Guard way points. what's it good for?

[topeira 10]

Well, i just read about the "guard" WPs in wiki and tested them a bit.

now if i understand it currectly they function this way, and currect me if im wrong:

all the units that have a GUARD WP will go to the nearest GUARDED BY trigger with priorities to the earlier made triggers so at any given time every trigger should be populated by AIs that have a GUARD WP.

am i right this far?

first i wanna ask - does the size of the trigger (the X and Y lengths) have any affect on anything?

i was wondering what's the cooler uses for this feature?

since i just know became aware of that WP\trigger type im not sure what's the more creative uses for this.

Can u give examples on fun uses for the GUARD function so it'll get me started on experimenting with them?

Edited June 23, 2009 by topeira

[beita 10]

Well, in my opinion, the best feature of the Guard waypoint is the fact that the AI will actively seek and destroy ANY known enemies spotted by other groups.

So, you can have AI on sentry duty spotting targets, and other AI on guard duty who will move out to destroy the targets. Makes for a very active and aggressive AI that will hunt you down.

[topeira 10]

wait... so if unit A is doing "guard" and unit B is completely un-related to A (aside for being on the same side of the war) and doing any type of way-point and unit B is spotting an enemy than unit A will know about if and come to fight no matter where it is on the map?

even if unit A is really far away from unit B and the enemy that B spotted?

[monty67t 0]

Guard - This waypoint works in conjunction with the 'Guarded by' trigger type, see that topic above for more details. The group will move to the waypoint's location, then wait for a point to require guarding. A guard point or object is only considered guarded if a group has been set to guard it through a Guard waypoint (any other friendly forces in the area are not considered). If there are several guard triggers, the group will move to the first placed (highest priority), unguarded trigger (or it's linked object). Once at a guard point, the group will continue to check if any higher priority guard point requires guarding, or for any enemies to engage. A group can be made to stop guarding using the setCurrentWaypoint command or a Switch trigger. Besides guarding areas marked by "Guarded by" triggers, guarding groups are also ordered to destroy any enemy units which are known to any group of the same side. See the Guarded by <side> trigger description for more details.

That's from the Biki which you can find here.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_Mission_Editor#Waypoints_Mode_.28F4.29

Basically any unit given a guard waypoint will go anywhere on the island and try to seek and destroy units that have been seen by any other unit on their side.

[-X- Charlie 0]

Guard way points. what's it good for?

Absolutely nothin', say it again now y'all!

Sorry. :o

[topeira 10]

@ charlie - he he. when i posted this thread i always had that song ringing in my mind. it was the reason for the name :)

@monty67t - thanks for the last line. i have read wiki. i know what it says there but wasnt sure i understood.

so what is the difference between unit's behavior if the reach a MOVE, GUARD or SENTRY WPs? is GUARD different because it is the only WP that make the unit get "info" on enemies from other groups?

please dont refer me to wiki again :) i read that. still dont understand the DIFFERENCES between the way points.

if a unit is meant to move to a MOVE WP or a SENTRY WP, than what is the difference between the two in how the AI engages or percieves the battlefield?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Move - The group will move to this point or object...

Sentry - The group will move to the waypoint and hold position until the group knows enough about an enemy unit to identify which side that belongs to, and that they are capable of attacking. At that point, the group will proceed to their next waypoint.

Guard - This waypoint works in conjunction with the 'Guarded by' trigger type, see that topic above for more details. The group will move to the waypoint's location, then wait for a point to require guarding. A guard point or object is only considered guarded if a group has been set to guard it through a Guard waypoint (any other friendly forces in the area are not considered). If there are several guard triggers, the group will move to the first placed (highest priority), unguarded trigger (or it's linked object). Once at a guard point, the group will continue to check if any higher priority guard point requires guarding, or for any enemies to engage. A group can be made to stop guarding using the setCurrentWaypoint command or a Switch trigger. Besides guarding areas marked by "Guarded by" triggers, guarding groups are also ordered to destroy any enemy units which are known to any group of the same side. See the Guarded by <side> trigger description for more details.

