.kju 3245 Posted November 3, 2007 To set things straight from the start. This is NOT about realism. If the solution is not realistic. Too bad. The emphasize of this project is to get a good gameplay solution! Good - lets start. As we all know almost all animations related to sprint (fast forward) are horribly buggy: crouch to fast forward transition 3rd move forward(cross) to fast forward(cross) transition 3rd stand to fast forward transition 1st stand to fast forward transition 3rd strafe(crouched) to fast forward(cross) transition 3rd strafe to fast forward(cross) transition 3rd strafe to fast forward transition 1st strafe to fast forward transition 3rd strafe to fast forward transition 3rd However as you can see, the problems don't apply for walk and run animations and their transitions: strafe to move forward(cross) transition 3rd walk to fast forward(cross) transition 3rd So my idea is this: 1) People stop using the sprint / fast forward altogether. 2) Make run the same speed as sprint (effectively make it sprint with different animations). 3) Make walk the same speed as run (effectively make it run with different animations) and keep the walk characteristics: Walk: While walking you still hold your weapon straight, aim and you are able to shoot. Demo videos: It might look bad ... yes ... you won't see it in 1st person mode anyway. As you can see on this video run is now the same speed as sprint: Run Speed Same As Sprint Speed (* new *) Run Speed Normal (Old / standard ArmA) Run Speed Fast (* new *) Of course side run is too fast here. There is not side sprint in standard ArmA either. Walk Speed Normal (Old / standard ArmA) Walk Speed Fast (* new *) Thoughts, suggestion, threat or jihad calls are very welcome! enjoy Q Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HGuderian 0 Posted November 3, 2007 Hi! Interesting project. New strafe/crossing7backward movement appears too much quick than real. Is it possible to have only "new forward sprint" without change the other movements? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HGuderian 0 Posted November 3, 2007 Good! Then might you change the horrible strafe anim? Greetings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andersson 285 Posted November 3, 2007 ....As we all know almost all animations related to sprint (fast forward) are horribly buggy: .... It might look bad ... yes ... you won't see it in 1st person mode anyway. .... Do you see the buggy sprint animations in 1st person mode? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3245 Posted November 3, 2007 Sure andersson Check these two videos above: stand to fast forward transition 1st strafe to fast forward transition 1st Even more its so annoying to have these buggy transitions. You can find many threads and even more posts with people rightfully complain about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benoist 0 Posted November 3, 2007 If you make sprint at the same speed than sprint, why to sprint and get tired? I like how it's done now. In the speed's subjet, now, if you want to change the animations, i'm in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3245 Posted November 3, 2007 The animation system is very very complex. Without more help (documentation) from BI at least I don't have the will and time to do it.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeMeSiS 11 Posted November 3, 2007 1) People stop using the sprint / fast forward altogether.2) Make run the same speed as sprint (effectively make it sprint   with different animations). 3) Make walk the same speed as run (effectively make it run   with different animations) and keep the walk characteristics: Why such gameplay changing 'fixes' for such not-gameplay affecting bugs? EDIT: Wait, i watched the videos and now im not sure how you want to fix this, do you completely want to get rid of the sprint option and the run option and replacing those by 1 'fast run' option? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3245 Posted November 3, 2007 Quote[/b] ]not-gameplay affecting bugs binkster Quote[/b] ]I think the player movements from ofp to arma is what really changed the game play. OFP there was alot of player vs. player. And player movements were quicker and you could actually dodge bullets by moving around corners. ArmA you are very sluggish and seems if you go around a corner you still die being shot at. Of coarse I love both Ofp and ArmA I mainly play online so the SP missions are just when i get bored. I think it comes down to just player movements. Animations really need some work in ArmA. I think thats why COOP is played more cause pvp is no fun. This really killed CTI. In OFP thats all i played was either MFCTI or CRCTI. I can remember Monty was the number 1 place everyone wanted and both sides would usually meet there. Quicker Animations and less sluggish movements would make ArmA 100 times better. [CAVE]guerilla Quote[/b] ]@binkstercan't say it better than you, you're damn right here from What made OPF better? Just to take the two most recent comments about this topic. I try again (you even commented it btw...): 1) sprint same 2) run will have the speed of sprint 3) walk will have the speed of former run Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattxr 9 Posted November 3, 2007 threat or jihad calls are very welcome! Allah Akbah, Allah Akbah, Jihad Your Family Hmm Interesting Idea. I like it. The Sprinting not the Jihad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MEDICUS 