Evolution

[galzohar 31]

If you don't like the MHQ or respawn just edit the mission and take them out. I do it all the time for maps I like but "I" think need a few changes to make them more fun for me and my guys. (This is only done on a private server and original credits are kept for all to see)

I wish it would be that simple... Most missions that have these features would also be extremely broken without them, as they are pretty much designed around these features. Can you imagine a Domination or AAS game without respawn/revive? To have no respawn/MHQ/etc you have to design the mission to work well without those features from the start, or else it will be a pretty terrible mission.

There are quite a few coop and even pvp (A&D type) missions that work well without respawn. I wish there were more people publishing them, though, and more servers playing them. Currently you only really get to see them on private sessions, as most people simply won't play them, at least not without a team of people they know or at least somewhat trust.

[Murklor 10]

Can you imagine a Domination or AAS game without respawn/revive?

That's easy... Just imagine an empty room :p

Personally I have little love for no respawn (aside from specific missions with very few player counts), but there is most definetly things that could improve to enforce - or encourage - wave insertion rather than insta teleport which scatter the team.

A good example of this is the evolution or domination variant (I forget which base) where your team starts on the carrier, there is no MHQ and only pilots can take the helos. The downside is that you're totally dependant on pilots... But if there's good ones on the server it is awesome to deploy in helo teams instead of randomized MHQ spawning. Slap on revive to this and it'd be even better (last time I played such a mission was pre-revive).

This is a lesson I've learned playing the "unrealistic" games. Realism and immersion is primarily about feeling like you're part of a team, not strict physical realism based on limitation and some sort of idea that we can accurately translate the penalty of death to a bloody game.

[Spartan 163 0]

I agree with all you guys, but if he does not like and will not accept not playing on server that has it then he has no choice to remove it and to play with himself.

[maddogx 13]

...he has no choice to remove it and to play with himself.

...

Doesn't that cause blindness or something? :D

[MangoForLife 10]

Can you imagine a Domination or AAS game without respawn/revive?

Of course I can. This is what I'm saying. I CAN imagine ArmA without ANY Respawn or MHQ. It would JUST BE A GIVEN. Yea, people would have to drive around the map longer and would have to rely on pilots and on TEAMWORK to keep them alive. As simple as that.

This could be a Key decision BI COULD HAVE taken, if they had wanted to put their game head & shoulders above any other game in the realism department.

Like Murklor said, Teamwork is the ESSENTIAL component in the realism feeling you get from a game. BI could have just gotten rid of any sort of teleport option, we all know that MHQ = Bye-Bye teamwork. (I feel silly even explaining why TELEPORTING shoulden't be possible in a game like ArmA.)

Everyone is very lax about this, saying - "Oh, but just don't use it.. or play in a server without it.." - I don't think people are AWARE how much this game has been ruined by MHQ. And it's EVERYWHERE.

[galzohar 31]

When you start making missions you will see why those commands cannot be removed from the scripting language even if you don't use any MHQ/respawn in your mission. You simply can't force people to not make certain missions you don't like without also preventing them from making missions you do like.

And again, you're welcome to try playing domination or AAS with no respawn and see how those play out. They're designed around respawn, and would not exist (at least not in anything like their current form) without it. Sure some people (myself included) don't like them, but a lot of people do like them, and nobody can tell them not to play them.

[MangoForLife 10]

but a lot of people do like them, and nobody can tell them not to play them..

My whole point is that people would play and enjoy whatever is HANDED TO THEM.

Someone higher up then mission makers and server admins and players, (BIS...), should wake up and realize just how much all this Teleporting and Endless respawning is ruining what could have been a great realistic experience.

Why go to all the trouble of making a huge beautifull map that gives the player the feeling of a big wide world if 90% of the people actually playing your game are just gonna teleport straight back into the action like in COD?

I can never understand why we have to cater to LOWEST denominator...:j:

And what for?! - NO ONE'S PLAYING ARMA2 ANYHOW! :mad:

[eggbeast 3673]

we all know that MHQ = Bye-Bye teamwork

I'm sorry mate but this is just not true. We have been playing Arma / Arma 2 for 2.5 years, using MHQ since the hohei evo was introduced. The MHQ is ESSENTIAL for teamwork, because it means we can all rally on a certain spot, to deploy a co-ordinated attack, e.g. doing the ambush, combat search and rescue or rendition sub-missions.

The problem with no teamwork is PUBLIC SERVERS with POOR ADMIN. This is why we have about 5 admins on at any one time in our call of duty servers (www.gitsclan.co.uk - often ranked no. 1 for COD) and our Arma 2 server is locked to public.

