Arma 2 - Female Characters?

[Lauxman 10]

To adequately express my dismay at many of the replies to this topic you would need a face the size of a small sun to hit a palm about as big as Jupiter....

The simulator simulates combat, not supply or logistic units. When I place a "rifleman" it should not be a woman. Nobody wants a simulator that simulates transportation or logistics or ordinance corps. If you guys want female personnel, there are plenty of tools out there to make or request your own addons, but you shouldn't be surprised when female combatants are not anywhere near or even on the priority lists of addon makers and BI.

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

im thinking the real concern would be the after effect of killing a women in the battlefield. mentally it might be disturbing to some. An could cause some type of break down same as killing a child if the situation came down to it. I think these are the things that men want to keep away from the frontline's as much as possible. Dont think its the she can't do this or that as good as he BS. But this is just a thought so i dunno.

[An Fiach 10]

To adequately express my dismay at many of the replies to this topic you would need a face the size of a small sun to hit a palm about as big as Jupiter.

Whether female soldiers are any good or not is absolutely beside the point. Whether they should be fighting in wars is also besides the point. The reality is that pretty much every military in the world includes women. Do they serve in the front line? Usually not. But of course one could point out that trucks are rarely used at the front line either but they still feature in the game.

Given that the game is often not simply a case of front line units versus front line units the inclusion of female soldiers makes perfect sense. Engineer and logistics units often include women and these are often very close to the front line, close enough that they often see combat as the hundreds of women wounded and dozens killed from the US military in Iraq demonstrates. There are even women who have won Bronze Star and Silver Star medals for combat in that war. Women may also be combat pilots in the USAF.

And that's just talking about the USA which is relatively civilised, guerillas, even hardline Islamic ones, have no qualms at all about women dying for the cause, in fact often like the men can't exactly stop them. Chechen women featured heavily in the groups that attacked the Nord Ost theatre in Moscow and the Beslan school.

The argument that women shouldn't be in a military simulator is asinine, women are well represented in almost every military field barring front line infantry and special forces units. A simulator ought to represent that.

Express away, this thread is all about feelings.

[Ludovico Technique 0]

The simulator simulates combat, not supply or logistic units. When I place a "rifleman" it should not be a woman. Nobody wants a simulator that simulates transportation or logistics or ordinance corps. If you guys want female personnel, there are plenty of tools out there to make or request your own addons, but you shouldn't be surprised when female combatants are not anywhere near or even on the priority lists of addon makers and BI.

By that rationale there's no reason that fuel and ammo trucks ought to appear in the game either, as these are not used in combat. You don't see the 101st Fuel and Repair Truck Brigade spearheading assaults. Anywhere close enough to the front line to see soft skinned utility vehicles like supply trucks in use is close enough to see female soldiers, at least for the US military, and female insurgents and pilots etc could pop up anywhere. Also any game that simulates modern warfare ought to at least attempt to provide the ability to simulate the kind of no-front-line style common to western wars since the first Gulf War. These days just being a non combatant is no guarantee that you won't be in danger during a tour of duty.

I agree though that it shouldn't be a case of any given soldier you place on the map having a chance to be a woman.

Seems like this sort of thing would have been much easier to mod into the game if BIS had made the female civilians able to fight, as then the animations would be there. The idea of a bodged together female character essentially just having a (hopefully at least scaled down) male body seems off. They did similar in Oblivion and it just looked a little odd. :P

Edited December 9, 2009 by Ludovico Technique

[Tankbuster 1746]

When we have a kitchen addon, then we can have a woman addon. :D

[Colt45_GTO 10]

By that rationale there's no reason that fuel and ammo trucks ought to appear in the game either, as these are not used in combat. You don't see the 101st Fuel and Repair Truck Brigade spearheading assaults. Anywhere close enough to the front line to see soft skinned utility vehicles like supply trucks in use is close enough to see female soldiers, at least for the US military, and female insurgents and pilots etc could pop up anywhere. Also any game that simulates modern warfare ought to at least attempt to provide the ability to simulate the kind of no-front-line style common to western wars since the first Gulf War. These days just being a non combatant is no guarantee that you won't be in danger during a tour of duty.

