Realism vs Game

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Sure i like realism, at a certain degree...

If the game was made for "REALISM" it

would be awsome...But as the game is

designed, removing things like crosshair,

locking on targets and other stuff is only

making the "GAME" worse..It is still a game

right...

And im sorry if i offended anyone just now on

GOL clan server playing Warfare 1.1.6f or some

thing...But being kicked for expressing a slight

dissaproval shouldnt be reason enough for a kick.

You could have told me to shut the hell up or leave

instead...

[baddo 0]

Do you always come here to talk about what happened to you on some server?  

It's now second time that I can remember.

Removing cross-hair can indeed be argued to make the gaming experience worse. We miss a lot of input in a game that we have in real life, and the game needs to make up for that somehow. The cross-hair is one of those things.

I don't know about the "other stuff".

[Pirin 0]

We miss a lot of input in a game that we have in real life, and the game needs to make up for that somehow. The cross-hair is one of those things.

Iron Sights and/or RCOs seem to work perfectly well as part of the game and are quite realistic.

[subs17 9]

The cross hairs represent aiming the weapon without using the sight eg like firing from the hip. IRL there would be no crosshair although if the weapon had a laser sight then you would have a red dot.

[mattxr 9]

Do you always come here to talk about what happened to you on some server?  

agreed.

Anyways you were kicked for going overboard moaning about the server settings. We dont like that on our server period. If people dont like the way we run our server they dont play on it, its like that.   in a non harsh way. Also we already had some abusive players on before swearing and typing in caps, we didnt want another comotion between you and other members of gol and the public who would of said the same thing as i just typed before.

That will be why you got kicked. But we also have sparce details to the hole incident.

[mattxr 9]

The cross hairs represent aiming the weapon without using the sight eg like firing from the hip. IRL there would be no crosshair although if the weapon had a laser sight then you would have a red dot.

Yeah and firing from the HIP is not accurate. Try it. With the crosshair it is.

[wipman 1]

Hi, game vs realism = game 6. realism 1. I'm editing a mission on

Sahrani and i've added a pair of static SLA Strela launchers over

a tanks garage and then i took (as civilian) a RACS M60A3 and

blown off a MI-17 parked near the runday (in Isla Antigua), then

i became enemy and then, the statick Strela launchers targeted

my M60A3 and blown me off with 3 Strela missiles. As far as i know

the Strela missiles are IR guided, so i don't know why they're able

of target my tank (by the front) while if i switch to a yankee A10

pilot, im not able to see as a target (use the Target Near Objective

keybind) just because i putted that static vehicle as Empty on the

map and then i ordered an AI to be assigned as gunner and to move

in as gunner of that static Strela launcher. But it's quite ovbious

that the game leaks of realism and not only because it's a game.

The last "try" of "valance" the game has make it worst than how

it was before; in the reality... the battlefield is unvalanced, that's

why a combo of good tactics and resources at disposal makes

you win battles or clashes and earn medals; because you've the

right tactics to compensate the leak of brute force that your

forces at disposal don't have. For make this game much more

realistic we'll need a completly new engine, or 3 years of study

and practice the arcane and hard path of the work arround; that

im almost sure that will not allow us to play in MP due to the

client/server desinc. Example: The SLX vehicles. Let's C ya

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Do you always come here to talk about what happened to you on some server?  

It's now second time that I can remember.

Removing cross-hair can indeed be argued to make the gaming experience worse. We miss a lot of input in a game that we have in real life, and the game needs to make up for that somehow. The cross-hair is one of those things.

I don't know about the "other stuff".

Hmmm... Yes i do...

If i feel i have been misstreeted in any way... I had NO idea

that there had been another incident..

I was mearly trying to explain that i couldnt lock on ANY

targets with the Harrier...Then i got kicked...