If anyone wants to play Evo with us, they're welcome, and in our TS, but only by invite. It's a shame, but having opened the server to public for 2 months trial, I have to restart it every day because noobs come in and blow up everything when they realise they need a few points in order to be able to fly. Noobs want to take the A10/ harrier and nothing else... This si what kills teamplay on Arma, not MHQ.

[galzohar 31]

When you have a mission that never fails no matter what you do, you will not have any motivation for teamwork. MHQ or not. People will only start considering working as a team if not working as a team will be likely to cause a failure, and even then not everyone will start working as a team.

[MangoForLife 10]

When you have a mission that never fails no matter what you do, you will not have any motivation for teamwork.

Exactly. All these games, Evolution, Domination... Theyr'e TOO EASY. And then u add suck-a** MHQ to the mix... I kinda feel sorry for the enemy AI. They have no chance whatsoever.

+ Eggbeast, I am not intrested in playing in a Clan. My whole argument is that BIS should take steps to make the game more naturally team oriented - REMOVE MHQ AND ENDLESS RESPAWNS. It's as simple as that. We don't need admins kicking people, we need people to have NO CHOICE but stick together, because if they die they are off the server.

Edited October 14, 2009 by MangoForLife

[galzohar 31]

In case you still hadn't figured it out, there is no "MHQ" function or "teleport" function. Instead, there are vehicles and scripting commands that allow you to set the position of units, which are often necessary for any mission, respawns or not. For example if you want an ammo box on the floor of a building rather than the roof, you have to use the setPos command. So like I said, you should learn scripting before making demands to BIS about changes to the scripting commands.

[RazorCH 10]

make the game more naturally team oriented - REMOVE MHQ AND ENDLESS RESPAWNS

Have a look at EvoBlue 3.92

U can set the respawns.......5 up to Unlimited.

U can Disable the "Beam" function to the MHQ....etc.

Try it....and.........easy with MHQ......LOL

[eggbeast 3673]

good job razor - always good to add optional functionality for server admins to set their own conditions

i'd like to see anyone try and play evo with only 5 lives lol, or 1 as mango suggests, but if he wants to try let him.

if they die they are off the server.

You would do well to join 6th sense, they've been playing hardcore death=end of your mission for years since Vietcong came out.

I like this style of play, but not many do, so it's a case of working in as much realism as you can without resorting to spending your evening watching others play cos arma crashed on you, or cos your wife came in and annoyed you just when you were crawling into the enemy base etc etc

there are plenty of single-spawn team missions so don't worry too much about us evolution junkies!!

:cancan:

[kocrachon 2]

good job razor - always good to add optional functionality for server admins to set their own conditions

i'd like to see anyone try and play evo with only 5 lives lol, or 1 as mango suggests, but if he wants to try let him.

You would do well to join 6th sense, they've been playing hardcore death=end of your mission for years since Vietcong came out.

I like this style of play, but not many do, so it's a case of working in as much realism as you can without resorting to spending your evening watching others play cos arma crashed on you, or cos your wife came in and annoyed you just when you were crawling into the enemy base etc etc

there are plenty of single-spawn team missions so don't worry too much about us evolution junkies!!

:cancan:

My clan runs an evolution Dedicated Server, but when 3+ clan members are one we run realistic missions with 1 life that are based on my experience in the Army.

One such Mission is a night time air drop onto an air field, to esecure it to allow American Equipment to get droped. I also make my missions harder than hell to put us ot the test. Such as my Air Drop mission, all we get is a single humvee with an M2, 4 men, and some silenced M4s.

We go up against 50 AI with 6 technicals.

Needless to say, it takes us a long time to finally beat these missions. You get one life, and when you lose one man, thats 25% of your man power god :P

[MangoForLife 10]

there are plenty of single-spawn team missions so don't worry too much about us evolution junkies!!

:cancan:

Guys, I'm not intrested in the endless missions and numorous clans I can join. I'm talking about what can be done on the public servers.

Sorry, but I think this sillyness with Arma being an open ended game where everyone can design his own mission just hurt the game. BIS could have done better with imposing some restrictions (Respawns, MHQ, + get rid of those stupid imaginary Crossahairs!.. etc') - U leave it open ended like it is now and all u get is people running around JUST LIKE in Cod, Teleporting, Respawning endlessly etc' etc' - Go online and see for yourselves.

Yeah, I don't know anything about scripting, but I feel BIS could have sacrifiecd some of the so called "freedom" of their game in order to get rid of all the aforementioned crap.

What can I say...:confused: If BIS people are happy to see all these run & gun game modes rule 99% of what's being played online, I wish them all the best. I think it's outrageous that a game with such great potential is going to waste. And please don't suggest I join a Clan, open my own server, or go online and play the version I prefer... ALONE...

