realistic carnage

[guiltyspark 10]

I know this has probly been brought up before

But I find it alot less immersive when playing this game to find painted red bodies on the ground after dropping a 1000 pound bomb on a squad. There would either be nothing left , or tiny bits and peices

There is tasteful violence , and there is rediculous gears of war violence.

I have not once seen a developer show how terrifying the effects of modern weapon systems are on a human being.

The small arms simulation is almost JUST right as far as realism goes , but realistically shots to the head and extremities with high caliber rounds are alot more brutal than one would think. Most modern sniper rifles will leave what is essentially the head as a mushed up peice of hamburger with shattered bone mixed in. High caliber machine guns will tear the human body apart , taking limbs in the process. (if you have seen the new john rambo movie , it is exaggerated in some parts , but most of it is pretty close to reality)

Grenades will rarely take off limbs unless you are right on top of one , it is more of a shotgun effect with modern hand grenades than an explosive one. so the simulation in this game for that is spot on.

But things like the cannons on armored vehicles will completely tear apart the human body instantly. If you have seen gun cam footage from helicopters you would have witnessed how the body just blows apart from the 30mm ammunition.

Explosives are not done properly in this game at all and its kinda dissapointing. mortars will blow off peoples limbs , artillery will blow people apart , and bombs will leave almost nothing left.

I really hope either modders or bohemia starts researching to get this part of the game right , because alot of people who play these type of games dont understand how brutally violent and shocking war really is. And i have yet to see a game show what our modern equipment can do to a person.

[Radioactive 10]

If they did this they would probably also have to introduce body physics to the game, how would you like to see someone get shot with a sniper rifle in the leg, and his leg gets torn off, but he appears to be floating on air cause they only have so many unique death animations. It would also be more computer intensive because of body physics simulation, especially large amounts of clustered enemies being blown up by a single bomb, I think you can imagine how low the frame rate would be then. Theres also the problems with rating standards and what some countries would think of this, for example, Germany, they are extremely strict about that kind of maturity. If you remembered Crysis, when someone tried to make a dismemberment mod, it got removed from all its hosted websites and the person was fined, because Crysis was made by a German game developer. Other games like the Man hunt series also had a tough time with the government as well, due to extreme realistic gore and violence.

[max power 21]

LOL. Tearing people into pieces tastefully. I think that will be a hard sell.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

From a tactical standpoint, the fact that they die is sufficient. Having the kind of gore you describe only causes stupid people to act more stupid. It attracts stupid people for the wrong reasons.

Trust me, you'd be fed up with the new guy who shoots a man to pieces for the fun of if, while you are trying to conserve ammunition on a stealthy approach.

Not only do I vote no, I vote HELL NO! :)

[diveplane 0]

I know this has probly been brought up before

But I find it alot less immersive when playing this game to find painted red bodies on the ground after dropping a 1000 pound bomb on a squad. There would either be nothing left , or tiny bits and peices

There is tasteful violence , and there is rediculous gears of war violence.

I have not once seen a developer show how terrifying the effects of modern weapon systems are on a human being.

The small arms simulation is almost JUST right as far as realism goes , but realistically shots to the head and extremities with high caliber rounds are alot more brutal than one would think. Most modern sniper rifles will leave what is essentially the head as a mushed up peice of hamburger with shattered bone mixed in. High caliber machine guns will tear the human body apart , taking limbs in the process. (if you have seen the new john rambo movie , it is exaggerated in some parts , but most of it is pretty close to reality)

Grenades will rarely take off limbs unless you are right on top of one , it is more of a shotgun effect with modern hand grenades than an explosive one. so the simulation in this game for that is spot on.

But things like the cannons on armored vehicles will completely tear apart the human body instantly. If you have seen gun cam footage from helicopters you would have witnessed how the body just blows apart from the 30mm ammunition.

Explosives are not done properly in this game at all and its kinda dissapointing. mortars will blow off peoples limbs , artillery will blow people apart , and bombs will leave almost nothing left.

I really hope either modders or bohemia starts researching to get this part of the game right , because alot of people who play these type of games dont understand how brutally violent and shocking war really is. And i have yet to see a game show what our modern equipment can do to a person.

save that crap for the doom games.

[no use for a name 0]

I wouldn't mind seeing a little more 'gore', or gibs, whatever...but right now since they use scripted animations there's no way to do it. They'll need ragdoll or similar to fully model it.

As for kids acting stupid, that's why you find a server with mature players...there's plenty of them out there. You join an open pub server and of course you're going to get idiots playing lol

Edited June 24, 2009 by No Use For A Name

[arma2mods 10]

Theres been alot mods in previous OFP/arma games (ECP/) creating extrernal gore effects such of deleting whole human model and repleshing some animated objects of red meats blowing all around . I am for realistic carnal mode even little bit extended one but it shouldnt been central part of the game like in Postal, MH or SoF1/2 which I liked more due unrealistic approach kill people just to see how their bowels burst out from their abdomens.

