Arma feedback thread - based on 1.14

[maddogx 13]

Quote[/b] ]Using certain mods on a server that does not run them is a 100% certain crash.

Any you don't see how this is a problem that BIS should have already addressed long ago?

Just to add my 0.02€, that is not a problem for BIS to address - it is a problem in the community. People are basically free to use whatever addons they want, but they must also have a basic understanding of what can and what cannot be used on an MP server. The addon signature system is a pretty good way to ensure MP compatibility, but many people do not use it.

EDIT: Inko beat me to it.

[SlipperyJim 0]

Stop being such a drama queen (there you go)

Reporting crashes with useful information like server logs, crash dumps, rpt files and so on is helpful, constantly bitching that 1.14 is shit and causes crashes is whining. Hence the lable. Going off on one at the people suggesting that you post up the logs to help resolve the issues, and getting all defensive over supposedly being called a whiner (tho I dont see anyone in here other than you throwing that word around) suggests some chill time is needed.

DM I think the attitude in your post speaks for itself.

As for posting server and crash logs, please explain how as a client I would get those things when a server (that I don't own) crashes.

MadDogX, although completely off topic, I disagree because it is BIS' responsibility to ensure that servers aren't so easily crashed by clients. Once again I want to point out that this has never happened before 1.14. Why didn't we see it in the public beta tests?

[maddogx 13]

MadDogX, althought completely off topic I disagree because it is BIS' responsibility to ensure that servers aren't so easily crashed by clients.

Well then, provide some feedback here on how you think that can effectively be done. Because from what I can tell, there is no way to automatically block certain addons from servers without seriously reducing the modability of ArmA.

BIS have provided us with a way of doing this using the signature system. Addon makers can make sure their mods are signed properly, server admins can create a white list of addon keys they want to allow, players can make sure they do not attempt to use mods online that are obviously not MP compatible.

The system is there, but 90% of people just don't use it.

If the client doesn't have a mod/addon activated then they can't join the server (and vice versa).

That would be given if the signature system was used.

[SlipperyJim 0]

The system is there, but 90% of people just don't use it

Ah, I get your point.

The problem still remains that when you hit "join" on a server you have no idea what mods/addons are allowed or not allowed. You don't even know if a server is checking the signatures. Arma has nothing in the browser interface to give you feedback.

As for maps based on Evolution, it seems some people are suggesting that 1.14 has changed how some script commands are handled. If this is so, it could have a wide ranging effect on a lot of maps and addons.

[maddogx 13]

The system is there, but 90% of people just don't use it

Ah, I get your point.

The problem still remains that when you hit "join" on a server you have no idea what mods/addons are allowed or not allowed. You don't even know if a server is checking the signatures. Arma has nothing in the browser interface to give you feedback.

100% agreed.

Something along those lines is definitely missing.

[dm 9]

Stop being such a drama queen (there you go)

Reporting crashes with useful information like server logs, crash dumps, rpt files and so on is helpful, constantly bitching that 1.14 is shit and causes crashes is whining. Hence the lable. Going off on one at the people suggesting that you post up the logs to help resolve the issues, and getting all defensive over supposedly being called a whiner (tho I dont see anyone in here other than you throwing that word around) suggests some chill time is needed.

DM I think the attitude in your post speaks for itself.

And so does yours...

As for posting server and crash logs, please explain how as a client I would get those things when a server (that I don't own) crashes.

I dont know, maybe email them and ask? Or if you know the owner, pm, skype, msn, aim, yahoo, icq, irc or any of the other forms of communication granted to you by the wonders of the world wide web...

The point is, many of us are suggesting that you post, or get the server owners to post the various crash logs that are created when they crash, in order to try and fix the crash for possible future patches.

Instead of being proactive you choose to bitch and moan about it in the forums like a 5 year old, and then have the balls to call the people who are suggesting proactive solutions fanboy trolls?

I have seen several games try to do this public beta testing idea and feedback from the community is always ignored.

If the feedback is always like you have been doing in here, why do you wonder why its always ignored?