I agree though that it shouldn't be a case of any given soldier you place on the map having a chance to be a woman.

Seems like this sort of thing would have been much easier to mod into the game if BIS had made the female civilians able to fight, as then the animations would be there. The idea of a bodged together female character essentially just having a (hopefully at least scaled down) male body seems off. They did similar in Oblivion and it just looked a little odd. :P

dont feed the troll.

[An Fiach 10]

When we have a kitchen addon, then we can have a woman addon. :D

No way, you thik the male voice acting is bad, wait till they add nagging :butbut:

[Colt45_GTO 10]

Ludo has valid points. folk say women are not allowed on the frontlines yet i can throw a link to a site dedicated to fem soldiers.

no military would send soft sided trucks onto the frontlines. yet supply trucks and salvage trucks roam freely around the map, even behind enemy lines.

so why shouldn't female soldiers be implicated?

people argue the fact about facts of RL military vs the sim, yet the sim has many flaws that wouldn't be had in RL military.

sorry anfiach cant read your reply. nor do i wish too.

[An Fiach 10]

By that rationale there's no reason that fuel and ammo trucks ought to appear in the game either, as these are not used in combat. You don't see the 101st Fuel and Repair Truck Brigade spearheading assaults. Anywhere close enough to the front line to see soft skinned utility vehicles like supply trucks in use is close enough to see female soldiers, at least for the US military, and female insurgents and pilots etc could pop up anywhere. Also any game that simulates modern warfare ought to at least attempt to provide the ability to simulate the kind of no-front-line style common to western wars since the first Gulf War. These days just being a non combatant is no guarantee that you won't be in danger during a tour of duty.

I agree though that it shouldn't be a case of any given soldier you place on the map having a chance to be a woman.

Seems like this sort of thing would have been much easier to mod into the game if BIS had made the female civilians able to fight, as then the animations would be there. The idea of a bodged together female character essentially just having a (hopefully at least scaled down) male body seems off. They did similar in Oblivion and it just looked a little odd. :P

You are quite right, none of those things are necessary in this game, you can just throw out a repair pad or fly in a fuel blivet and infantry generally do their own vehicle maintenance, though they DO use utility trucks a lot. There also aren't field kitchens, laundry facilities or MWR centers. I mean, what kind of sim doesn't provide a makeshift night club for logistics personnel to party down in while combat soldiers are doing patrols and dying?

I think the reason most of those things are in game is because they were already made for VBS and BIS thought people might want to have something rather than magic pads. No extra development time needed.

I agree with you about the female civilians, that was just another example of poor workmanship on the part of the developers and if it had been done properly there would be a mod and this discussion wouldn't even be taking place.

---------- Post added at 07:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 AM ----------

Ludo has valid points. folk say women are not allowed on the frontlines yet i can throw a link to a site dedicated to fem soldiers.

no military would send soft sided trucks onto the frontlines. yet supply trucks and salvage trucks roam freely around the map, even behind enemy lines.

so why shouldn't female soldiers be implicated?

people argue the fact about facts of RL military vs the sim, yet the sim has many flaws that wouldn't be had in RL military.

sorry anfiach cant read your reply. nor do i wish too.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. A site dedicated to female soldiers doesn't prove anything other than someone wants to honor the women that serve in the military. I think it is rather insulting though because the females you usually hear about, their words and deeds are often so ridiculously inflated it is an insult to the heroic women that do silently serve with distinction every day. Funny how the fem lib activists will celebrate the tiniest achievement by a woman and by doing so they show that they had no faith in women's ability to do things in the first place.

Militaries use all kinds of vehicles in all kinds of combat environments, stop trying to comment on the military since you are obviously clueless in that regard. Facts trump opinions any day. So, your argument is because the sim falls short of reality we should just invent our own reality?

