Constructive Discussions about Community Solutions

[sickboy 13]

Translation?

Thanks Wolf! That makes sense to me

I say: "Go English all the way you ppl!!", but that's me.

I don't mind if guides are being translated. But I believe they belong in English on the BI sites while maybe linked to translated versions etc

[Dwarden 1124]

first what i wrote below is nothing new and in fact i only repeat what i already wrote before somewhere else... :

IMHO what's really missing are tool application for end-users (wich also helps both content developers and server admins)

es major example i'm going to suggest OBMM - Oblivion mod manager or TO manager for old Trainz RS2004...

OBMM http://timeslip.chorrol.com/obmm.html

OMOD format http://timeslip.chorrol.com/omod_format.txt

TrainzObjectz http://www.tafweb-trainz.co.uk/trainzobjectz.html

OBMM gains (and TO are similar)

- it was able to detect any incompatible addon with actual game build

- it was able detect corrupt / non working addon and in several cases fix them

- it was able detect wrongly done addon (e.g. classes overlap) and offer solution (disable, order shuffle etc)

- it was able in case of detected overlap to show which addons collide and where and suggested solution

- it introduced own addon package which include both 7z and zip archive format+ simple certain rules -> this package became de-facto community standard since

- it was able check for newer build of the addon in own and normal archived (checking for file containing the info)

- display additional info about addon like author, his website etc. again via info file

etc.

now combine above with correctly done Multi-player server listing + lobby software

here as i example i use lobby of open-source  RTS game named SPRING

http://spring.clan-sy.com/

this lobby runs prior game and it got some MUST 'basic' features like integrity checks on maps and addons

but because it runs prior game it may be answer to issues which game like ArmA got where loading / unloading of addons after game runs is not 'done' for w/e reason

- admins are able prepare 'non dedicated or dedicated' servers while discussing with end-users

- end-users are able to talk each other before game itself starts

- easy server listing including view of maps, mods including versions and checksums

- there is mod sync check which allows reveal if someone runs 'modified' addon (e.g. different units values)

- gives admins absolute control over server room prior launch

atm Spring Lobby don't have automatic map/mod/addon downloader (it was there as experimental)

yet there is one in development with release when they solve some issues la mirror lists and 'sponsor' ads (same mirror banner like Steam shows when downloading)

>>> this leads to 'any' addon delivery (in ArmA what comes to my minds as close tool is Yomma's tool)

i myself really think that absence of such tools for ANY game which rely on modding scene is mistake

and create 'absurd' situation where You got ton of 3rd party content but only 'fragment' of that reach end-users ...

why? well mainly because it's too complicated and time consuming for average joe to figure out where obtain latest 3rd party content,

then to figure out why X fail to work with Y or why Z don't work at all and so on ...

so i will point finger on Oblivion 3rd party content community (tho they got experience since Morrowind)

if You compare they got delivery sites for end-users like OFP/ArmA (tho i find some of theirs easier to navigate, read and search)

OFP and ArmA developers community adopted some of similar standards like naming system and so on ...

yet the addon 'spread' is in theirs community WAY bigger and easier due set 'standard' , simpler sites and ease to use tools for average 'joe'

---

for admins and end-users i would like to mention free tools like

HLSW http://www.hlsw.net

Qtracker http://www.qtracker.com

for admins :

-lot of titles server remote administration and over-watch

for end-users:

- fast server listing and easy to join ...

---

i decided to use real world example (yet there are more for other games so don't take it as ONLY)

to increase success of 3rd party content and whole game in overall i think

A)

- these tools should be fully supported by game developers (SDK, non NDA information flow or more after NDA) in case they not developed in-house or in direct over-watch

B)

- best of these tools should be part of game package itself or

of at least officially 'presented' on game website(s)

C)

- in ideal case lobby and addon distribution system become part of game in-house product

or middleware like modified Yoma / STEAM is utilized yet still part of product

(tho on XBOX360 for ArmA2 there is obvious candidate in XBOX Live (may lead PC to Games for Windows - Live))

---

there are way more variants to choose from but if all of above is correctly combined then game stays alive for way longer perior with more endusers using 3rd party content

[dob 0]

yes sorry translation ...

coz french moder work at the same time for tutorial.

some exemple (for french reader)

http://www.arma-fr.net/forum....forum=7

http://www.young.cliranet.com/cyp/spip/

[LtCmdrBoon 0]

these forums and the OFPEC are equally good, for different reasons and each has its strong points.

