Trains in Arma2?

[kavoven 4]

I can't remember names, but someone did make an island with workable trains for OFP.

I tried the demo many years back..it had potential, but I do not remember it ever getting finished completely.

Yes i also can remember this Island wasn´t i done by some german guys from the AEF forum or something like that?

Me

It was Phoenix Island and Dschulle and Lester did the trains&tracks. The train didn't work so well with the AI and Dschulle left the team shortly after the release since he had a new job and we couldn't continue the work.

But I liked driving around with the train and I think there where even some further islands with working train networks.

Edit

And if you tried the demo you will have tried the test island for the train... that one was done by Odin

[dslyecxi 23]

Of all the things that could be implemented in ArmA2, trains seems like a huge waste of time and effort. For a small dev like BIS, they have much, much better things to spend time on. Things that would actually influence gameplay and not just be a one-time "Oh, neat!" thing.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Right, instead of trains they could make some kind of cargo ships. Aren't you a little bit "surprised" that BIS developed an ArmA island scenario without transport stuff? How those heavy things like main battle tanks land on those island? Continuous invisible beams by USS Enterprise NCC-1701 or USS Enterprise NCC 1701-D?  

There must be an eastegg with "James T. Kirk was here" or "Please Mrs. Quandt... and it's Worf not Wolf!!"

[Ezekiel 0]

I agree with Dslyecxi on this... Actual moving trains, fully implemented, would be a hideous waste of time. We all know that no matter how many cool things could be done with the engine, there will still be great features that don't make it to the final release. Having trains fully implemented but not having something more fundamental like units able to cross bridges properly or poor performance looking at foliage would be a fatal mistake for BIS at this stage.

They've done the right thing by putting in a train network - It's realistic, fits with the industrial settings of the new island, and will make a good navigational tool for players using the map. Static trains will also add greatly to the atmosphere when fighting around docks and depots, and if we're lucky they may even be destructible. But moving trains... the only use I can see is a one-off 'bomb the train behind enemy lines' sort of mission, which wouldn't even be that realistic considering it's much easier to just sabotage a line or leave a mine before the train even turns up (or these days more likely, just bomb/shell it from the air).

In terms of NoRailgunner and the argument about how we need trains to realistically portray heavy cargo movements in a war - who really cares? Seeing trains with tanks or gun crates loaded up moving around is not exactly enhancing the gameplay much, and we can all just assume the supplies were brought by train before the mission began so it doesn't ruin the immersion. Again, the only real gameplay use of them is the old 'bomb the train' type mission, and you don't really need to use a train to get a great mission of that sort. The only other use is if you want to see people loading and unloading crates, which quite frankly I could go down to the harbourside to watch. :P

[NoRailgunner 0]

It would enhance the gameplay more if those kind of logistics could be proper implemented: If you don't take care of your supplies at airports, harbors, railstations and supply routes you will loose the war.

Guess most people will have trouble with such an additional demand.

They don't think about because shooting with auto supply is usual in shooter games. Like Ezekiel said "who really cares". Don't broaden your mind

[Ezekiel 0]

We're getting a carrier plane, we're getting large boats (or an aircraft carrier at least by the look of things) and there's always been supply trucks to move supplies. I'm not saying ignore the 'logistics' side of warfare, just consider how exactly this will affect the way you play the game. I don't think 'supply trains' will ever be a big enough feature to justify spending time on them, that sounds like a job for community modders. Military supplies don't just zoom around the map in trains on autodrive, you're not going to see an island populated with zippy little trains and you fly your helicopter around. At best they'll be a target to attack or defend in a one-off mission and the ocassional bit of ambient decoration which has no real affect on a battle.

[kavoven 4]

I really don't care about realistic supply situations. But let's face it - ArmA was no real step forward related to OFP and gameplay. So we need new features!

I don't want to spend money on a game that's the same AGAIN, even if it has better AI and graphics. I want new, enhancing features to play with and a working train system just adds another dimension!

Speaking of boats - How do they add anything to the gameplay? I mean, you just place them and either they bring units in or take them out. They have no other purpose and in my eyes a train could be even more usefull.

