BI press release Re: OFP title and development

[BLSmith2112 0]

I wanna wrap my head around it! Unless I'm mistakenly mindscrewed up between the times they talked about starting over! I forget when they did it.

Alright, this might be all difficult with the names and such. So like..OFP comes out. Its out for a while. Finally, a thread is displayed on the forums dubbed: "GAME2". They don't know what to call it, so they just keep it there as a placeholder. Their dream gets cut short (we assume lack of funds?), their dream gets put on hold. They need some capital, boom "GAME 1.5" (or OFP 1.5 as they call it) is born. Finally, with the extra capital - they finally have time to work hard on their long awaited "GAME2", (or the true sequel to OFP2).

Therefore, "GAME2" was actually "ARMA2", therefore "ARMA2" was in development before "ARMA1" because "ARMA1" was simply "OFP 1.5".

Thought Process:

1. Release: OFP "Hurrah!"

2. Plan: Arma2 "w00t new game idea! Lets get started!"

3. Reality: Arma2 "Dammit! No money!"

3. Release: Arma1 "Hurrah.. money!"

4. Reality: Arma2 "w00t, we have money!"

5. Release: Arma2 "HURRAHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Wait... everyone knows that, what am I missing?  

[-)rStrangelove 0]

1. Release: OFP "Hurrah!"

2. Plan: Arma2 "w00t new game idea! Lets get started!"

3. Reality: Arma2 "Dammit! No money!"

...

Wait a second...

... so if BIS would've announced they need money / donations sent to them and a lot of fans here would've responded we would be playing ArmA2 right now?

Damn.

I mean, it's not a bad idea is it? If you already know you def WILL buy a new game when it comes out eventually why not send the full prize to the developers beforehand? You get a code via mail, go to a pc games shop, show the code and get the original game without paying another time.

Oh come on, it's soooo easy!

[andersson 285]

As some people here seems to have some things not clear to them I will copy-paste what I wrote on CMs forum.

Quote[/b] ]To clear some things up.

OFP1, the start.

Then BIS started to work on OFP2, later renamed because they lost the name. OFP was ported to xbox and had an improved engine, that was used to release a "1.5" version of OFP as the development of "game 2" took longer than expected. "1.5" turned out to be bigger and better than expected so BIS released it as Armed Assault. "Game 2" then got the name ARMA2.

So originally ARMA2 was intended to be the sequel to OFP1. ARMA was an unexpected bonus originally intended as a massive upgrade of OFP1 using the tech from the xbox-version that got bigger.

In parallell of all this is VBS. VBS1 is based on OFP1, VBS2 is based on ARMA.

VBS is not made by BIS, its made by BIA (Bohemia Interactive Australia).

OFP2 is made by CM and is inspired by BIS games.

I know most people here knows all this, and probably in more detail, but it seems that a few missed the non-linear timeline. Understandable if you started with arma.

The VBS input was aimed at CM forum-users as theye claimed VBS to be a sequel.

[4 IN 1 0]

The missing part is VBS, since bi owns the engine they might earn a part of the sales of vbs. But since the money might not be able to cover the cost of developing game 2 they have result into get money by creating ARMA, which is a by-product of creating game 2, which in hope it may also have a restart on their sequel, which the plan didn't go well for you know what reason.

I think people should know is that bi are trying protect the fact that they are the only one who made ofp1, and the fact that even CM have own the name they still can't claim(or in any ways make it sounds like) they are the created of OFP1, and from the same concept while CM can use the name they can't really call it a sequel (because it just isnt)

[-Rifles-_Charlie 0]

Hello everyone. I haven't posted here often (if at all), but I've been a member of this community since 2005 and this issue has infuriated me so much I feel I should throw in my two pence worth:

The main issue at stake here is not who owns what and whether we hate CM or not. What is at stake here is reputation. What BIS have said these past few days has been very unprofessional, no matter how cheeky CM are being.

The problem is that BIS are missing a ridiculously crucial point: Yes, it's 'the game, not the name' ...but we, or the wider gaming community as a whole, haven't seen either of the games yet!

Now that BIS have basically issued a public challenge to CM with this new press release and interview, Spanel's got the wider gaming community (i.e. those who don't necessarily play ArmA) confused over which game is the 'true sequel' to OFP: CWC.