The Wiki *could* possibly be a little easier to navigate, because for someone new who wants to get into making a mission or whatever, the way Wiki is set out makes it hard to find what your needing to know unless as someone already mentioned, you know what you're looking for.

The whole idea about getting the best from the 3 places and linking them, etc is something I admire, but I feel it will be a little late in the day, until ArmA2 comes out, but as I am to believe, the way Arma2 will work is virtually the same with the engine and so forth, it would be good to have this in place.

Learning the basics in Arma, there was nothing worse than being told "its mostly like OFP, look up those guides" because u know its not OFP, and u dont know what has changed and what hasn't.

[rick rawlings 2]

Hey sickboy,

glad to see this is getting attention. I wrote a tutorial for the very beginner who wanted to try their hand at mission editing

tutorial

but I had some good mission ideas that died on the vine a long time ago just because of the frustration factor of getting the hang of all the elements of the game with a wife and kids and a job to suck up my time. I tried a mission where you have to sneak in disguised as civilians to Ortego to assasinate an enemy officer. Well, trying to get the bus to wait for everyone in your squad (during multiplayer) to board at Geraldo was a pain, your A.I. buddies stopped following your orders after a while, and the speak animation never worked for me. It's enough to make a guy go play months of Team Fortress 2. A good co-ordinated resource effort will make it easier for people who have good mission/mod ideas to get them realized, and that is good for everyone!

Rick

[sickboy 13]

Thanks for all input guys...

I believe we need some kind of management team together for Tuturial/Guides oversight etc. I don't mind if it's OFPEC, or me and some other guys or whatever, I just believe we need some kind of management in this, atm im feeling a bit alone (when it comes to management)

[Wolfrug 0]

When it comes to tutorial/guides etc, there's a very simple system in place at OFPEC that anyone should be able to grok:

1) Register at the site & forums, it's fairly easy and painless.

2) Go to ArmA - Editing/Scripting Resources Beta Testing, and make a thread with an informative title ("New mission editing tutorial needs a look-through!") and a link to the tutorial/guide (unless it's -very- large it can probably be attached directly to the post).

3) Wait until someone from the Editors' Depot comes along, checks through your resource, and OKs it. In most cases this shouldn't be more than a quick read to make sure it's all right and then an upload, since the more tutorials we have the better usually! :P

Upon that, the guides/tutorials will be filed in the appropriate section, which includes Mission Editing, Scripting, Cutscenes, Music and Custom Resources, Addon Editing and Island Editing[/url]. There's a chance that once the Addons Depot is properly launched anew, the addon-specific tutorials will be moved to the AD, but that shouldn't stop anyone from submitting them already!

So, as you can see, it's really not very complicated. The only "lag" there is is the period between posting the tutorial/guide whatever on our forums and someone checking it out and uploading it; however, the tutorial will nonetheless still be available on our forums for everyone's enjoyment.

Hope that helps. As to setting up some kind of page on the BIKI (say a page which cross-links tutorials from all the sites out there) : how about just a quick one which links directly to the tutorial pages of each site which happens to have some? Or something. I can't do the BIKI editing anyway (I'll blow it up accidentally) so that'd be somebody else's job

Kind regards,

Wolfrug

[canis lupus 20]

just a quick note...

if a list of all tutorials is made and my suggestion would be to make one that is monitored and updated like the news on all the other arma/ofp related sites, it might be a good idea to add other than arma editing tutorials, if people happen to have a textuing tutorial or something that they like they should be able to share it.