[stilton 0]

After reading the original post [and having not played the game] i was thinking

"hmpf, shame they are still using the same animation system, and no rag doll - after death - effects..

..then i read:

From a tactical standpoint, the fact that they die is sufficient. Having the kind of gore you describe only causes stupid people to act more stupid. It attracts stupid people for the wrong reasons.

Trust me, you'd be fed up with the new guy who shoots a man to pieces for the fun of if, while you are trying to conserve ammunition on a stealthy approach.

Not only do I vote no, I vote HELL NO! :)

- made me chuckle, funny because its true.. You can hear them laughing now

"Look how his leg twitches when i shoot it! - LOLOLOLOL"

[Murphe 0]

I agree with the majority here. I don't think the game needs more 'gore'. Although I do think that there shouldn't be anything left if you drop a 1000 lb bomb on someone, just to stop bodies flying into the sky. Same should be done with light vehicles.

I read a small article about a group of American students in New York how ran an experiment with 2600 gamers and told them rate games on immersion, enjoyment and need satisfaction. They then did the experiment again with a gore reduced version of the same games and showed it didn't make any difference, while many said it detracted from their experiance.

So it'll be interesting how this effects OFP: DR.

[trickster1982 10]

i dont think theres much need for it to be honest,would the gore be as an anti-war statement or just to please the drooling nutjobs who want to see what a high powered rifle or HE round does to someone for kicks?Brothers in arms hells highway went down that route with slow mo close-ups of peoples heads coming apart when sniped or limbs flying off in explosions & the game would have been fine without it to be fair!the other brothers in arms games still had gore which worked well without glorifying it,which i guess would work better in arma 2 than turning it into an all out splatter fest!

[Alex72 1]

Completly stupid for a game like this. As they all mentioned already you kill and move on. Its about getting objectives done and not having a gore fest ala DOOM.

That is reserved for those mindless games.

[guiltyspark 10]

Completly stupid for a game like this. As they all mentioned already you kill and move on. Its about getting objectives done and not having a gore fest ala DOOM.

That is reserved for those mindless games.

I think you are confused , The game is about being a realistic and immersive depiction of modern combat. Not an airsoft simulator where everyone has to be ultra conservitive with features to keep fans of other games away.

if you shoot somebody with a 50 caliber machine gun they are not going to fall over like they tripped on a rock and fell on a tomato , they are going to tear apart and its going to be shocking to watch.

Body's do not lay on the ground painted red after a bomb goes off , they blow into chared peices.

Its the sad truth of war. A truth that is not represented in this game that should be.

If you have seen actual imagery of the things im talking about you would understand 100% what im saying and why it needs to be in the game.

Having this feature wouldnt "ruin" arma for its core fans , and it wouldnt lure the oh so hated "noobs" to your precious game either. It would only enhance the fact that you are indeed in a WAR.

Like i said earlier , the small arms simulation is spot on in arma 2. So its not like blood is going to pour out of people like postal when you shoot them.

This only caters to the heavy weapons that do indeed rip people apart.

[mr_centipede 31]

I vote no too... Dont need it. Though better wound texture might be more appropriate. Something ala ghostrecon or R6:Rogue Spear, where the wound is positional... just a blood texture painted on the body.

On a side note, when the R6 series goes to to ravenshield and have ragdoll, the wound texture is no longer there... maybe the texture cannot be put on ragdoll model because of the dynamic properties of ragdoll?

Thats my 2cents worth

[guiltyspark 10]

I vote no too... Dont need it. Though better wound texture might be more appropriate. Something ala ghostrecon or R6:Rogue Spear, where the wound is positional... just a blood texture painted on the body.

On a side note, when the R6 series goes to to ravenshield and have ragdoll, the wound texture is no longer there... maybe the texture cannot be put on ragdoll model because of the dynamic properties of ragdoll?

Thats my 2cents worth

where is the argument against it in this post?

I just see "settling for less"

[Hyp3rdyn3 10]

Brothers in arms hells highway went down that route with slow mo close-ups of peoples heads coming apart when sniped or limbs flying off in explosions & the game would have been fine without it to be fair!

I lost all respect for them when they decided to glorify killing by using slo-mo cinematics. They kept banging on about historical authenticity yet they think it's ok, normal even, to visually admire someone being torn apart in the midst of battle, like some sort of twisted gore perverted serial killer. I would think even people that way inclined, in such a situation, would be more interested in trying to keep their head down and in one piece than jerking off to the demise of a fellow human being. Have some freaking respect.