People here and at other ArmA sites will already know ArmAII is the 'spiritual successor', but in the grand scheme of things that's not very many people.

However, being the 'spiritual successor' means nothing if the game's awful when compared to OFPII. BIS now have to make a truly awesome game to prove to everyone that it is indeed 'the game, not the name'.

So in a sense, they're screwed. CM will trash them at retail no matter what.

Charlie

[dentist guba 0]

after what CM did to the colin mcrae series AFTER HIS DEATH I don't have a huge amount of respect for them, just another publisher with a big bag of dirty tricks.

[BLSmith2112 0]

Quote[/b] ]What BIS have said these past few days has been very unprofessional.

Perhaps, but it's generating a lot of discussion. Which is spilling off all over the web. I think it probably has more of a positive impact than a lesser one. For BIS to claim they have made the award winning OFP, while Codemasters are touting that they made it, when they never did.. is just wrong. So a public declaration I think was necessary to keep the record straight... from those who aren't necessarily into the BIS/Codemasters/OFP/OFP2/Arma/Arma2 politics as much as us talking heads are. So the people who actually played OFP, can be assured that the people who made it aren't making OFP2... because its difficult when people like Codemasters says they are making the official sequel and using members of the original team OFP team... which they're not.

Quote[/b] ]...but we, or the wider gaming community as a whole, haven't seen either of the games yet!

Is that because Codemasters releases an ad campaign to the WIDER community (that costs them a shit load of money) while releasing hardly ANY information? While the SMALLER gaming community (us) sees the ACTUAL game with the consistent releases BI has been giving out (handsomely) to their loyal fans over these last few weeks. We have seen this game. We have hardly seen OFP2, Codemasters has only shown a few screenshots, a few seconds of video, a bunch of CGI, and thats about it. The wider community knows less of that, while the smaller community knows a LOT more about Arma2.. because we see, hear, watch footage of it nearly every week. While Codemasters has the funds to call every newspaper, every major gaming website, every forum across the internet to announce that they have 5 pictures to show and a video thats mostly a juiced up interview, mixed in with a few seconds of game footage. Meanwhile, yesterday BIS release 8 pictures, and every week prior to that a promotional video for other factions etc. If BIS decided to stop producing promotional material for a few months... they'd still have 10x the media Codemasters has available. All I'm saying is that BIS has an open mind here and isn't scared to show off the amazing game they're creating. Its interesting, it should be getting attacked more for its flaws because we get all the game footage all of the time, yet we hear only some negativity. Codemasters stays silent, yet, no one has really seen their game so who are they to judge? People will become more judgmental of them prior to seeing any of their material while sitting patiently waiting for them to announce something.

Quote[/b] ]Now that BIS have basically issued a public challenge to CM with this new press release and interview, Spanel's got the wider gaming community (i.e. those who don't necessarily play ArmA) confused over which game is the 'true sequel' to OFP: CWC.

Thus, stealing sales away from Codemasters. People actually may want to purchase a game who ACTUALLY made the original OFP. As Maruk said, the confusion is originated by CM because they tout that THEY are making the official sequel to OFP... Those customers (who as you say, haven't played Arma), will come flock down and give Arma2 a try knowing what they know now. If they don't at least they may look into it a bit further and give Arma2 a look, considering most gaming websites haven't even picked this game up yet. They're all in bed with Codemasters.

Quote[/b] ]So in a sense, they're screwed. CM will trash them at retail no matter what.

Well.... duh. When you've spent over 26 million dollars (as of November last year) on development alone, I'd say so too... I can't wait to see what their advertising budget looks like when it comes down to the homestretch. Maybe they'll release 7 pictures this time with a wallpaper!! And maybe, maybe another fancy interview with a whole 15 seconds of gameplay!!! Exciting!!! Zomgz I can't wait. That little "media package" will be plastered everywhere, and make them millions.

[-Rifles-_Charlie 0]

Quote[/b] ]Codemasters are touting that they made it, when they never did.

I don't think they've ever explicitly said that. Thus, the public declaration was unneeded as, to be honest, there wasn't any 'record' to straighten out. If you look around (in ArmA reviews in magazines, on gaming community sites, wikipedia, etc.), the facts are there.