0 Posted November 3, 2007 Walk Speed Fast (* new *) This actually gives me the feeling of a movie in fast-forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rundll.exe 12 Posted November 3, 2007 I dont really get it. Because the transitions are missing, wich is basicly a eye-candy thing, you want to remove features from the game by removing walk or run? First I dont get why this would be better for the transitions, second i never saw these "bugs" myself, so they must be really seldom used. The movement system isnt that bad for me, its just the FPS that makes the difference (I think for most ppl it does) Try it, all settings at low makes a whole new gameplay experience. Now dont get me wrong I apreciate you trying to fix the game, but this isnt really an issue imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3245 Posted November 4, 2007 For most non coop, pvp and league gamers ArmA is a game. The speed changes of walk and run are independent. However from my impression walk is basically useless right now. With default ArmA you rather run (jog as some people call it) in cqb situations rather than using walk. You are far too slow by side strafing with walk, so its actually way better to side strafe with run, stop once you see the enemy, get back your crosshair / cursor and shoot him. Quote[/b] ]basicly a eye-candy thing This is simply not true. It seriously brakes any CQB combat. Either not use sprint in close combat situations at all or suffer severely by the long lasting animations / animation beaming! Go in the editor and test it yourself! Go in any cqb map on MP servers and test it yourself! AI is a laughable opponent in CQB situations.. human vs human that's the real deal and where you can really see why this is a severe problem! @rundll.exe get in 1st person get in crouch mode use fast forward / turbo / do sprint straight forward stop again (release fast forward / turbo) (same with 3rd) Quote[/b] ]First I dont get why this would be better for the transitions Transitions for walk and run are fine. For sprint they are horribly broken. Quote[/b] ]FPS that makes the difference FPS makes no difference for the animation system. It affects AI, ping / unit warping and mouse movement. My game is tweaked to the max. FPS is great all the time. FPS has no relation to the broken anims. Great reports with many details to be found here: CBTS 2809: Missing crouch-run to prone transition animation CBTS 2600: Missing animation transition from standing to full sprint CBTS 2053: Animations tweaks (read whispers great summary taken from the forum here) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchide 0 Posted November 4, 2007 Some things are true Q, there are some minor errors in transitions, but if you ask me there is nothing serious. If you play from 1st person you cant see transitions. Let me ask you something eaven if this thread is not about realism but for better gameplay as you writen down in your first post. When you sprint in real life how fast can you stop to 0, raise your weapon at same time and shoot? Remember you were sprinting. I know that Arma is game not RL. Do you have riffle at home? Put it to your shoulder and trie to aim at the same time when you walk in all directions. Go outside and trie to hit target on 50m walking sideways with the speed of Arma gun walking. Will you hit? And... Arma Is not made for CQB. There is no reall CQB in reall life. There is no fast running and shooting . If they do that they are dead. They shoot from allmost complete stop, CQB is based on squad tactic and not on running around, and bunnyhoping like in some games. BIS motioncaptured this animations. Im shure that actors didnt move in fastforward speed or slowforward like in your sample movies or on my videorecorder in my living room. I shure that they act ass close ass they could to copy reall life. If the gun was shaking there up,down,here,there than gun is shaking allso in animation wich i think is main reason for many deaths in MP. Why? Enemy wich is waithing you in room or narow hallway standing and aiming behind corner or office desk can shoot more precise than guy wich is coming to his position. If you want to improve this dead tactic, go ahead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andersson 285 Posted November 4, 2007 This is an interesting thread. Q, please dont give up your idea. I suppose there are people that want this changes. I just couldnt understand why until you wrote PvP "CQB". I suppose you are aiming for a faster paced, more fluent, gameplay? Also your impression that walk is basically useless made me understand that you and I are playing different games as I quite often use walk. I like the slow clumsy "human simulation". I know that in a RL fast paced dynamic shooting you can be very fast. But in a longer engagement with gear its different. And thats what I like to play.. I wrote this to see if I understand this right as it helps me understand why you want this. PS. I now understand this better also:  * Added PROPER Gameplay Weapon HandGrenadeTimed Explosion OnImpact  * Added PROPER Gameplay Weapon No Dexterity Totally wrong for me, but I suppose its needed for others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.Andersson(SWE) 4 Posted November 4, 2007 Well when i sprint i use w+d and press num*. That way he get tierd yes but dont stop sprinting..Untill he hits a small hill or steep dive or something.. Exploit maby but possible in