If you want to put me on ignore, that's fine, I don't really care, but don't announce that you can't read my posts. That assumes my feelings will be hurt by your refusing to acknowledge me and projects the childish attitude that you somehow win points for doing so.

[Lauxman 10]

Ludo has valid points. folk say women are not allowed on the frontlines yet i can throw a link to a site dedicated to fem soldiers.

no military would send soft sided trucks onto the frontlines. yet supply trucks and salvage trucks roam freely around the map, even behind enemy lines.

so why shouldn't female soldiers be implicated?

people argue the fact about facts of RL military vs the sim, yet the sim has many flaws that wouldn't be had in RL military.

sorry anfiach cant read your reply. nor do i wish too.

More ignorance from a cranky feminist.

I wouldn't be opposed to females in the game, the support vehicles alone are pushing it without any real difference between the guys operating them and regular infantry. I think that ACE has differences, at least in ability to operate vehicles-crew members and pilots and the like shouldn't have the same level of fighting ability as infantry anyways, but they do and it'd be hard to implement.

As for ethics, including women as viable targets might be seen as bad as civilian children. I don't particularly care on this aspect, but I know that many do.

As I said, though, if there was a strong enough demand for females then BI or addon makers would provide. There is not a demand for it.

[IceShade 0]

Well, female characters..

There are plenty of females in-game, but it's a shame they can't do anything other than walk around and die.

At least if they could pick up a gun and shoot, I could make a nuns vs priests mission.

:627:

[johncage 30]

More ignorance from a cranky feminist.

I wouldn't be opposed to females in the game, the support vehicles alone are pushing it without any real difference between the guys operating them and regular infantry. I think that ACE has differences, at least in ability to operate vehicles-crew members and pilots and the like shouldn't have the same level of fighting ability as infantry anyways, but they do and it'd be hard to implement.

As for ethics, including women as viable targets might be seen as bad as civilian children. I don't particularly care on this aspect, but I know that many do.

As I said, though, if there was a strong enough demand for females then BI or addon makers would provide. There is not a demand for it.

what part of his post was ignorant? also, there's plenty of demand for female characters. just look at the amount of hits from a forum search for "female characters/models"

and shooting a woman is no more morally objectionable to shooting a man or a child or an infant for that matter, because they're virtual. ie not real.

[An Fiach 10]

what part of his post was ignorant? also, there's plenty of demand for female characters. just look at the amount of hits from a forum search for "female characters/models"

and shooting a woman is no more morally objectionable to shooting a man or a child or an infant for that matter, because they're virtual. ie not real.

64 hits over 3 separate game forums and using 3 words to define the search......

EDIT: Meant to point out that of those 64 hits, few of them are related to the subject.

Edited December 9, 2009 by anfiach

[celery 8]

what part of his post was ignorant?

You could read through the last few pages but here you go:

i posted my last post on it. doesn't stop the feeling of discust against you guys about the way you see women.

and no i'm all male and no my better half isn't making me say these things

and you are who?

i'm probably old enough to be your grandad .

one thing i never do, is take the word of some snotty kid on a forum so yes i do know how the training goes.

people join the forces for various reasons, dont matter if they are infantry or cooks they all have to learn to shoot, should the situation arise, each and every team member needs the ability to shoot back (return) fire in an ambush situation.

so come back when your old enough kid.

but once again, reply to me here its going to be ignored.

CBA with this thread anymore. toomany sexist idiots posting.

no simply one more idiot added to my ignore list.

people argue the fact about facts of RL military vs the sim, yet the sim has many flaws that wouldn't be had in RL military.

sorry anfiach cant read your reply. nor do i wish too.

[Lauxman 10]

what part of his post was ignorant? also, there's plenty of demand for female characters. just look at the amount of hits from a forum search for "female characters/models"

and shooting a woman is no more morally objectionable to shooting a man or a child or an infant for that matter, because they're virtual. ie not real.

It is ignorant because women aren't allowed to serve in combat roles at the moment. Their role is expanding, but it is still very limited. Yeah, there are female soldiers, and they do get involved in conflicts at times, but they aren't supposed to.