Maruk's press release and interview just shows (to me personally) that they are very conscious about something relatively unimportant, when they should be concentrating on making a potentially great game. The only moral high ground to take here is getting one's head down and making a decent game. Starting a public feud is, for lack of a better word, childish.

Again, it will just making gamers, who might have already decided upon which game to buy, needlessly confused. Therefore, this should be done privately.

Quote[/b] ]We have seen this game.

Sorry, but no, we haven't. Videos and pictures may look great, but as everyone here loves to point out, gameplay is something totally different.

That is what I'm saying: all that matters is the quality of the games upon release.

Again, if ArmAII turns out to be a huge anticlimax, then, to be brutally honest, BIS will look very silly indeed.

Quote[/b] ]And maybe, maybe another fancy interview with a whole 15 seconds of gameplay!!! Exciting!!! Zomgz I can't wait.

That, in my opinion, is one of the major flaws in this community: Jealousy and bitterness. All people have done here is express a fiercely partisan attitude and simply bashed Codemasters, who for all you know are going to release a truly awesome game that only enhances the reputation of the OFP franchise. On the CM forums however, any BIS-bashing is quickly rooted out with a stern word from the moderator. This thread, and theirs, is about discussion, not flaming.

Anyway, it's all been said now, BIS' dirty laundry is out there for all to see. Let's let the games do the talking.

[Maddmatt 1]

_Charlie @ Mar. 01 2009,07:52)]

Quote[/b] ]And maybe, maybe another fancy interview with a whole 15 seconds of gameplay!!! Exciting!!! Zomgz I can't wait.

That, in my opinion, is one of the major flaws in this community: Jealousy and bitterness. All people have done here is express a fiercely partisan attitude and simply bashed Codemasters, who for all you know are going to release a truly awesome game that only enhances the reputation of the OFP franchise. On the CM forums however, any BIS-bashing is quickly rooted out with a stern word from the moderator. This thread, and theirs, is about discussion, not flaming.

Anyway, it's all been said now, BIS' dirty laundry is out there for all to see. Let's let the games do the talking.

Plenty of BIS bashing on the CM forums with no complaints from moderators. Follow their thread on the same thing, it's like many of them never even bothered to read through the press release before posting their thoughts.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

_Charlie @ Feb. 28 2009,20:52)]

Quote[/b] ]Codemasters are touting that they made it, when they never did.

I don't think they've ever explicitly said that.

They did, in multiple previews: "When we made the first Flashpoint, we...".

[dentist guba 0]

the point that victor makes at the end is a totally valid criticism, we have seen long gameplay footage of ARMA 2, we have only seen the tiny glimpses of OFP2 which codies probably picked very carefully and STILL there are massive bugs e.t.c. within them.

examples-vid where gun disappears, ground looks pretty low res under grass(when he lies down), AI shooting without aiming, gun attached to camera a la COD.

[MehMan 0]

Quote[/b] ]I don't think they've ever explicitly said that. Thus, the public declaration was unneeded as, to be honest, there wasn't any 'record' to straighten out. If you look around (in ArmA reviews in magazines, on gaming community sites, wikipedia, etc.), the facts are there.

Not ArmA reviews, but OFP2 previews. And interviews. They worded themselves as if they were the original developers.

Quote[/b] ]Maruk's press release and interview just shows (to me personally) that they are very conscious about something relatively unimportant, when they should be concentrating on making a potentially great game. The only moral high ground to take here is getting one's head down and making a decent game. Starting a public feud is, for lack of a better word, childish.

Again, it will just making gamers, who might have already decided upon which game to buy, needlessly confused. Therefore, this should be done privately.

Did you read the whole press release?

Quote[/b] ]That, in my opinion, is one of the major flaws in this community: Jealousy and bitterness. All people have done here is express a fiercely partisan attitude and simply bashed Codemasters, who for all you know are going to release a truly awesome game that only enhances the reputation of the OFP franchise. On the CM forums however, any BIS-bashing is quickly rooted out with a stern word from the moderator. This thread, and theirs, is about discussion, not flaming.