[Cloughy 0]

Well, in my opinion, the best feature of the Guard waypoint is the fact that the AI will actively seek and destroy ANY known enemies spotted by other groups.

So, you can have AI on sentry duty spotting targets, and other AI on guard duty who will move out to destroy the targets. Makes for a very active and aggressive AI that will hunt you down.

This is how i have always used the Guard Waypoint. Very effective. I remember in the OFP days, i had a sniper on guard on a coop mission. Usually at the start i would find him and kill him. But the last time we played the particular mission, I couldnt find him, so carried on with the mission. Finally 2 hours later after the final objective, we were in a captured Ural heading for the extraction, and i lost 3 chaps to this one commie sniper. He had followed/hunted us down all the mission, until he caught up with us.

What i have noticed though, is they only head to last known contact. So if you shoot and scoot, then they may never catch up with you.

Cheers

GC

[rübe 127]

If I am not mistaken, this works as follows:

1. Setup a trigger `guarded by` (east/at an east base/outpost)
   
2. Create group1 and give them a waypoint, guard, at this base/outpost
   
3. Create a second group, somewhere aside/hidden, too with a guard-waypoint, but not pointed/located at the `guarded by`-trigger. (aside somwhere as the group is)
   

What happens now is this:

• The `guarded by`-trigger is satisfied by group1 which is guarding this place.
  
• group2 waits aside somewhere and does not much.
  
• group1 dies or is weakened that much, that the `guarded by`-trigger is no more satisfied and thus this place is no longer regarded as guarded by any group.
  
• Thus group2 now `sees` the trigger as `free/unsatisfied` and moves out to guard the `guarded by`-trigger.
  

You can use more `guarded by`-triggers, where the first ones put are of higher priority. Setup two such triggers with 3 groups, two guarding and one as a reserve. Watch group3 move out to the trigger, where the group guarding it dyied earlier.

Thus this mechanism is very handy to simulate reinforcements quite easily. Also try to setup a group aside/hidden somewhere and give them the `support`-waypoint (this group should have something like a medic or a ammo-truck, ...). This group will rest inactive, until it is called by any other group requesting support. Works like a charm too.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Ah, didn't know that "Guard" Groups without "Guard" Triggers to defend will roam the whole island.

So basically if I want to create a SpecOps missions where the player gets hunted by specifically designated "Response Team" if seen by any enemy patrol even just for a moment, I can set the "Response Team" to Guard Waypoint and they will come get me?

EDIT: Just tested. This is really nice, since until now I always had a large trigger over the area with a "If detected by OPFOR" and a "Group domove" statement to chase my guys around. Now I can do the same just by setting a waypoint type.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Helmut_AUT

[topeira 10]

ok, first - thanks a lot for replaying.

second - i read the wikis. i dont need quotes from there calGustafa, but thanks for posting, just in a case i HAVENT read. but i did :)

also, i know how to use the triggers and guard positions. and now i also read that guard squads are in touch with other units and they hunt the enemy down if their teammates out of the specific guarding squad are seeing enemies.

what i dont understand yet is this -

u say that if i set a "guarded-by trigger" and make squads that have a guard WP than that squad will go to the "guarded-by trigger" if it isnt satisfied (guarded). this i know already.

what i dont know is:

1) will the squad that is guarding the "guarded-by trigger" (its located on the trigger or close by) leave that trigger to engage and hunt down enemies or will they stay near the "guarded-by trigger"?

2) if a squad is on it's way to guard a trigger that need guarding and the trigger is not being guarded ATM (not satisfied) than will that squad engage enemies on the way to the trigger and only afterwards go to the trigger OR will the priority be to first go to the "guarded-by trigger" and only then engage enemies?

3) if a "guarded-by trigger" is being guarded by another squad, but there is a squad with a guard WP far away, will that squad attack enemies everywhere on the map or remain inactive until the "guarded-by trigger" is not guarded anymore and require reinforcement?

4) does the size of the "guarded-by trigger" matters? if i set it to be 400X400 or 20X20, is there a difference to how the AI behaves?