If the demand was real enough then addon makers would compensate.

I personally agree with you on your second point, about how there is no moral objection since it is a video game. However, plenty of people disagree.

[dmakatra 1]

No way, you thik the male voice acting is bad, wait till they add nagging :butbut:

How surprising. You're against the inclusion of female soldiers AND you're a chauvinist. What a coincidence!

I personally don't care. I'd like to see female soldiers include, but I can also see the workload required to do so. But just because you side with one of the arguments doesn't mean you're free to degrade 50% of the world's population.

Good job making the chauvinist prejudice of the military sim community come true.

[An Fiach 10]

How surprising. You're against the inclusion of female soldiers AND you're a chauvinist. What a coincidence!

I personally don't care. I'd like to see female soldiers include, but I can also see the workload required to do so. But just because you side with one of the arguments doesn't mean you're free to degrade 50% of the world's population.

Good job making the chauvinist prejudice of the military sim community come true.

Not my fault you can't appreciate a joke. Don't be a jackass.

[Colt45_GTO 10]

still dont see replies from the sexist members but here....

http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/

thats pretty much the history of female soldiers.

and no i'm not a feminist. i just got thier back ;)

quick edit.

wars were never soley won by males. it was with the great help of the females behind the scenes making ammo etc. and history proves it.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Colt45_GTO

[-Snafu- 78]

To adequately express my dismay at many of the replies to this topic you would need a face the size of a small sun to hit a palm about as big as Jupiter.

Whether female soldiers are any good or not is absolutely beside the point. Whether they should be fighting in wars is also besides the point. The reality is that pretty much every military in the world includes women. Do they serve in the front line? Usually not. But of course one could point out that trucks are rarely used at the front line either but they still feature in the game.

Partly true but the comparison stops there as the support trucks provide a valuable role in the game - by supplying, repairing, healing and transporting the virtual forces.

Now, before others get their knickers in a twist I am not saying women do not provide a valuable role (the clue is the "in-game" part). Including a female model will only add a little to the game whereas the support vehicles add a lot. Thus, is it worth BIS using (probably) stretched resources on something rather small that will bring no major benefit to them? No.

Anybody who thinks this is sexist needs a reality check.

[Lauxman 10]

wars were never soley won by males. it was with the great help of the females behind the scenes making ammo etc. and history proves it.

Sounds like a freaking amazing game. And without taxes, militaries couldn't be funded! So why don't we just play the Sims to appreciate the civilian aspect of modern infantry combat?

[An Fiach 10]

Well to further knock the concept, I guess he is trying to say that there was never a war before the American Revolution. I'm tired of batting down these insipid arguments. This deranged person equates wanting the realism of the game to reflect the reality, with calling women weak and worthless people that have never contributed anything to society. The mind boggles.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Including a female model will only add a little to the game whereas the support vehicles add a lot. Thus, is it worth BIS using (probably) stretched resources on something rather small that will bring no major benefit to them? No..

But we already have supply vehicles and the best BIS have to offer ATM is DLC that has, at its base level, already been covered by the community ie. no females. And a lack of Mlods as examples to help the community to progress to O/A level so probably no decent female characters to look forward to.

Maybee BIS have ,like many of those posted here, forgoten that they made a game. Its link to reality always tenuious. And its ability to have you wake up with 12 inches dangling between your legs......impossible.

I say, bust outa the square and bring em on!

[NoRailgunner 0]

I say close this thread or Pathetic_Berserker will find and reply to even older ones.

[fouba74 10]

Do you really belive that ?.I was thinking of what Taconic did say at the beginning of this thread at page 2 .. Many countrys have females in the frontline . I am a military my self .WE have alot of female soldiers .Both as vehicle drivers and in combatant roles ..Females is good as male soldiers . its just bullshit that females is weaker .

Fouba74

Edited August 24, 2010 by fouba74

[lugiahua 26]

I just hope they could port or make some way so female characters in game are able to fire weapons or drive military vehicles...