[sickboy 13]

I guess texturing tutorials are included in "ArmA Editing Tuts/Guides" as it's an integral part of modelling I guess

@WolfRUG:

Thanks for the reply. But it doesnt answer my request for cooperation between the tutorial and guide creaters.

No Cooperation: We all create the same guides with the same information, and little variances. We take a lot of time

Cooperation: We all create guides for different things, we are a lot quicker done.

Why do I feel no support for this?

[max power 21]

I completed a mini tutorial regarding cleaning up satellite (or any) photos for use in ArmA. It's in the o2 editting forum:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=72091

It's direct at people who are new to CG and have a version of photoshop.

[baddo 0]

I recommend that people create a ZIP containing all files needed for their tutorial and submit the tutorial to OFPEC.

Don't leave your tutorials to a forum. They will be lost... much less people are going to read them. Links to your example files will break. And so on. Take the time and familiarize yourself with OFPEC and its friendly staff, and submit your tutorials there.

Submitting tutorials to OFPEC requires that you follow some OFPEC guidelines but that is to improve the quality of your tutorial packages. That's what the OFPEC staff is there for, to prevent crap from getting through.

The Big Crash was in a way a blessing for OFPEC as a lot of very badly made stuff was removed from OFPEC as a result of the rebuilding of the website. The website is now in much better shape and should be used for storing your tutorials and other editing resources you create. Backups of the resources should be kept elsewhere too, of course.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i think that will be good if we could have a place where post our

unfinnished SP & MP missions with a briefing or a readme that explains

what we wanted to do, where and how; to maybe have the luck of

that raise the interest of the real and good missions makers in our

unfinnished mission and which addons we'll like to use. Seems that

while we do addons... few servers really use 'em, and it's a bit a of

waste of time, so in this way we could help each other, we could

give a begining point to mission makers, they could give us quality

missions in return and we could support the addon makers by using

they're addons in SP and overall in MP, that's something that i really

miss alot; to use the Johnn's USMC in coop games and also my

damn M4's pack among other addons much much better than my

M4's that are basically as good as the default weapons, which is

not bad at all to me. Let's C ya

[HamishUK 0]

An informative but easy to follow PDF manual is what is missing.

Online tutorials are OK but being able to DL and print a manual makes working on a mission etc for easier to manage.

This is the only thing that puts me off writing my own missions is my lack of knowledge. The availablility of information is far too scattered IMO.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Wasn't there a mission editing manual issued with the

Arma "special edition"? Is that still available anywhere

(separately)?

[sander 14]

Hi,

If I am not mistaken, you are referring to the following guide:

Mr Murray's editing guide

Or perhaps:

Alex Sworn Arma manual 2.13

The older guides for OFP are in my opinion also still most useful for mission editing in Arma:

Mr Murray's OFP guide

* Edit: dead link replaced *

OFP Ueber Editing Tutorial

Alternative location

These four documents combined form an excellent body of reference for mission makers.

Regards,

Sander

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Hi,

If I am not mistaken, you are referring to the following guide:

Mr Murray's editing guide

Yes, that looks like the one.

[HamishUK 0]

I am hoping that guide will be translated soon

[HamishUK 0]

Hi,

If I am not mistaken, you are referring to the following guide:

Mr Murray's editing guide

Or perhaps:

Alex Sworn Arma manual 2.13

The older guides for OFP are in my opinion also still most useful for mission editing in Arma:

Mr Murray's OFP guide

OFP Ueber Editing Tutorial

These four documents combined form an excellent body of reference for mission makers.

Regards,

Sander

They are fine....if you can speak another tongue.

[sander 14]

Yes, but that is hardly an insurmountable obstacle, neither English nor German are my mother tongue.

The Tiscali link is now dead, but for the people without German the Ueber Editor Tutorial file is included in the archive avalable below:

Other download location

Regards,

Sander