[topeira 10]

buddabim buddabump.... :P

[JonasRC 10]

Test it. Create a group with guard wp and make one of the units(not the leader) in the group as player and try for yourself.

Try being a civilian and make OPFOR attack BLUFOR guarding somewhere, then add two BLUFOR groups somewhere close by but hidden and see them reinforce.

The size of the trigger may be important as in its this area that is guarded and any enemy units spotted will be engaged. But I'm not sure yet.

Im gonna try this out, I usually only use move/cycle waypoints and scripts.

[topeira 10]

i wonder if i set the trigger to be bigger if the guarding squad will try to spread more into that area or if it's smaller than the quarding squad will be tighter cuz the area is tighter...

or maybe the size of the trigger is what defines if an enemy is attaching the trigger or not, like if the enemy is within the trigger THEN the guarding squads will engage it and reinforce it...

it can be many different things and testing them and getting to conclusions myself might lead to inconclusive results. i wonder if someone knows this for sure.

still gonna test this though :P

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Trigger size - at least in A1 - had nothing to do with guard behaviour. It's only the center position of the trigger that counts.

[starstreams 0]

In addition to setting the Type: Guarded By in the Trigger, dose the On Activation need to be set accordingly, or can that be left at default, (None)? (since the Type: Guarded By has already been set to the guard side). And should the Repeat mode be active?

EDIT:

Ok, I just read that Guarded by Triggers do not activate, so please disregard the first question. My apologies. But is the Repeat mode required?

I'm guessing not as I'm thinking that would be a function of the activation. So just adding the Type setting of the trigger is ok for this to work?

Edited August 11, 2009 by starstreams

[fabrizio_t 58]

Beware, current implementation of Guard waypoint has at least one big shortcoming:

(units with GUARD waypoint) react over any distance, even if they are not capable of damaging the detected object

So in short: never give to ordinary infantry any GUARD waypoints: if you do that then those units will move to engage tanks, apc, helicopter, whatever detected.

Also a single soldier with a GUARD waypoint will move to engage any numer of enemies of whatever kind.

---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 AM ----------

i wonder if i set the trigger to be bigger if the guarding squad will try to spread more into that area or if it's smaller than the quarding squad will be tighter cuz the area is tighter...

or maybe the size of the trigger is what defines if an enemy is attaching the trigger or not, like if the enemy is within the trigger THEN the guarding squads will engage it and reinforce it...

it can be many different things and testing them and getting to conclusions myself might lead to inconclusive results. i wonder if someone knows this for sure.

still gonna test this though :P

Trigger size does not matter for guarded by triggers.

The trigger's centre point will define a point to be guarded

Ok, I just read that Guarded by Triggers do not activate, so please disregard the first question. My apologies. But is the Repeat mode required?

No. Guarded by triggers do not work like any ordinary triggers, they simply define positions to be guarded.

Edited August 11, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[nominesine 0]

The Guarded by trigger behaves more like a marker than a trigger, unfortunately. It would be nice if they could be activated at certain times within the mission and then unactivated again. Unfortunately you still cannot do that without doMoves and markers.

Plan carefully before you place any guarded by triggers on the map. The AI will protect the trigger you placed first more fiercly than the second and third. They consider the first placed guard trigger to be of higher priority.

[Proud Gamer 0]

So exactly how many units makes the "Guarded by" trigger satisfied? Is it something like one squad no matter how many units in that squad or a number of units or what?

Regards,

-PG-

[kiptanoi 10]

I was trying this today.

I created a squad with me in it, not as leader.

Created a second squad with playable player in.

The second squad was standing in a village.

Then I make some attacking oppfor squads to attack that village.

My own squad was standing far away from the second squad.

Then I created i trigger with this:

Activation: Game Logic

Type: Guard by BLUFOR

Then I draw a groupline from that trigger to my squadleader that stand a bit from it.

and try it out to see what happend.

The resault was this:

My squad did not get any order to go and help out, instead the game created some support squad that my second squad in that village did get when only 2 of them where left alive and wounded. Pretty cool =)