Edited October 17, 2009 by MangoForLife

[Minoza 11]

I must agree on this... I mean, though you (Razor and other modders) left option to disable MHQ and similar stupidities I can't find one server with actually MHQ disabled...

What I recommend is to simply create old style EVO Blue and EVO Red without MHQ, HALO from base (HALO from choppers and planes are awesome but NOT FROM BASE FLAG!!!)

Also HITCHING script from Mando is awesome too...

''T'' menu is awesome and doesn't need any modifications IMHO, only thing that bothers me is that it refuses to save Terrain Grid (terrain level of detail) setting for some reason... Whenever you set it then close and again open menu with ''T'' Terrain Detail just returns to Low/Off (Grid 50)... You could try to fix that...

Anyways thank you for delivering such awesome missions!

Btw. there's one russian version of EVO Red v0.95 or v0.96 that is most similar to what EVO used to be but I'd like to see EVO Blue also and this russian version is mainly in... well... russian... which can be a bit of problem for english speaking users....

Edited October 17, 2009 by Minoza

[dale0404 5]

Did I hear that this getting put onto Island Panthera or Namalsk Island?

[MangoForLife 10]

What I recommend is to simply create old style EVO Blue and EVO Red

[/b]

''T''

At the least.... ( and if I may suggest, as a veteren Evo player, don't put respawnable choppers and vehicles in there.. let people work and have something challenging, in old Evo Blue the LB's were constantly respawning and people were just taking off and flying on their own. Try to push the players to work as a team.. Don't leave the decision in their hands.)

[PeterEyres 0]

Did I hear that this getting put onto Island Panthera or Namalsk Island?

ive seen them on the server browser..

[eggbeast 3673]

At the least.... ( and if I may suggest, as a veteren Evo player, don't put respawnable choppers and vehicles in there.. let people work and have something challenging, in old Evo Blue the LB's were constantly respawning and people were just taking off and flying on their own. Try to push the players to work as a team.. Don't leave the decision in their hands.)

what happens is that noobs enter the server take all the planes and choppers and destroy them and then they leave. then your mission is screwed cos you can't get to the city without a MHQ or HALO... or without driving miles and miles. I'm not sure what you seem to be asking for is actually going to be a playable mission.

[Minoza 11]

what happens is that noobs enter the server take all the planes and choppers and destroy them and then they leave. then your mission is screwed cos you can't get to the city without a MHQ or HALO... or without driving miles and miles. I'm not sure what you seem to be asking for is actually going to be a playable mission.

If someone is noob he wont score enough to fly anything (that's why we have RANKED EVO) and also that's why we have engineers that will repair things...

I mean... EVO didn't have MHQ in start (in Arma 1) and there was nothing wrong with it... I recall I always used to be an engineer and I would love to repair things... MHQ has nothing to do with that... MHQ + UNLOCKED version EQUALS bunch of noobs screwing around....

[Minoza 11]

I can't say how much I'm starting to feel dissapointed about many servers out there... I mean, I've just been on some French server playing Domination...

I'll explain situation... I was in base, I teleported to battle area (Kozlovka in this case) cause there was no one flying choppers at the moment (and I HATE teleporting)... So, we cleared Kozlovka and I asked if someone can do EVAC with chopper and this was response from admin:

''Use teleport, chopper is for MHQ only!'' - WTF?!!!!

What are you doing to Arma?!!! Choppers are being used ONLY to transport fucking teleports?!!!

And what's funniest thing is, when you join server screen pops-up saying that server is realistic and that everyone should behave and play realistic... LOL?!!! oO

Poor Arma... This is rape...

Edited December 7, 2009 by Minoza

[Pain0815 10]

Dont play evo or domination on publics then.

Try more teamwork orientated missions without teleport like the longest day or hunt waldo 2.0, or play domi and evo with friends or on events/pw servers

[Minoza 11]

Dont play evo or domination on publics then.

Try more teamwork orientated missions without teleport like the longest day or hunt waldo 2.0, or play domi and evo with friends or on events/pw servers

Yeah, I know. I was just saying that it is shame.

BTW, thx for your suggestions, I played Waldo on my clan server, cool mission.

[eggbeast 3673]

well if it's any consolation in our evo you can fly uh1 and mh60 from base at private rank - 3 of each. Plus, 4 cobras and 6 apaches at major rank. and also there is an additional mh60 and cobra at each of the 3 remote farps, and a uh1 at the island and the SW airbase... plenty of chance to do chopper work. Also we have made a lot of progress with the side-missions so you can join the server, team up with your mates and just do side-missions all night - just like in arma 1. If you have commander class you can make a recon teleport point to help maintain momentum on the missions, or not as you wish...

we play for hardcore teamwork, taking towns in swat-like chains with different weapons to deal with different threats... this works very well for us, and you're very welcome to come play...