A.C.E. Advanced Combat Environment Mod 2

[Alex72 1]

Personally i also think blurring when tired would be good. Would be maybe a little better than blackout as you can at least see something moving around you - but not really see what it is since your so out of focus, breathing extremely heavy and worn down.

I didnt mind the blacking out as i understood why it happened, and it was something you had to be sure to avoid by not running like an idiot or carrying a shitload of gear. Simple. But i remember in ArmA already i thaught "hey if this could be blurred instead that would be nice!". Now the ability to blur excists. :)

Maybe blur plus that fatigue LSD thingy? Slight and not overdone. There is some experimenting that can be done in ARMA2. :)

[wheres my rabbit ? 10]

blurry screen would indeed be a better solution and if theres was little pinpoints of light floating around the screen (seeing stars) that would really good. no idea how or if that could be done tho

[Angle 10]

round and round we go...

So its easy to tear something down based on your personal taste, but it more difficult to suggest a better idea. How to you convey to the player that they absolutely need to stop and rest?

It reminds me of my wife, who can always tell me what she doesn't want to do...but can never give me a better alternative. ;)

is it so difficult to envision a alternative solution to blacking out? Use the same effect as when you get injured. Force the player to crawl around for a while.

When you are really tired you stumble and fall a lot. But you generally don't blackout unless you have diet issues.

EDIT: Well actually i distinctly remember a time when i had broken some ribs and had to run like a 100m to catch the bus. i got halfway before i blacked out from oxygen deprivation and had to sit down for like 5 minutes.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Angle

[Alex72 1]

"is it so hard?"

Do you know what a big work these guys are doing and sharing with us for FREE? No need for wiseguy manners.

There is options being discussed here on how to do it. Feel free to join in, but please keep that sour tone out of here.

[mattxr 9]

is it so hard?

Well if its so easy lets see you give it a go and get a concept working ingame for people to use.

anyways off all this, i just looked over all the ACE II screenshots and videos and i must say i am very very excited for the released product. It all looks great and when release comes around ill be a very excited puppy :P

[Angle 10]

Do you know what a big work these guys are doing and sharing with us for FREE? No need for wiseguy manners.

There is options being discussed here on how to do it. Feel free to join in, but please keep that sour tone out of here.

Its absolutely free for you all to ignore me as well. And my suggestion was absolutely free too.

And excuse me if my somewhat inadequate English makes it difficult for me to properly express my opinions without insulting people. Or making me appear as a "Wiseguy". That whas an incomplete sentence.

[fincuan 0]

For reference, I finally found the post where someone measured the movement speeds. No need to go for the "it feels like this and that"-argument anymore

The speeds clocked:

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-assault-tactics-missions-mod-discussions/132953-ace-wish-list-8.html#post1235138

A US Army officer comments on that:

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-assault-tactics-missions-mod-discussions/132953-ace-wish-list-8.html#post1235200

Guess what, I agree with him. Anyone can do that on or off the track without gear, but those kind of movement speeds achieved in the field, in combat with the appropriate amount of gear, would be blazing fast.

[subs17 9]

Actually, soldiers pushing their limits black out quite often IRL

No they don't especially not when they're being shot at.:cool:

If a person Blacks out whenever they push themselves then they are not fit enough to be there the level of exertion in Arma that the players character experiences is not extreme enough to make that happen IRL what would happen is you would throw up and then gain a 2nd wind for an extra 4-5kms and then start to run slower. If you don't believe me then watch the end of Black Hawk down they were being chased some guys threw up but no one blacked out. One possible cause of a person collapsing could be due to dehydration or heat exhaustion but not through running.

Edited October 14, 2009 by SUBS17

[mlenser 10]

A lot of us have turned post processing off for better frame rates - would that effect the use of blurring the screen or can it be done with it turned off?

[PuFu 4591]

A lot of us have turned post processing off for better frame rates - would that effect the use of blurring the screen or can it be done with it turned off?

no relation with your own settings, so it can be done even if you have it turned off

[PogMoThoin 10]

Whens this going to be ready? How far off are we?

[sparks50 0]

I'm pretty sure they said "when its done":j:

[bartkusa 10]

If you turn on post-proc, the game already has panting breath sounds, reduced accuracy, and slight blur as you exert yourself.

Blur is good, because it means if you choose to run fast, you're less aware of your surroundings and spotting contacts.