I'm all in favor of gore and dismemberment in a war sim like Arma2, as long as it's as authentic as possible and restrained, not glorified or exaggerated.

[dunedain 48]

I'm all in favor of gore and dismemberment in a war sim like Arma2, as long as it's as authentic as possible and restrained, not glorified or exaggerated.

I totally agree with that, some gore effect can add much more immersion, look Red Orchestra, but too much would be disturbing i don't like exagerated gore like in Sof which was a great game however.

But most important i want to see localized wounds on bodies, the current system reminds me Quake2 not a war sim..

Edited June 26, 2009 by dunedain

[trooper117 10]

I've seen the real effects of modern munitions on people.. not sure I need to see it here when I'm just playing a game for fun.. but that's just me.

[OrLoK 20]

Hello there

I'm all for having an option to turn on/off realistic wounding effects as long as they have a purpose, without going for the Shock Value to appeal to the nutters out there.

It would be especially useful if the medic role could be enhanced as in the ACE Mod, with regards to treating and evac of wounded.

Remember that injuries are not always visible and don't always involve alot of "gore". (although many do)

I dont need/want to see all the grizzley effects in full detail, rather an impression of what has happened.

Eg If my squad comes to a town and discovers a town with dead from small arms fire it should look and feel different than if the casualties had been caused by incoming arty for eg.

This is a very subjective issue though and whatever was/is decided, it should be turn on and offable.

Rgds

LoK

[guiltyspark 10]

I totally agree with that, some gore effect can add much more immersion, look Red Orchestra, but too much would be disturbing i don't like exagerated gore like in Sof which was a great game however.

But most important i want to see localized wounds on bodies, the current system reminds me Quake2 not a war sim..

exactly , red orchestra is a fine example

Im not talking over the top gore where you shoot somebody with an m16 and a spurt of blood explodes out of their chest and they fly backwards

[Alex72 1]

I think you are confused

If its gore you want - make an addon and have fun. No one is stopping you if thats what you want. We mature simmers dont need to stop and go "wow look he doesnt have any arms huh huh huh". Take the target down and move on.

What are you supposed to achieve with dismemebered bodies? If its realism your after "cause thats what happens in real life" then i still dont get it as it doesnt add anything gameplay wise. Its a game so it wont make you sick or shocked wich real life would. Thats why i miss the point other than childish laughing while an arm goes off etc. Thats not how I play or anyone i know when it comes to ARMA.

Im not a squeemish person and i enjoy other games with a lot of bang and blood. but i just fail to see what it adds in a realistic combat sim. Like i said - eye candy that doesnt do anything for the gameplay isnt much use to me. Note the "me" in that scentense. There are far more important things that could be implemented that isnt at this point.

But If you want it - start making a mod and have fun. Thats why ARMA is so great isnt it - you can do what the hell you want with it.

Alex

[nodunit 397]

The statement "we mature simmers" is a bit elitest don't you think? If more realistic representation of violence is what they like then fine, that is their business but to ridicule them simply for it, especially since you most likely would not see it unless you downloaded it.

Furthermore Flashpoint had a few mods that brought more violence later adapted into total conversions such as ECP, FFUR and Y2K3.

The amount was optional and client based so people could have different setups. Are you calling yourself more 'mature' then those that used it?

[nomdeplume 0]

I think more realism wouldn't hurt. In particular, there is a tactical issue with respect to the effects of explosives: blowing people up should not only leave no person behind, but also no equipment.

At the moment you can use satchel charges to ambush an enemy squad, and then go and salvage their useful items (AT weapons, machine guns, grenades, etc.). That's very unrealistic IMHO.

I'd be happy with the current system augmented by "remove the unit altogether if the attack was devastating enough". No need for limbs to fly around, just have it disappear while it's obscured by the explosion and smoke/dust. This would also help with the comical "corpse flying hundreds of meters through the air" thing.

[RedRage 0]

Sort out the bodies floating in mid air and I'll be happy. Bodies flying 500 ft into the air kills the immersion as well.

[nodunit 397]

Yes if they simply dissapeared from a big enough explosion that would be great. I remember in OFP during apache tests between Franze and I the M230 was around the right power but due to the engine the infantry would sometimes be sent into orbit.

It was quite amusing. Then I tried the ECP mod and eh...well lets just say there weren't any infantry left but things would get messy, though more amusing is that sometimes certain parts would get stuck spinning in air so if you drive a vehicle into it you would either flip or break something.

[mr burns 131]

Mr Burns saultes ye olde gore in OFP discussion

There´s no possibility for SOF like ghoul tech model´s in this engine - the same goes for ragdoll. Get used to it.

PS: Me wants the [me] Tag back