Infantry shooting at choppers

[vasmkd 12]

I played the demo, game runs fine and i'm loving the demo. Only used the editor but i noticed that AI infantry with rifles only will not shoot at choppers unless the choppers are 1 or 2 feet above ground or they have landed.

I think that it would be a good idea if infantry (AI) can shoot at choppers too. Just make it hard for them to destroy the chopper with rifles and concentrate more on ground fire (first prioity) when ground and air targets are available.

I would like to see this feature because in real life if a chopper was after u and u had no where to hide u would naturally shoot at them as a last resort

What do u guyz think?

Edited June 27, 2009 by vasmkd

[Jonny_LI 10]

I played the demo, game runs fine and i'm loving the demo. Only used the editor but i noticed that AI infantry with rifles only will not shoot at choppers unless the choppers are 1 or 2 feet above ground or they have landed.

I think that it would be a good idea if infantry (AI) can shoot at choppers too. Just make it hard for them to destroy the chopper with rifles and concentrate more on ground fire (first prioity) when ground and air targets are available.

I would like to see this feature because in real life if a chopper was after u and u had no where to hide u would naturally shoot at them as a last resort

What do u guyz think?

Have you ever tried hitting a helecopter thats moving at altitude with a Rifle?

I'm glad the AI don't bother trying, I've done a shoot with a GPMG on a pintle mount against radio controlled aircraft and that was bloody hard. Low flying choppers at certain angles with something belt fed is as far as I'd go in trying to engage a helo with small arms.

[vasmkd 12]

I hit clay targets and understand a chopper would be hard especially with rifle but in the game u can bring one down as a soldier if ur out of all other weapons with lucky shot or just the gunner atleast and yes it's hard.

I'm not talking long distance stuff.

In the editor i cleaned up 15 or more remaining enemy AI just by hovering near them and they did nothing. They could have atleast tried to run away or shot the choppers machine gunner who cleaned them up as i just hovered near them.

Maybe if the chopper gets close and under certain speed they then could react.

Sorry should have made my post more clear.

Edited June 27, 2009 by vasmkd

[max power 21]

Most military helicopters are armoured against rifle fire, I think. Shooting at a moving one would be an excercise in futility, and may only serve to piss off the heavily armed crews.

[dvolk 10]

I think I've seen machine gunners and snipers shoot at helicopters.

Didn't do much good, except make the helicopter angry.

[Jonny_LI 10]

Running away or to cover - much better suggestion to be honest.

[frederf 0]

USMC infantry are trained not to shoot at aircraft unless they really, really have to and then you get a company or better and mass fires like crazy.

[Jonny_LI 10]

USMC infantry are trained not to shoot at aircraft unless they really, really have to and then you get a company or better and mass fires like crazy.

The British Paras had to do this in the Falklands actually, but it was more like a Battalion opening up and the jet was flying pretty low too - the best part is they hit the thing and it had just attacked a British ship before hand!

They took pot shots at all low flying aircraft till their CO ordered them not too to conserve ammo.

Hence why the only Air Defence shoots we do now is with the GPMG (or M240 to you) and even then its extremely rare we do it.

[nodunit 397]

Running away or to cover - much better suggestion to be honest.

Oh yes, a quick tie in with a Mi-24 teaches you this lesson veeeeeeery quickly.

[Bravo0246 0]

Seeing that the Russian Helicopters might as well be flying tanks i use the SMAW, you would be surprised how easy it is to take them down with it as it is very accurate.

[vasmkd 12]

It will not be too hard to hit the huey/mi-8/mi-24/mh-60 door gunners if the chopper is pretty close, hovering or flying very slow. A script could be useful here which tells AI to only fire if all situations are true

I agree the AI trying to take out an armoured gunship like ka-52 etc would be pointless with small arms fire and running to cover is the only option here

also agree running to cover is the best option at times for AI

Its just boring too see "intelligent" AI sitting there like still paper targets if they are out of AA missles/guns etc. Taking them out while they try to run for cover or them shooting back if situation is right makes it exciting

[Brendon 0]

Infantry still shoots at Helicopters and Airplanes in ArmA 1. Do you know what they could do? At 3000 meters in the air, an untrained guerilla could shoot my helicopter down with an AK47 in ArmA 1.

You can guess why they don't do that anymore now.

[vasmkd 12]

Exactly why i have said choppers must be within close range ,hovering or flying slow and not heavily armoured like ka-52 etc for AI to aim at.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

And yet most aircraft were brought down with small arms fire in Vietnam, weren't they?

The peasant farmer in "Air America" shooting down a cargo transport plane with one shot from a bolt-action rifle was a sort of humorous commentary on this, I think.

Helicopters have to deal with something called "F.O.D." (foreign-object damage, I think). Loose pieces of metal bouncing around under the skin of a helo are not a good thing.

ArmA2 is supposed to have ballistic penetration, but so far I haven't seen a lot of it in the demo. The sheetmetal of a helo shouldn't be that hard to puncture.

And yes, the U.S. Army Ranger manual from the 70's, I think it was, taught whole squads to fire 1 football field in front of a speeding helo and 2 football fields in front of a speeding jet, if I remember correctly.

What seems a little unrealistic to me is when A.I. tanks bring down helos with their coaxial, like they're AA platforms.

[frederf 0]

FOD is a great danger for any turbine jet engine as the turbines are spinning at incredible speeds and are quite fragile.

3, plane way FAR to our RIGHT.

3, out of ammo.