I ALLWAYS argue the importance of admins on the

servers, but the admin in charge should be verry good

at the job. I didnt even get a warning...If you had let me

explain there wouldnt be any need for a kick. I would either

have left on my own or kept playing with the settings you

have assigned...I am not that smallminded that i start yapping

and cursing to everyone...

And again, im sorry if i offended anyone..

[Heatseeker 0]

Playing without the crosshair is just a matter of practice, the crosshair allows headshots over considerable distance (zooming) without using proper aiming, its a cadet dificulty thing for CTF'ers.

I played at GOL's alot before because not many servers were like this, good times .

[mattxr 9]

Well on our server the Lock Box works, also you can lock with the harrier GBUs if a target is lasered with a laser guider.

[dmarkwick 261]

Removing cross-hair can indeed be argued to make the gaming experience worse. We miss a lot of input in a game that we have in real life, and the game needs to make up for that somehow. The cross-hair is one of those things.

I got to agree with this I was going to type pretty much the same thing and then saw that someone already had

When you play a "realistic" game on a PC you got to compensate for the fact that you're playing with a monitor for view and the low resolution and 2D nature of that. I can shoot from the shoulder/hip pretty well in RL, but that's because I have good spacial sense. I don't have that sense when looking at a monitor, I NEED that 3D info. If I haven't got it, I reckon the ArmA pipette is a pretty good replacement. I still need to go to ironsights to get good quality shots off, but I can also fire off a few quick shots off in very short order when I need to, which is quite often

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Hmmm...

I was flying the other Harrier (Not gbu) and i couldnt lock

on any groundtarget at all...Not even on air targets. And

THAT isnt realistic..Maby a balance thing but not realistic...

[mattxr 9]

Hmmm...

I was flying the other Harrier (Not gbu) and i couldnt lock

on any groundtarget at all...Not even on air targets. And

THAT isnt realistic..Maby a balance thing but not realistic...

Well the locks do work. And were working in that map.

But the mission played for a total of 7 and a bit hours before it finally crashed.

[metsapeikko 0]

Well, what I want from "my" ArmA is realism, if I wanted some arcade fps game, I would have picked Counter Strike or Unreal Tournament.

In my opinion, Realism = Fun.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i agree that realism = fun, that's why i like mostly the simulators;

but we'll need to improve the realism of the game by improving the

addons quality where possible. I've never made a tank, but the BIS

tanks (and vehicles in general) leak of hit points ruins the realism

on 'em and that's something that we almost can't improve as far as

i know; same goes for the choppers... we can't damage just the FLIR

or a single engine because the damage system of the game, damn

it, we don't even have working MFD's, avionics or land systems that

take advantage from. And like this... all the rest.

About the crossair... i think that make it half transparent and smaller

will help to know where you're aiming at and will make it harder

for those who use to fire from the hip when in CQB and not in

"so CQB situations..." and remove the shine effect too; so by

night (if the crossair will be transparent and small enough) you'll

hit what clavijo's hitten = nothing. Let's hope that the ArmA2

have some (read: much more) game's engine improvements over

what we've now; otherwise BIS will would have robbed to us

again and then we'll had to think in ways of avenge the money

that they robbed us if we gonna pay for the same graphycaly

improved OFP engine that we play and enjoy rightnow. Let's C ya

[sv5000 127]

While you should never be booted for expression your opioion, You should never be abusive in the way you do it. I am not saying that you were, but maybe due to language difficulties etc, someone took offence, I dont know.

For me, Ironsights all the way  

I remember playing games for years, wishing for ironsights, then games started getting them and everyone whinges about losing crosshairs.., the world is a strange place  

[wipman 1]

hi, i don't have problems with the crossair, i don't use it unless that

i spott a OPFOR unit at less than 10m from me, mostly inside large

buildings or stretch streets; i just gave an idea that could serve

for those who want keep the crossair and those who want to get

ridd of it (thing that you can do in your own ArmA in SP).

You can't really complain about a server's config if that server is

not yours; the only thing that you can do is to share your opinion.