[mattxr 9]

I really don't care about realistic supply situations. But let's face it - ArmA was no real step forward related to OFP and gameplay. So we need new features!

I don't want to spend money on a game that's the same AGAIN, even if it has better AI and graphics. I want new, enhancing features to play with and a working train system just adds another dimension!

Speaking of boats - How do they add anything to the gameplay? I mean, you just place them and either they bring units in or take them out. They have no other purpose and in my eyes a train could be even more usefull.

This would be too hard to built into the engine and even if they could it prob wouldnt work good.

Im all for a static train as you can place one anywhere and it has the same effect except it doesnt move, but as others i dont see the point in spending so much time and resources in making a fully working rail system.

[kavoven 4]

I think nobody here, beside BIS, can judge what would be hard to build in and what not!

[Lester 0]

It should be a wonder if trains are to heavy to build into the engine.

Let us begin at the AEF_Train point.

- in ArmA+ scripts run a lot faster

- a lot of additional and helpfully commands are in there too ...

What problems got the AEF_Train ?

- AI stops instandly when men or vehicles are on tracks

A "simulation=train" must have a much longer break distance and/or a more delayed reactiontime

- AI can't drive backwards because waggons are calculated as "obstacles"

A specific obstacle class must be defined for a AI Driver have to stop, all others must be ignored when in a "train" vehicle.

- AI would leave the tracks to use shorter ways.

In this case the AI have to ignore complex routing and only use forward or backwards to a near reach of the next waypoint

All this things couldn't be so heavy, in a lot of other cases BIS made such exquisit limitations !

A other point is if BIS see the same advantage of trains like us.

[Ezekiel 0]

Speaking of boats - How do they add anything to the gameplay? I mean, you just place them and either they bring units in or take them out. They have no other purpose and in my eyes a train could be even more usefull.

Actually don't quote me on this but I think one of the devs said that boats won't be a major part of ArmA2, which won't be so bad considering the game isn't set on an island this time. Maybe.

[Commando84 0]

I really don't care about realistic supply situations. But let's face it - ArmA was no real step forward related to OFP and gameplay. So we need new features!

I don't want to spend money on a game that's the same AGAIN, even if it has better AI and graphics. I want new, enhancing features to play with and a working train system just adds another dimension!

Speaking of boats - How do they add anything to the gameplay? I mean, you just place them and either they bring units in or take them out. They have no other purpose and in my eyes a train could be even more usefull.

Ships / boats have the same use as trucks and air transports but they are less armored , armed and they dont show up on anti air radar but on anti ground radar.

boats add that extra atmosphere to a mission.

what if arma would not have cars, tanks or aircraft and ships???

it could have been labeled just a shooter with uber realism but now, its something larger with all the vehicles classes you can use in the game. If there wheren't for the vehicles in Ofp i maybe would have stopped playing ofp already 2002 or something..

[kavoven 4]

Aha, and whats the difference to a train? There are way more possibilities to use a train than using a boat. (Anyway, what do you want to tell me with the radar?)

And where did I say anything about cars and trucks or to take out other vehicles?

Please read my posts and their relation to the topic before responding!

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

I remember reading something way back when discussions were happening about ArmA1 that we'd have to wait until Game2(ArmA2) for trains to appear..

I was hoping for moving trains as objectives for some air and sabotage missions I've had in mind for a long time now, nothing like a time-limited mission window to stop that train before the mad scientist gets to the city with his nukes..

If trains aren't actually going to appear, then perhaps the best thing to do would be to add a new and distict 'road' class for the train tracks that modders could specify as their preferred / ONLY useable road class for train models that might be added later on?

Models-towing-models to create a train is optimum, but even just a long, jointed, model would do the job, as long as the whole train could follow the curves of the tracks.

[sparks50 0]

The traintracks are just gonna be cosmetical, there wil be no trains.

Good thing they didn't waste time on that I think.