Tanks are very dangerous to helicopters, main gun and coaxial alike. It's not unrealistic at all.

[Poodle 10]

Small arms fire is effective even against gunships it seems:

"The U.S. Army's only disastrous operation in Gulf War II (at least the only one we know about) took place on March 24, when 33 Apache helicopters were ordered to move out ahead of the 3rd Infantry Division and to attack an Iraqi Republican Guard regiment in the suburbs of Karbala. Meeting heavy fire from small arms and shoulder-mounted rocket-propelled grenades, the Apaches flew back to base, 30 of them shot up, several disablingly so. One helicopter was shot down in the encounter, and its two crewmen were taken prisoner."

http://www.slate.com/id/2081906/

http://www.jjraymond.com/political/articles/helicopters112004.html

[Redfield-77 10]

In ARMA 2 Manhattan mission A hunter killed one of my team while flying in Starforce 21.

The AI do shoot at helicopters.

We were about to land Near Olgiechs town when I heard and saw a few rounds hit the side of the helicopter. Still about 200 feet alt. Next thing I know...

Mission over one of the team has been killed.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Meeting heavy fire from small arms and shoulder-mounted rocket-propelled grenades, the Apaches flew back to base, 30 of them shot up, several disablingly so. One helicopter was shot down in the encounter, and its two crewmen were taken prisoner."

http://www.slate.com/id/2081906/

http://www.jjraymond.com/political/articles/helicopters112004.html

I remember that story. The whole thing screamed and still screams "B.S.!" to me. 33 Apaches all scurrying home with their tails between their legs when they could have engaged ANYTHING from distance? Sounds like something Hollywood wrote. I don't care what anyone says. I don't believe it really happened unless it was MEANT to "happen".

[Beagle 684]

Most military helicopters are armoured against rifle fire, I think. Shooting at a moving one would be an excercise in futility, and may only serve to piss off the heavily armed crews.

Not a single Helicopters on this Planet is truely armoured. It's only parts of the Whole that are designed in a way that a single hit will not bring it down immediately.

Just for Example...the side windows of the Hind are just Plexiglas, as are all Windows of all other Helicopter in game. Helicopter are not MBTs. They are very sophisticated and hence vulnerable machines.

[Poodle 10]

I remember that story. The whole thing screamed and still screams "B.S.!" to me. 33 Apaches all scurrying home with their tails between their legs when they could have engaged ANYTHING from distance? Sounds like something Hollywood wrote. I don't care what anyone says. I don't believe it really happened unless it was MEANT to "happen".

Better believe it man, Here is a detailed report of the incident.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2004/onpoint/ch-4.htm

In the middle of the document from Army Attack Aviation The 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment and 101st Attack Aviation onwards. Pretty revealing about the Apaches weaknesses:

"In the Apache, one of the two crewmen flies wearing helmet-mounted night vision goggles to see things thermals do not, including, for example, wires and tracers. The second crewman flies with thermals and the 30mm chain gun slaved to his head-up display. When the sky "lit" up with tracers, the aviator with goggles could see them, but the aviator who had immediate control of the gun could not. Therefore, to add to their problems, one crewman had to talk the other on to the source of fire to suppress it."

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

And that never came up as an issue in the first Gulf War or in training since?

Yeah, I picture 33 Apaches all fuster-clucked together. Why wouldn't they be spread out over a huge distance with interlocking fields of fire? Seems unlikely that smalls arms could have turned them all back.

The whole story is an aberration incongruous with the rest of what happened in those opening days.

[Poodle 10]

They did spread out pretty wide there, still they got owned.

[iM]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2004/onpoint/fig97fc-lg.jpg[/img]>100kb

Edited July 16, 2009 by Placebo

[aussieterry84 10]

One time in Domination in ArmA II I was lone taking back a local town from enemy ruskies who had just moved back in anyway just as i completed clearing the town out a enemy Mi-8 flew over the town and just hovered, so i searched all the russian bodies for something tasty to take it out with, best i could find was a VSS on a spetz nats, so i knicked it and fired a whole mag at the tail rotor and brought the bugger down =).

then as i hopped ready to steal the safely landed Mi-8 it spawned away from me while i was in teh cockpit :(.

was pretty neat though taking it down :D

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Yeah, I had to snipe the pilot of a Hind with a VSS in Bad Company in order to complete one chapter. The first time I played through the story I got smeared over and over again, throwing every else I had at it and running, driving and swimming when that didn't work.

So what would you say about this story? The sort of targets attacking them weren't the kind that showed up well on radar? They had too much on their plate?

[Ludovico Technique 0]

Better believe it man, Here is a detailed report of the incident.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2004/onpoint/ch-4.htm

In the middle of the document from Army Attack Aviation The 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment and 101st Attack Aviation onwards. Pretty revealing about the Apaches weaknesses:

"In the Apache, one of the two crewmen flies wearing helmet-mounted night vision goggles to see things thermals do not, including, for example, wires and tracers. The second crewman flies with thermals and the 30mm chain gun slaved to his head-up display. When the sky "lit" up with tracers, the aviator with goggles could see them, but the aviator who had immediate control of the gun could not. Therefore, to add to their problems, one crewman had to talk the other on to the source of fire to suppress it."

Really interesting read, cheers for the linkage.

Regarding the use of small arms against helicopters, put simply- it works. It's battle proven and should occur in the game. However I think it ought to depend on unit ammunition levels. Unless you are sitting on or near a big stack of extra mags it's probably not a good idea to fire off a couple hundred rifle rounds into the sky.