game... WITHOUT CHEATS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3245 Posted November 4, 2007 Hopefully you guys do not have the impression that this thread aims to make you convert to this game style. We aim for more playable OFP like game as far as infantry combat is concerned (and other aspects - certain ones are improved by ArmA and we are glad about that). This game is modable for a reason. That people can modify the game to their vision and needs. Server admins (and leagues) have to decide whether they want these changes or not (verifySignatures system). andersson, my team is amongst the best ArmA PvP league teams in the world and has been back in OFP too for several years. Human vs human combat is different than human vs AI. Just make yourself aware how much you do "(ab)use" the game to win against AI ... ask yourself if that is realistic too. andersson, I am glad we agree that everyone is entitled to do / play when he prefers! The fatigue system of ArmA is great. However the anims system is way to complicated to fix the problems ourselves and BI won't do it for ArmA1 either. So we prefer a workaround rather than the current situation. This has some negative effects. Its about all about consideration. The walk system is great too, yet like written before, it is hardly used in PvP play as other options are much better and useful. The idea is to make walk again an important part of the overall system. This is not about run and gun or hexenkessel. If you haven't play in a top class league match on ECL or ESL maps, you most probably won't understand what I am talking about. If you are interested ... check it out yourself. Interestingly enough most people here try to enforce "realism" play as the sole goal to aim for ... with really "good" arguments. Quote[/b] ]Playable realism The slogan of WGL5 .. PS: Screenshots of ESL West Sahrani: Picture (at least check this one..) Picture Picture Picture Picture Picture Picture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBO_ 0 Posted November 4, 2007 Dont waste your energy explaining yourself Q. You have a proven record , keep up the good work and try not to divert your time to fanboys , some people get confused with realistic , real life , realism and playability:). Looking forward to the anims i can fully agree with your reasons for "tinkering". EDIT _answer andersson Quote[/b] ](OT, whats the definition of a fanboy?) fanboy would be a person who is blinded by loyalty to the point of denial . best described in this format , here is a dissapointed thread and most number of posts are from people who love arma ,yet feel compelled to denounce a problem as percieved by another. example people who posed in arma dissapointing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andersson 285 Posted November 4, 2007 I think its very good that Q explained himself. And it was a very good explanation. People tend to read everything from their own perspective (as I did first). Â When you truly understand what other people want and why, its much easier to be constructive. I play only SP and coop against AI (and I understand what you mean Q with "(ab)use" , I suppose its alot different against a thinking human being), and I play mostly recon so my gameplay, I suppose, its much more different. I like it slowpaced with navigation and planning (I would love it against humans though..). Anyway, thank you for the explanation and good luck! (OT, whats the definition of a fanboy?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Commando84 0 Posted November 4, 2007 hmm intresting read, yeah i wonder if Bi will patch the animations. Somehow i have gotten so used to Arma anims so i dont get to annoyed, just sometimes when i make a bad chopper landing or get killed unexpectedly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maddmatt 1 Posted November 4, 2007 ...example people who posed in arma dissapointing Holy crap I'm number 2 LOL well it shows that you can't use that thread as a way to prove that ArmA is a disappointment, since so many posts are defending it How many games actually have people defending them like that? Definitely not R6 Vegas, many flaming it and hardly anyone disagreed with them (on the PC section) Although I don't see why the 'fanboy' crap is happening here Calling someone a fanboy for disagreeing with you is pretty weak IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoRailgunner 0 Posted November 4, 2007 Q well nice idea for PvP and non-realism. Isn't it better to make an additional sprint transition? So you can run a few meters very fast with all advantages and handicaps eg. out of breath, unsure aiming and shooting, no infinite attempts etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rundll.exe 12 Posted November 4, 2007 Hopefully you guys do not have the impression that this threadaims to make you convert to this game style. ... PS: Screenshots of ESL West Sahrani: Picture (at least check this one..) Picture Picture Picture Picture Picture Picture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whisper 0 Posted November 5, 2007 When people create mods for Star Wars, Zombies & all, no one complains. When others want to tweak a lil bit movements toward something a very lil bit less reallistic, things go haywire.... Go figure.... It's about a mod. A ArmA MOD. Not something to change the core of the game and force the change upon everyone. Don't like it? Don't use it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
