[frl]myke 14]

Damn, if i leave the kids alone for 5 minutes....:D

So cool down, grab your teddybear, big Daddy is here to tell you a story.....not. :p

First of all i would like to say thanks to everyone who contributed to this discusssion, no matter what his/her point was. A good and productive discussion lives by as much different point of views possible. Thats why i say thanks to all with all my respect.

Ok, now rather back to topic...hmm...hold a sec, have to go back to see what the topic actually is....ah yes....mdl to .p3d conversion. Ok, actually i'm short on time to really start something new, even if it's only a conversion from FSX. So i didn't tested anything that has been suggested at this point. Shame on me, i know.

But i'll surely come back to it later in my life as i find the time to.

And now i would like to rephrase my initial question, not because it wasn't answered until now but to remind everyone what the question was.

How do i convert .mdl (FSX) model data into .p3d (O2) model data. I have to say that i have ArmA/ArmA 2 and the BIS Tools but i don't own FS or 3DS Max. For sure i would download any required (open source or free) software which could be needed to achieve the conversion.

Please focus on this and don't start discussing about LOD optimization and texture issues as this will surely take place in the optimization process after the conversion. Except those steps have to be done while converting of course.

Also please remember that i'm not a highly educated guy, not the youngest anymore, not english native (although i guess you get a decent idea how good/bad my english is) and not really a fast learner...so explain it to me as you would to a 4 years old. :o

So, if all has been said in previous posts about how it can be done, no need to repeat it, i'll re-read the whole thread carefully ASAP.

And again, really thanks to everyone who was contributing to this thread, honestly.

[rocket 9]

Hi Myke,

It is not possible to directly convert an FSX MDL file to the BIS P3D file. There are no converters for this process. FSX MDL files are very different from Unreal (and other) MDL files, as the FSX file format is a proprietary one.

However:

1. With a good knowledge of both 3d file formats, it would theoretically be possible to write such a converter. This would take some time. I only know a handful of people who would be able to do this.

2. If you own FSX and 3ds Max, and possibly a polygon stripping plugin also, then you might be able to use the 3d Ripper program mentioned above.

Unfortunately those are your own options, unless you can get Alphasim to send you a copy of the source files in 3DS or OBJ formats.

[[aps]gnat 28]

It is not possible to directly convert an FSX MDL file to the BIS P3D file. There are no converters for this process.

+1 ....

From my research, downloading, testing etc (a year or so ago mind you), I found no tool that would convert recent .mdl files.

I DID find 1 or 2 tools (1 step convert or separate programs for 2 step conversion) that would convert older FS models (pre 2004 and some 2004). But because the model quality was low and it didn't bring texture mapping across properly, it wasn't really worth it.

[EricM 0]

I've seen a FSX MDL to Blender importer/exporter. Haven't tried it myself, but for those interested, you may use blender as a free converter/intermediate.

Link

[Bartchie 10]

My old nick was Tysiek. Take a look at this video:

It's default FSX's B737-800 model imported into ArmA1.

I did it using this application:

http://www.deep-shadows.com/hax/3DRipperDX.htm