Now to other thing... this is what i mean when i say "the damage

model that we've sucks":

A Good Damage Model:

How The Cockpit/Internal View Should Be:

KA-50 Cockpit.

Check how there isn't any HDR bug, or how the HUD brightness

works in favour of the pilot instead in favour of the death. I.E:

The BIS SU-34 Berkut HUD by night or any other plane/chopper

HUD.

How The Sight (MB2 or V) Should Be:

KA-50 Targeting Camera.

That's how the optic/sight/MB2 or V should be in game and how

we should aim to the targets and how we should see 'em; but...

we don't even have a damn IR system at our disposal in the...

"ultimate combat simulator". That's why i've said "Game 6. Realism 1."

because we don't even have systems tha has been there in the

battlefield from the late 60's, in the air as is the land as in the sea.

So... can someone tell me (without make a comparation with

other FPS games) tell me where the realism is!?.

We can't shoot from cargo seats of vehicles, the hatches of the

IFV's/APC's, the cargo area of choppers, use the smoke launchers

of the ground vehicles, destroy a wall without have to take it

down entirely, reload while walking slowly, use/have flashbangs,

have the same ammount of ammo that you'll have in the real life,

have a stamina/load/reaction time system... real sized optics in

guns acording to the targets range and size (a x4 ACOG isn't the

Hubble) a physical damages system; you use hand signals because

some times you don't hear anything unless that damn "piiiiiiiiiiiiii.."

in your ears, also happens with old COM-TAC headphones systems.

Have cuts, bruises, wounds, slashes in your hands, arms, legs,

knees or the feet also affect your reaction time and resistence

to the short sprints loaded with just the ammo and basic party

equipment (read: main weapon, backup weapon, side weapon

and maybe a LAW-72 or AT4 or the ammo for the MG3 man/mule)

so... please... it's ovbious that the game will need alot of improvements

as for deserve the not won tittle of "the ultimate combat simulator"

instead what it really is; the best ground combat simulator released

until date. The accuracy in the words is as important as the accuracy

in the battlefield; because no matters what Jesus said, the words

can be used as weapons too, so... let's keep an aceptable level

of accuracy eh!?. Let's C ya

[Benoist 0]

Ok, I agree that BIS screw it with ArmA, it's not a 100% simulator but is the best that we have.

However you CAN NOT compare a infantry and combined arms (read, easier to drive) simulator with a KA-50 simulator. If we compare the movements of the infantry in the Black-Shack BIS' ones are going to be better.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Do you always come here to talk about what happened to you on some server?  

agreed.

Anyways you were kicked for going overboard moaning about the server settings.

Our server..our rules.......... we pay the bills not you!

Ring a bell anyone?

Topic should be closed.

[wipman 1]

Hi, im not comparing a flyght sim vs a very limited infantry sim; i

just think that that kind of damage model applyed to all the vehicles

is what we need; until then... we're doomed with a worst damage

system that the BF2, where you can destroy or damage separate

parts having a reasonable well done effect of what will happen if.

If we had working MFD's (that we could cycle through) adding a

memory point (called eye too, if you want) looking at the MFD

screen when you hit MB2 will be enough. And don't make me go back

to all what don't works, in the ground; and i don't even gonna talk

about the sea, where everything is a floating coffin that goes faster

or slower, that's all.