Also, it sounds like ACE blacked you out, with no middle ground. Instead, a fade to black provides are more nuanced feedback mechanism. This is easily done with the post-proc commands in ArmA2.

[Uglyboy 10]

Also, it sounds like ACE blacked you out, with no middle ground. Instead, a fade to black provides are more nuanced feedback mechanism. This is easily done with the post-proc commands in ArmA2.

In ACE1:

Sprinting

a) Start to breath deep

b) you start to breath deep and very loud ( even if some say that they don't ear anything )

c) very short black out

d) ~1 sec black out increasingly

and so on.. until you fall down exausted

[Lhowon 10]

round and round we go...

So its easy to tear something down based on your personal taste, but it more difficult to suggest a better idea. How to you convey to the player that they absolutely need to stop and rest?

It reminds me of my wife, who can always tell me what she doesn't want to do...but can never give me a better alternative. ;)

Based on personal taste? Giving good reasons why blacking out from being tired is unrealistic isn't based on personal taste, it's based on reality.

Since you asked: A combination of sway and increased head-bob (if that's possible), slowing down, post-processing blur effects, and heavy breathing would all be a massive improvement over blacking out.

[superrat 10]

i am assuming there wont be crosshair in ACE2 ?

[Uglyboy 10]

i am assuming there wont be crosshair in ACE2 ?

I think they will leave this to be difficult level related, as it was in ACE1 and in the default ArmA series.

Based on personal taste? Giving good reasons why blacking out from being tired is unrealistic isn't based on personal taste, it's based on reality.

I think they did it that way in Arma 1 also because there weren't many option on how to simulate "being tired" that not implied a huge amount of scripting, if you ask me the black out effect is a compromise, a good one afterall, but i'm pretty sure they will rely on postprocessing effect this time, i can't speak for the ACE team tho :P

Edited October 14, 2009 by Uglyboy

[Kr3v 10]

I think that ACE developers are horrible creatures from the hell. They are turning our favorite game into the best game ever, with screens, videos and wiki but don't tell us a date. It's horrible guys, we killed 107 dogs, 73 childrens and 82 admins, you know it's bad. Give us an alpha in order to save the world! :D

[mattxr 9]

Im pretty sure the ACE guys know what there doing with the fatigue system.

Also stop asking "when" becuase all these guys work in there spare time, they have no deadlines so they finish there work when they have "spare" time free and that differs so they wont no when release will be except when everything is finished.

[Kr3v 10]

Also stop asking "when" becuase all these guys work in there spare time, they have no deadlines so they finish there work when they have "spare" time free and that differs so they wont no when release will be except when everything is finished.

Of course. But when you can have a belgium beer instead of a basic beer, you will ask for it. It's the same here, the better version is asked for, everybody want it, it's a precious addon. ACE 2 should be programmed without telling us it's existing. Everybody is thinking of the ACE addon. I stopped editing some missions while looking at the ACE features because this addon enlarges the possibilities Arma offers.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Kr3v

[manzilla 1]

Obviously all who are excited for ACE2 want to see it released but a release date, eta or even a thought about it is pointless. They cause more problems and that's when the true babies of the community make themselves heard. Just check the A1 ACE thread(s). The best thing to do is just live with the fact that these guys work on their own time, free of charge, an act of charity more or less. They all know what they are doing and when it is finally released any wait will be forgotten about immediately.

This is a group of guys that the community is lucky to have. They pump out great stuff, they put up with a ton of shit and they like to share what they are working on in the form of pics, videos, etc. To be honest, I enjoy the random updates and the wait is well worth the end product; many around these forums agree. That said, if it's difficult for you to see the news but not know a release date just leave this thread be. That worked for a lot of people with the A1 version.

[Muahaha 10]

Obviously all who are excited for ACE2 want to see it released but a release date, eta or even a thought about it is pointless. They cause more problems and that's when the true babies of the community make themselves heard. Just check the A1 ACE thread(s). The best thing to do is just live with the fact that these guys work on their own time, free of charge, an act of charity more or less. They all know what they are doing and when it is finally released any wait will be forgotten about immediately.

This is a group of guys that the community is lucky to have. They pump out great stuff, they put up with a ton of shit and they like to share what they are working on in the form of pics, videos, etc. To be honest, I enjoy the random updates and the wait is well worth the end product; many around these forums agree. That said, if it's difficult for you to see the news but not know a release date just leave this thread be. That worked for a lot of people with the A1 version.