Seriously, rather than (oh no, I'm going to say it) just whining about it, post the logs,dumps and rpts and the devs can (and as has been seen on this very forum) and DO do something about it.

[max power 21]

If tomorrow I make a mission that often crashes servers, is it up to BIS to accommodate my code or is it up to me to remedy the crashes through an update if I so choose? Really, I think mission makers make missions for ArmA, not the other way around. I think that improvements in the game to fix problems or to enhance security should not have to support 100% of the loose code or addons that came before it. Sound mods have needed to be updated, recoil addons, a whole gambit of gameplay changing mods have needed to be revamped over the course of the patching process. I don't see how suddenly improvements become some mark of shame simply because evo is having a tough time without some modification for the new patches.

[SlipperyJim 0]

Thank you DM for that very helpful reply. Do you see the irony about you complaining about people who are whining? At least I am posting about server crashes that have started since 1.14.

They only thing you are doing is looking for a fight.

[ShrubMiK 0]

I think half the trouble is that people use all sorts of clever ideas...maybe even worthy of being called tricks...to come up with missions that push the boundaries of what ArmA can do. I'm not saying that's a bad thing...quite the opposite...but it does make it more likely that changes to the internals of the game will cause those things to work differently and have knock-on effects.

Evolution in particular seemed quite revolutionary to me, therefore it's perhaps more at risk of these sorts of issues.

The community can probably investigate whether particular add-ons are responsible for some or all of the problems, but ultimately it's up to mod/mission makers to investigate whether their creations still work with new patches, identify what particular aspects of their creations are causing problems, and maybe discuss with BIS whether it's something broken that BIS need to fix, or they need to change what they themselves are doing to make it work again.

This is what would be called "regression testing" - ironically, exactly the thing BIS are being accused here of not having done enough of

Jim, give it a break btw. Perhaps you'll now see the irony in me complaining about the way in which you are complaining about people complaining about people complaining about the way you are complaining about patch v1.14....zzzzz. Of course, this could go on for ever. Alternatively, you might find that if you just approach things in a polite manner to start with, these arguments can be avoided.

[maddogx 13]

SlipperyJim,

selectively reacting to negative portions of posts is not helping here either. If you feel that people are provoking you, just ignore it and concentrate on the valid areas of the discussion.

It could also help if you changed your attitude. As DM said, you mainly come across like you're here to bitch around instead of providing constructive feedback - which is the main reason why people mainly react negatively to your posts. Ultimately this usually leads to WLs and PRs being happily distributed by our friend W0lle.

You are of course free to say what you want, as long as it is within the forum rules, so please understand my comments as friendly suggestions.

[hypno toad 0]

I'm quite happy with the results, seeing as I am running vista, and I have been the one dealing with all the crashes and graphical problems. I think I deserve some time with other people get the crashes for once.

[dm 9]

Like MadDog said, you have to stop focusing on the negative.

I dont see how you can construe "post the crash logs" as whining, but since you continue to send me things like:

I can only assume you are one of "those" gamers, and as such are beyond help.

Quote[/b] ]At least I am posting about server crashes that have started since 1.14.

No, you're bitching about how 1.14 crashes your precious evo.

You have no idea of the number of crash reports I have made, and the many bugs have been resolved due to them.

Take your attitude eslewhere and cool down, before the moderators do it for you.

[SlipperyJim 0]

As DM said, you mainly come across like you're here to bitch around instead of providing constructive feedback - which is the main reason why people mainly react negatively to your posts.

No the reason why certain people have a problem with the post is because they attack anyone who dares say anything about Arma or BIS. For some people this game is their life and they have become obsessed with it. They can't stand anyone being critical of it.

As I already mentioned I do not wish to spend all my time documenting and experimenting on how to fix Arma. Ultimately I don't think BIS is listening to these feedback threads (I am not being critical but simply stating an opinion).

I am posting because I hope that enough people will say "hey, ya something strange is going on here" and someone who knows the game engine will figure it out.