Realism... a man on the Armaholic is doing what looks as a very

well done job on a female soldier; we got now 8 years of 21St

century and BIS haven't added and don't gonna add (to the ArmA2)

female units; not as civilians and much less as soldiers; as we

already know... the Marines have women in theyr lines from when?

the mid 70's?, early 80's as soldiers?; realism is too to represent

what's on the battlefield. Damage models, look at the crashed

UH-60 object... that could be using the damaged texture on it,

what may remain of a crashed UH-60, same goes for the rest of

the vehicles; that when you destroy one you feel like a bad western

movie. I know that this is a grunts based sim, but try to add a

pair of AV-8Bs in the map and make 'em attack an OPFOR site,

check that flyght model... please... i've made partys where we

had AV-8BII+ CAS and i can ensure you that they don't fly like

that, flying as slow as the rock thrown by a 9yo kid. And what's

the AV-8B of the game...? it's just an AV-8B? or it's an AV-8BII+?;

if it's the AV-8BII+ (what we've in the spanish Marine Infantry)

it haves it's own FLIR, it's weaponry is more than sidewinders or

bombs... in fact the fixed weaponry of the air vehicles suck.

It should be completly different; you should rearm in the hangar

or add the weapons that you want via Init Box, and the weaponry

models (bombs, missiles, rockets pods etc) should be recalled

and attached this way to the planes/choppers; also you should

be able of drop booth the weapons and fuel tanks, as you do

in the real life some times. May not be a bad idea to add an actions

menu called: Arm AA Weapons, Arm ATG Weapons and Disarm too.

And we could go on and on... on what the game needs to be more

realistic instead of a good looking OFP carrying the same bugs

from the year 1998. 2008 now, ten years have passed and we

still have to deal with the same pointless bugs and limitations of

a engine that was great back in the 98', but that now is a bad

joke and helps few to improve the realism level from where they

left it back in the 98'. Game 6 - Realism 1. Let's C ya

[Casimir 0]

@ Wipman.. The ultimat Combat Simulatory is VBS2

The Not Really As Good As It Should Be Combat GAME is ArmA

Lets be honest everyione ArmA is a Realistic GAME its not a Simulator.. as much as some people seem to think it is.. it isnt.. its a game.

i love ArmA its great but at the end of the day i know its just a down graded version of VBS2.. one that the working man can afford.. A game.. simple as..

VBS2 is priced like s simulator...

Arma is priced like a game...

But theres nothing wrong with playing ArmA as a realistic Game.. Playing it as a realistic simulator is kidding yourself.. it is a game.

[wipman 1]

Hi, 10.000 points for Casimir, he've hit the jackpot BLINK! BLINK!!. Let's C ya

[Yoma 0]

Well I too think that Arma needs women, I'd prefer naked ones.

Guys please remember this is just a GAME.

If you want realism you'd want stuff like

-starving people that can't get to food nor water

-childsoldiers shooting/burning their own village

-fathers forced to rape their own daughters

-soldiers getting their heads shot off while giving candy to 5 year olds

-etc etc etc

In short: you really don't want realism and if you do, check if you can join Blackwater or the likes and get blown up in some far away country defending multinational oil intrests, driving up the gas prices all over the world in the process.

Maybe before you have a go at signing up, go see your local mental doctor, he might be able to fix you up without getting shot at.

[subs17 9]

The cross hairs represent aiming the weapon without using the sight eg like firing from the hip. IRL there would be no crosshair although if the weapon had a laser sight then you would have a red dot.

Yeah and firing from the HIP is not accurate. Try it. With the crosshair it is.

That depends you see the cross hairs can represent either firing from the hip or weapon at the shoulder but not using the sights. With the weapon at the shoulder it is considerably more accurate than from the hip. The major drawback though with this setting is you will take away realism for weapons that require crosshairs such as the AGM65s for the A-10, Stinger missile and the AV8Bs Aim9X. Can't use any of those weapons without crosshairs enabled. It might be a matter of creating missions for that purpose without AAMs or SAMs.

[mattxr 9]

Do you always come here to talk about what happened to you on some server?  

agreed.

Anyways you were kicked for going overboard moaning about the server settings.

Our server..our rules.......... we pay the bills not you!

Ring a bell anyone?

Topic should be closed.

You guys are going off the topic.

SWAT also is correct. Clan Leader Pays - We Run By His Rules.

END - OF - STORY

@Wipman you took this realism thing way out of proportion.