Well said. Agreed.

[Trauma.au 10]

round and round we go...

So its easy to tear something down based on your personal taste, but it more difficult to suggest a better idea. How to you convey to the player that they absolutely need to stop and rest?

It reminds me of my wife, who can always tell me what she doesn't want to do...but can never give me a better alternative. ;)

I like most hated this feature and I personally love realistic games, but I also understand that no game can ever be realistic, so don't try to be, the most important thing in games aiming for realism is the balance between authenticity and playability.

You simply cannot effectively and convincingly convey physical and emotional effects on a person sitting at a desk interfacing with a program via a screen, keyboard, mouse, joystick, controller etc.

Having the player black out and fall to the ground effectively shuts your game down for the sake of attempting realism, this is a great example of breaking the balance between playability and authenticity, being blacked out on the ground unable to act is not fun at all, and in an unforgiving game where your efforts can be dashed with one round from some random bush this can be extremely annoying.

Telling a player that he can't go on because he is too tired will always be annoying because the player can't relate to it at the time and it is simply not entertaining.

Simply toning the effect down will fix it most of the time, so your soldier takes on the traits of an Olympic athlete, at least it's fun for all concerned.

I suggest that you allow soldiers to run a fair way with a heavy load, still have the weight carried be a factor, but allow ppl to move much further before slowing down dramatically and having a high amount of weapon sway, also blacking out is just a bad feature, get rid of it imo and reduce the effect of crouching/standing up on the players stamina and increase the amount of consistent suppressive fire needed to affect aiming and if possible make it so your own shots cannot cause a suppressive fire effect on yourself.

Subtlety is key.

[NoRailgunner 0]

round and round we go...

So its easy to tear something down based on your personal taste, but it more difficult to suggest a better idea. How to you convey to the player that they absolutely need to stop and rest?

Just a idea - let the players unit do a little swearing against the player something like: "Damn it, I take a rest - now!", "Hey man, there are no super-bots here in ACE2!" or "Someday I will control you..." ;)

Could be good to make that fatigue/expiration feature optional or at least adjustable for mission designers.

[An Fiach 10]

No they don't especially not when they're being shot at.:cool:

If a person Blacks out whenever they push themselves then they are not fit enough to be there the level of exertion in Arma that the players character experiences is not extreme enough to make that happen IRL what would happen is you would throw up and then gain a 2nd wind for an extra 4-5kms and then start to run slower. If you don't believe me then watch the end of Black Hawk down they were being chased some guys threw up but no one blacked out. One possible cause of a person collapsing could be due to dehydration or heat exhaustion but not through running.

Errm, Subs, I am a combat vet and I know quite well what happens.

Your reference to BHD is invalid because a) Those guys were Rangers and Delta who train beyond what average soldiers do (excepting those that take it upon themselves to train on their own time instead of drinking) and b) they were not carrying full combat loads. Oh, and c) it was a movie, so unless you are going to demand ACE2 recreate The Matrix let's deal with real world examples.

The same individual can be affected differently depending on the circumstances as well. To give you an example from my own experiences: Once I was caught in an open area and a tracer round passed within six inches of my face, I was not affected by this at all, conversely another time, I was riding in the hatch of an armored vehicle. We were engaged and my weapon failed due to faulty ammunition. Although we had not come under accurate fire at the time, my blood went cold and it took a tremendous force of will not to jump out and run away screaming. Never felt that way before or since, but it happened. I've seen battle a hardened guy inexplicably faint at the mere mention of contact and I've seen guys pass out, never being remotely near exhaustion. I once watched a guy, an athlete no less, pitch over face first into cement while on a march and the only thing that had changed was he stretched his arms above his head.

The game cannot create for you a sense of the physiological and psychological experiences of your soldier but this is what ACE2 attempts to do. The difference being, these affects do not come unexpectedly and you are able to avoid them entirely. Perhaps the parameters could be adjusted somewhat (we won't know until we actually get to play it), maybe the effect could even vary slightly from soldier to soldier (to simulate varying degrees of health/fitness), but to say that it shouldn't happen at all is naive. There are a lot of factors that can contribute to an individual blacking out and in the end, they have to work within the limitations of the game.