[SlipperyJim 0]

No, you're bitching about how 1.14 crashes your precious evo.

Baam. Knew you were an evo hater right from the get go.

Quote[/b] ]Take your attitude eslewhere and cool down, before the moderators do it for you.

I am sure the moderators will completely ignore the behavior of people like you as they always do. This forum has always suffered from rabid fanboys who flame and attack.

[dm 9]

Heh, again, jumping to conclusions. You should hear what they say about assumptions.

I actually enjoy evo, and play it a lot. Just because I dont demand that everything be changed to suit the one game type doesnt mean I hate it.

You suggest that us "fanboys" "protect" ArmA with all our might, while it seems you do pretty much the same for evo. I never said I didnt like it or that it was bad. But you jumped on me for being an "evo hater". Well news for you buddy: WRONG.

Quote[/b] ]Ultimately I don't think BIS is listening to these feedback threads

BIS ISNT listening to THESE threads, because they are full of the same whineyass crap that is entirely unhelpful to them.

What IS helpful to them is the crash logs and reports that you, and I quote

Quote[/b] ]I do not wish to spend all my time documenting

So you're basically shooting yourself in the foot there, and still come off as whiney.

"Be less whiney and more productive" (or gtfo )

[SlipperyJim 0]

DM you are nothing more than a troll. I came in good faith to post about problems with the 1.14 patch that I was having. Yes, I am not a rabid fan that I want to spend all my time documenting the bugs. Excuse me for having a life and not living in my mom's basement.

I have not seen a lot of people reporting that servers are crashing in this feedback thread. Excuse me for bringing it up and excuse me for not following your high standards on bug reporting.

The thread is called FEEDBACK. Not QA RESULTS.

[dm 9]

It started out as good faith, then it just turned into the standard whine-fest.

Last time I checked, I dont have rabies, I live 10,535.2 miles from my parents (I measured ) so thats one bigass basement, I HAVE a life outside of gaming, yet I still find time to both report bugs in a helpful manner (with crash logs and repro steps) AND "troll" here. Amazing...

You can bring it up all you like, all I suggest is that you are productive and proactive about doing it. As you've pointed out yourself, the devs dont listen to the whiney shit, but they DO listen to the crash logs and repro steps.

[SlipperyJim 0]

This is a FEEDBACK thread. I gave feedback.

I am not payed to report how to fix their game. As a paying customer I report a problem, they figure out how to fix it. See how that works?

95% of the people who own Arma probably never have visited this forum. Most of them have probably given up playing the game completely. Here fanboys like you are being an asshole to people like me who actually take the time to come report a possible problem. Just because you are superfan with no life does not mean everyone else has to be.

The moderators can ban me all they want. Your fanboys in the forum aren't doing BIS a favor by insulting and driving people away.

[maddogx 13]

SlipperyJim,

like I said, your attitude isn't helping your cause. You will find that there are many posts by people who are experiencing problems with the game, but they report the issues in an appropriate manner that does not cause discussions like this one.

So called "Fanboys" such as myself tend to react adversely to impudent and/or rude posts that are nothing more than disrespectful. Legitimate criticism is perfectly acceptable, even if it is not constructive, but name-calling, finger-pointing and general instigation cannot be considered to be valid feedback.

Until you accept that, you won't be getting many positive reactions to your posts. Since you are obviously aiming to be banned anyway, I'll just say: good bye, and good luck.

MDX

[Heatseeker 0]

Feedback:

PKM and M240 have almost no recoil and can be fired very easily from a standing position, they are very overpowered because of this.

BMP2 and shilka comander turret cant rotate in 3rd person view.

(WDL) medic carries more handgrenades than he should (inventory shows 2 but he carries 4).

RACS 4x4 M2 doesnt have the ammo counter in top, left corner of the screen.

Well... i could make a really huge list .

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to SlipperyJim:

What servers are crashing? Then we can get server logs!

Are you running any Mods?

Is BattlEye and sig check on?

Is the server running any mods?

What mission were you playing?