Not really. I browse the forum every now and then and BIS bashing is pretty rampant.

[BLSmith2112 0]

_Charlie @ Feb. 28 2009,14:52)]On the CM forums however, any BIS-bashing is quickly rooted out with a stern word from the moderator. This thread, and theirs, is about discussion, not flaming.

Guess it helps to have one of the active members from this forum on their website moderating for them .... though I do admit, a little excessive flaming is going on... but the facts I made comparing the two I completely standby.

_Charlie @ Feb. 28 2009,14:52)]Maruk's press release and interview just shows (to me personally) that they are very conscious about something relatively unimportant, when they should be concentrating on making a potentially great game. The only moral high ground to take here is getting one's head down and making a decent game. Starting a public feud is, for lack of a better word, childish.

When a company publicly states that they 'worked on' OFP, or their staff had worked on OFP in the past spreads across the web like wild fire. Keeping a statement like: "That's completely false." under the radar, I think is kinda silly. It should be out in the open, a declaration if you will.

If Codemasters is allowed to openly, publicly say things that are untrue... BI has every right to openly, publicly say they are not. The public statements from CM and their affiliates have already been said... the damage has already been done (and continues to be done). In order to even attempt to correct the lies, or half-truths (same thing) it really doesn't do much justice to because people have already made up their minds at that point, but BIS I suppose is trying to stop the fire before it continues to spread.

I forget the saying but "a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.â€

--

I hope the Maruk & the team aren't all flustered now by this, and can keep their heads down, continue to concentrate, and manage keep working hard. It may have been a quick statement to have been written up, but I can see something like that giving me butterflies while waiting for a response. This really is a bold statement, and stuff like this doesn't just pop up and go away (at least privately I'm sure). Even though all of his points are valid and truthful. Who knows, it may work out to their benefit. More interviews, free publicity, etc..

[TWCRASH 0]

Plaintiff1 the only thing ignorant statement is your lack of respect no where did I say anything for or against either. Companies buy out and takeover companies all the time and buy out divisions and if your naive enough to believe that CM wouldnt use the name that they OWN your a fool.

So please spare your comments to someone who really gives a crap either way.

You openly displayed ignorance at the situation, something you still do.  I didn't call you stupid, so why not come down from code red there, Captain.  The name is not at issue here.  If you read my post (it's a good read!, you would have elevated yourself from that weak, fallacious position.  I'll spare you the coddling of reiterating myself but I'll leave you with a little tip.  In order to not sound ignorant, you actually have to learn new things.

I know it's about saying what the true sequel is but you know BI had their chance with ArmA LONG before Cm decided to make a OFP. If they would have made a decent product we wouldn't be having this discussion. ArmA is a crappy second rate game and BI have only themselves to blame. The crown was theirs to wear. Crying foul now is like an NFL moving their team to another city and renaming it and the previous city decides to make a new team with the same name (Browns fans will love that one lol) and the team that moved on starts crying THEY are the real deal. I'm sorry I feel no sympathy for Bohemia.

ArmA 1 is the moneymaker for ArmA 2. 2's the game we should be looking out for, BIS have not messed their chance up at all.

So what your telling me is Bohemia released a worthless POS JUST so they could make some money and ALL of you find that OK?

Wow that burns my ass and makes me think you all really need a reality check. If anyone else did that you all woulda ripped em apart. I won't be buying anymore bohemia products i see in the future.

Thats like a goddamn slap in the face

[-Rifles-_Charlie 0]

Quote[/b] ]Did you read the whole press release?

Yes.

I am not disagreeing with BIS' argument at all. I agree CM are out of line a little, going around saying they're making a sequel without referencing BIS.

All I disagree with is the whole public nature of their argument. Press releases are not there to start legal disputes. Maruk says CM wasn't contacted before releasing the press release and IMO that is bad form.

I think we're all essentially agreeing anyway. We all want ArmAII to be the best and we want it to get all the credit it deserves when it's due. However, as Maruk says, the whole situation is very complex and the press release doesn't cover all of it.

What Maruk also says is this:

Quote[/b] ]We are putting as much effort and passion into ARMA II as we did for the original game, and I am sure our competition at Codemasters is also trying hard to come up with a remarkable experience, which is a win-win situation for everyone, especially for gamers.