[merlin 17]

unfortunately i think it would be difficult for modders to make the train tracks usable. one of the train intersections (split from one track to two) would not be able to move as it is just a static model with no animations. plus i dont think BIS spent alot of time to make the collision models on the tracks PERFECT. i dont know much about modding, but theoretically you could release a replacement pack that replaces all of the static track models on the map with improved ones that function properly.

[aus_twisted 0]

Aha, and whats the difference to a train? There are way more possibilities to use a train than using a boat.

Gonna have to disagree with you here, boats and ships have far more possibilities then trains simply because they can travel to anywhere in the world. Once ships have reached the location vehicles can be unloaded for land travel, trains are limited to where the tracks go which makes it far to easy to attack and stop them.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I see no real point in even having a train. Why make all this fuss about it?

I specifically remember a mission involving a moving train in one of the early Delta Force games, either 1 or 2.

So while you see no point in it, my experience with EARLY tactical shooters allows me to see a purpose.

Throw in moving trains in IL-2 Sturmovik and it gives me something else to shoot at from the air.

If I'm a "feature-creep", then some people are clearly feature-killjoys.

[sparks50 0]

The thing is, with BIS doing all these important things, do you really want function able TRAIN on the map?

I think this is the reason why some people feel like BI isn't listening to the essential gameplay requests,

because all request threads made by the community ends up in everyone wanting everything, in all detail .

Thus leading BI to lean away from the community and think on their own.

Sorry for that rant.

[killerbambam 0]

There will be im sure people looking at this subject and testing things out to see if trains etc do work. I have few train models that i could convert to try and sure it would work as long as the tracks had [ shape (imagine that 90 degree CCW) then the wheels could be placed inside that. Who says ai have to drive it. if you dont want it dont use it meh. Just have to wait n see. But its like trailers. i want trailers to transport tanks etc or artillery pieces but hasnt happened yet! (i made the dodgest botch job of a trailer but sucks).

Lets just wait for more piccys on arma2.com

[Commando84 0]

Mm trains would be sweet, i have nothing against them, but i just wanted to say boats are not useless

They are nice for their thing for coast patrols or sneaky or not so sneaky sea insertions..

Anyways Its all in the engine i think, the Ofp / Arma engine doesn't support towed vehicles without extra scripting solutions.

trains would have huge potential if they would work as transports and for rearm, refuel , repair units to support ground units.

If Bis would solve that units can't walk in cargo areas of vehicles without falling out / off.

Then People could climb aboard trains and shout out off windows and have firefights inside train wagons

Sure some people would feel trains are limited but imo it would be a great game feature, I would love to have trains even if they where only like oversized Buses who transport soldiers only, but they could work as faster transports than cars and also be targets for aircrafts and ground units...

[berghoff 11]

Of all the things that could be implemented in ArmA2, trains seems like a huge waste of time and effort. For a small dev like BIS, they have much, much better things to spend time on. Things that would actually influence gameplay and not just be a one-time "Oh, neat!" thing.

Oh I don't think trains would be a one-time thing. I can think of plenty ideas for missions if properly implented.  

But yes I hope other things will be worked on first that are lacking.

[Commando84 0]

maybe they can add it in a expansion pack or a patch? I wouldn't mind. But hey im an easy blonde i have to be one of the few in this forum that likes the tab target system

[SaBrE_UK 0]

I'm sure it would be possible with scripting. I mean, I don't know too much but "nearestobject", "setdir", "setpos", "getpos", "setvelocity" and other similar commands could surely be put to good use to keep a train on its tracks. And the aircraft tug mod has shown articulated lorries are possible, so carriages should be as well.

I don't think trains are necessary in the full game, but they could make some fun missions if modded in afterwards.

[kavoven 4]

I'm sure it would be possible with scripting. I mean, I don't know too much but "nearestobject", "setdir", "setpos", "getpos", "setvelocity" and other similar commands could surely be put to good use to keep a train on its tracks. And the aircraft tug mod has shown articulated lorries are possible, so carriages should be as well.

I don't think trains are necessary in the full game, but they could make some fun missions if modded in afterwards.

Take a look

http://ofp.gamepark.cz/index.php?showthis=7317

Edit

Wow, second mirror still works