What actions were you doing when the crashes occur? Reproducibility is the key to catching any bug.

What happened just before the crash? See above.

Did you notice any one attempt to join with MODs just before the crash.

The reason why more servers are using BattleEye and Sig Check with Equal Mod is to prevent people crashing servers. Using certain mods on a server that does not run them is a 100% certain crash.

Please check your arma.RPT file

C:\Documents and Settings\{your username}\Local Settings\Application Data\ArmA\arma.RPT in XP not running ArmA on Vista yet so not certain of its location in Vista.

Print it up

As always you machine specs help too with Driver details.

I know bugs do happen and I myself have experienced crashes in ArmA but you are being vague and your experiences are counter to the majority with this patch as you, your self have noted.

The vagueness makes others who are not experiencing what you are suspicious.

Being precise allows the problem to be fixed. Which is after all what you want

Kind regards walker

Hi all

I quote my post that triggered SlipperyJim to his current posts

People can judge for themselves whether I made an unreasonable request or not.

People can judge for them selves whether the comment I made was in order to imply SlipperyJim was a "liar" or to explain to him why others were ignoring him.

On the matter of clients reports in MP servers not telling you things about the server crash; in fact they usualy do especialy when a script or addon is causing the problem and trying to use non existant resources eg missing textures, incorrectly written scripts etc. An examination of the RPT file would reveal this.

Posting up the RPT file costs nothing more than a copy and paste.

Posting up which servers were experiencing the crashes and are not running BattlEye and Sigcheck and EqualMod. Allows the people interested in solving problems to go and test and see if they can help. It also helps others avoid such servers.

Since running vanila ArmA with BattleEye and SigCheck is running 100% OK and is so reported we know 1.14 is fine.

Since those servers running ArmA with BattleEye and SigCheck and Addons that have signatures and equal Mod is running 100% OK and is so reported we know 1.14 is fine.

Using mutualy incompatable addons so that they fight over server and client resources is just plane stupid.

People who moan that they should be able to run whatever addon they want "client side" and that BattlEye and Sigcheck should be turned off at best are not aware of the incompatability issues and at worst the motives are to say the least questionable.

I once again ask SlipperyJim to make a single post answering to the best of his abilities each point.

Then we can start dealing in solutions.

Kind Regards walker

[SlipperyJim 0]

MadDogX if you think walker and DM have been anything but exactly what you have accused me of then you are deluded. Go back and read it from the beginning.

Make sure you cross-reference it with the other thread where walker is accusing me of cheating when I mentioned that BattlEye was kicking people.

I posted feedback in this thread about 5 disconnects in a matter of hours. Walker then accuses me of being a liar about it.

Pardon me for not sitting back and letting these fanboys get away with it.

[maddogx 13]

I am aware of and have read both of those threads. In both cases you posted vague, unfounded and generally unhelpful claims, that DM and walker asked you to elaborate on - which you failed to do. Instead you prefer to interpret some of their casual remarks as direct personal insults.

Both of them have been repeatedly asking you to be more specific and constructive with your feedback, which you are consistently denying, even up to this point.

As far as I am concerned, discussing this issue with you is totally pointless. Since this thread has already been derailed, I suggest we limit ourselves to on-topic posts in future. I will have no more part in this particular discussion, no matter how many flame baits are thrown around.

[Balschoiw 0]

What a waste of forum space.

Reproduceable content of SlipperyJim´s posts: 0

Wasted space : 4 pages ?

Reporting.

[W0lle 1052]

SlipperyJim

I think you should take a break, your flaming and spamming in the past 4 or 5 pages here makes it obvious that you're not interested in giving constructive feedback.

Also a while back we announced that the terms fanboy and whiner shall not be used anymore. You used "fanboy" atleast twice when someone doesn't agree with you. Do you really expect that the devs are working themselves through this collection of flaming and spam in order to get valuable feedback?

+1 WL and a three day break might help, at least I hope so.

The rest goes back on topic now. Every further discussion of this gets deleted.