...and this:

Quote[/b] ]This public statement is very insignificant to the final quality of our next game anyway.

He is exactly right. There's no need to develop partisan or malicious feelings about this at all. All that matters is that OFP1 is inspiring 2 major new games, both of which will be great (in different ways, obviously).

So, let's just leave it to the lawyers, shall we? At the end of the day, all we can do is speculate, which implies that none of us have lives .

[[aps]gnat 28]

_Charlie @ Mar. 01 2009,08:37)]Press releases are not there to start legal disputes. Maruk says CM wasn't contacted before releasing the press release and IMO that is bad form.

Bad Form? Bad Form !!

You think CM "accidently" made all those claims and "linking" comments !?

If you read it, it quite clear theres been a LOT of "talk" between them for a long time. As I see it, from BIS perspective, Enough is Enough

Quote[/b] ]So, let's just leave it to the lawyers, shall we?

You seemed to have missed the whole purpose of the Press Release.

They don't need lawyers, is very clear everyone (in the respective companies) know EXACTLY what each other owns .......... the press release is in the main to make it clear to the potential buyers

Not everyone knows OFPs history, and could be mislead into a knee-jerk purchase.

CM don't care AFTER you handed over the cash ...... !

[4 IN 1 0]

So bi instead of repair the leaking boat while it still floats and openly condemn the one who intentionally(or accidentally) creat the damage, they should let the leaking boat sink and sue him silently while general public thinks that the boat is his...

not something I would think as a good action

Oh and BTW the one thing that bi might be doing wrong is to use the word "press release", may be using press statement is more appropriate terms?

[Pennywise 0]

BIS has every right to be furious over this. Codemasters pretty much screwed them every which way they could. Not only did Codemasters do a horrible job helping them publish OFP, but they also shafted the studio that invented the game and spent countless hours trying to make the dream a reality Codemasters literally ripped off BIS. BIS is doing the right thing fighting for what they believe in. If BIS were to remain silent, they would only be giving their consent. I'm only surprised they waited till now to speak out. Haven't some of you guys ever felt passionate about something? I mean more than just dropping $40 on a game? Cmon, it's way more than the game. The little man has just as much right to exist as big corporate. I want to see my czech friends succeed; they deserve it more than any. Regardless of the initial quality of ArmA. It was pretty obvious why things were done to way the were, I mean if you really know your history. These guys are just trying to survive. I for one will not buy or play the Codemasters ripoff of OFP. With all due respect, Codemasters hasn't even released a beta and they claim they will have something for release in the next 3-4 months? Heck, we have yet to hear if Balderton Capital is even providing continuing funding during these tough times. Codemasters has been extremely quite about their operations lately. While some of you may find yourselves feeding out of the palm of Codemasters. I'm not fooled by their CGI trailers, elaborate displays, primitive .NET looking editors, and gimped screenshots. I think ArmA is in a pretty good position now and ArmA II is much further along than OFP2 if you ask me. My money is on BIS.

[BLSmith2112 0]

Yea I agree. Its interesting, I actually care for BIS as a company & as a group of individuals whom I want to succeed. I can't say that for many (or any) other companies. I think its their open nature.. "Here's some early build Screenshots. This is my comment on this and that. Oh heres a blog or two or three. I'll answer some of your questions & concerns"... I mean how many companies actually come down off of their high horse and listen to their fans? So when it came to Arma in its opening weeks, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and knew they'd pull it together eventually. No one can buy loyalty.

So what your telling me is  Bohemia released a worthless POS JUST so they could make some money and ALL of you find that OK?

Wow that burns my ass and makes me think you all really need a reality check. If anyone else did that you all woulda ripped em apart. I won't be buying anymore bohemia products i see in the future.

Thats like a goddamn slap in the face

Like I was saying above, if you know BIs history - they usually have a rough start. They eventually pull it together, and the people that stick around stay for a very long time. Knowing this, people would probably give them the benefit of the doubt.. usually the people that do know it are here to stay.

For those who have no idea on BI's history, they don't care one way or another that they rushed its development in certain areas and not so much in others. All those people care about is a good game. There isn't much I can say to people is that it's their loss they didn't give them a chance to show them what they're capable of. Arma2 won't have the false start that the current Arma has.

Thats the difference between the loyalists and the newcomers, we know what BI is capable of.. and I guess knowing the politics helps too.. Arma1 may have had a bad initial couple of weeks/months, but I knew that, with time, everything would turn out alright. it also helps when you've actually got the dev's talking about the thought process behind Arma1 and why it lacked what it lacked and so forth. So add that up with loyalty, and you get a bunch of us.

[andersson 285]

If arma is a slap in my face, then hit me once more. I love arma.

[ck-claw 1]

If arma is a slap in my face, then hit me once more. I love arma.

Lets slap each other for a hour or two

[Deadfast 43]

Plaintiff1 the only thing ignorant statement is your lack of respect no where did I say anything for or against either. Companies buy out and takeover companies all the time and buy out divisions and if your naive enough to believe that CM wouldnt use the name that they OWN your a fool.

So please spare your comments to someone who really gives a crap either way.

You openly displayed ignorance at the situation, something you still do.  I didn't call you stupid, so why not come down from code red there, Captain.  The name is not at issue here.  If you read my post (it's a good read!, you would have elevated yourself from that weak, fallacious position.  I'll spare you the coddling of reiterating myself but I'll leave you with a little tip.  In order to not sound ignorant, you actually have to learn new things.

I know it's about saying what the true sequel is but you know BI had their chance with ArmA LONG before Cm decided to make a OFP. If they would have made a decent product we wouldn't be having this discussion. ArmA is a crappy second rate game and BI have only themselves to blame. The crown was theirs to wear. Crying foul now is like an NFL moving their team to another city and renaming it and the previous city decides to make a new team with the same name (Browns fans will love that one lol) and the team that moved on starts crying THEY are the real deal. I'm sorry I feel no sympathy for Bohemia.

ArmA 1 is the moneymaker for ArmA 2. 2's the game we should be looking out for, BIS have not messed their chance up at all.

So what your telling me is  Bohemia released a worthless POS JUST so they could make some money and ALL of you find that OK?

Wow that burns my ass and makes me think you all really need a reality check. If anyone else did that you all woulda ripped em apart. I won't be buying anymore bohemia products i see in the future.

Thats like a goddamn slap in the face

I definitely wouldn't call ArmA worthless POS...

And if anyone else did that?

Take a look at NFS and EA Sports series. And these have much less changes than ArmA and OFP.

[-Rifles-_Charlie 0]

Quote[/b] ]Bad Form? Bad Form !!

Yeah, I am of the opinion that it is bad form. Sorry if you don't like that. That doesn't make me a BIS-hater that shouldn't be here.

Quote[/b] ]You think CM "accidently" made all those claims and "linking" comments !?

If you read it, it quite clear theres been a LOT of "talk" between them for a long time. As I see it, from BIS perspective, Enough is Enough

I have already said that I think CM's tactics have been out of line. The problem is that BIS have actually reacted to it, in a way that could be potentially damaging for BOTH comanies.

That press 'statement' has gone to loads of websites. To the casual gamer it now looks like all BIS does is care about preserviing the past with their games, and not moving on and breaking new ground. It just looks like they want to bicker.

That is my personal view. Don't like it? Fair enough. You've got to have someone advocating another opinion for this to be a discussion...

...and also so we don't all turn into BIS fanatics who would blindly follow them 'til the very end, even if they made the next CoD

[VXR 9]

According to this article of a well known Game magazine in The Netherlands, Operation Flashpoint 2 is created by Bohemia interactive and distributed by Codemasters. There is even told there is a bohemian flavour in the game like OFP1.

The guy that wrote the article had the information from the Codemasters stand at E3.

[Placebo 29]

So what your telling me is  Bohemia released a worthless POS JUST so they could make some money and ALL of you find that OK?

Wow that burns my ass and makes me think you all really need a reality check. If anyone else did that you all woulda ripped em apart. I won't be buying anymore bohemia products i see in the future.

Thats like a goddamn slap in the face

If you're incapable of making a point without offensive trolling then your capability to post on this forum won't last much longer, you're entitled to your opinion, you're not entitled to be offensive and abusive.