ArmA is just ... disappointing

[bravo 6 0]

i have the feeling that when this ARMA game is acceptable for all these players (bugs fixed, performance, optimization etc), at that time GAME 2 comes out.. (again with lots of bugs to be fixed)

OR

GAME 2 will be delayed for a couple of years for sure, maybe (2012)

Just saying that this game will run as we (community) want in some years.. and it was already released seven months ago.

For seven months i don't have the same fun i used to had with OFP.

[Abbe 0]

Wow...Wittmann Ka-Tet, that must be the first post I consider pretty unfair regarding BIS efforts.

Code alterations is what is needed, what we are all waiting for...If it means changing some triggers compared to get the game stumbling forward, go BIS, go!

/Abbe

[bravo 6 0]

i kinda understand him..

I almost quit making missions for some time because of that same reason. There are also other performance reasons that denies me the action in editor (ATM).

[p54321 0]

yea its a pain in the behind

and as i said before i also agree about the choppers being unplayable i simply gave up flying them when i build a mission its with air support but no flying (leave it to the AI wich can handle it)

and i am repeating my rant about SF units they should be better then regular troops both in aim and movement (as they usually train harder and better)

maybe it could be simulated by making th SF units Grow less tired after running a distance and for player maybe set the weapons to not jerk so much while firing making the better shooters

[Second 0]

and i am repeating my rant about SF units they should be better then regular troops both in aim and movement (as they usually train harder and better)

Isn't skill-level for that I don't know does skilllevel affect to endurance but it (endurance) is adjustable by scriptcommands... Although about it's effects i'm not so sure: seems that they have effect or then not... I dunno for sure.

There's about eight or ten different skill-trade that can be scaled by scriptcommands, but like i said iäm not sure how, or do, they work.

[Lor 0]

I agree with Col.Flanders about the choppers. It is almost impossible to use FFAR's because if you are flying with the mouse and try to move the mouse to point your crosshairs at the target, that function just tilts the chopper on the axis, but doesn't point the aircraft. We already have tilt function with A and D buttons, what's the purpose of TWO tilting functions when there is no stearing function? This makes FFAR's so useless, especially if you are flying the plane!

Those sounds of broken words in the commands is absolutely rediculous! "move TO that tree at FIVE o'clock" sounds so lame! So much like a cheap answering machine. Also the commands are so loud, even when the AI is trying to sneak in as specail forces, you can hear them barking those commands from far away!

Sorry, but I have to (respectfully =D) disagree with regard to FFAR aiming difficulties. In order to turn the helicopter when in a hover you need to use the rudder (or tailrotor) control. Using the mouse would just bank the chopper which results in a turn only when at speed. You can't just use your mouse to point the chopper at the target, you need to combine the use of main rotor and tail rotor controls to orientate the chopper - and this process will be different depending on whether you are travelling at speed or hovering.

I think the choppers are modelled really quite well in ArmA. Just like in real life, you must control the attitude of the helicopter in three ways - the rudder, the pitch, and the yaw.

As for the broken words - they do sound a bit ridiculous, but there aren't many other games that do similar things much better. Even Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2 has only just incorporated dynamic AI voice. =)

[Luciano 0]

I agree with Col.Flanders about the choppers. It is almost impossible to use FFAR's because if you are flying with the mouse and try to move the mouse to point your crosshairs at the target, that function just tilts the chopper on the axis, but doesn't point the aircraft. We already have tilt function with A and D buttons, what's the purpose of TWO tilting functions when there is no stearing function? This makes FFAR's so useless, especially if you are flying the plane!

Those sounds of broken words in the commands is absolutely rediculous! "move TO that tree at FIVE o'clock" sounds so lame! So much like a cheap answering machine. Also the commands are so loud, even when the AI is trying to sneak in as specail forces, you can hear them barking those commands from far away!

Sorry, but I have to (respectfully =D) disagree with regard to FFAR aiming difficulties. In order to turn the helicopter when in a hover you need to use the rudder (or tailrotor) control. Using the mouse would just bank the chopper which results in a turn only when at speed. You can't just use your mouse to point the chopper at the target, you need to combine the use of main rotor and tail rotor controls to orientate the chopper - and this process will be different depending on whether you are travelling at speed or hovering.

I think the choppers are modelled really quite well in ArmA. Just like in real life, you must control the attitude of the helicopter in three ways - the rudder, the pitch, and the yaw.

As for the broken words - they do sound a bit ridiculous, but there aren't many other games that do similar things much better. Even Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2 has only just incorporated dynamic AI voice. =)

In other words, you need a joystick. Whats next, a steering wheel for driving?

Nobody would mind if this was a sim like IL2 Sturmovik, but this has land, air, and sea. Its ridiculous to change to a joystick everytime you fly then go back to mouse and keyboard when you get out. I rather not play than go through all that hassle.

OFP had it right in the sense that you didn't need a joystick only to fly good.

[4 IN 1 0]

i think "flying" in ArmA now is already easy enought

[Col.Flanders 0]

Lor, I hear what you're saying about the choppers. I've come to really enjoy flying them actually. My only problem is as I've said...the pedal effect or rather, lack thereof.

I use a joystick and it's set up next to me the whole time I play ArmA. Now, while it's harder to fly effectively using only the keyboard, it's still not impossible. I used to do it in OFP (numpad keys and my little finger and thumb controlling rudder with num_Enter and num_Ins.) Believe me though...get a joystick with a twist grip or some form of rudder control and you'll wonder why you never did before. It's worlds apart - and quite honestly, the way it's meant to be played. Add TrackIR to this equation and let's just say...you're in heaven.

Whoa! I think I should be in the 'ArmA is just...awesome' thread.

[NetWalker 0]

Chopper controls and AI are so BAD  

Why you just don't bring OFP's chopper controls back to ArmA? Port it! It's better than the crapy thing we curently have in ArmA. OFP was so good!!!!

Also, I can't believe that a game which is supposed to be a sequence has an AI which is much worse than its predecessor. OFP's AI isn't the best of the world, but it's better than ArmA's. That's what most annoys me, together with constant CTD's during MP after 25-30 minutes of play.

[wamingo 1]

Try set the Mouse Left/Right to Bank left/right instead of Turn left/right and it's actually excellent controls. If not I don't see how you could like ofp's in the first place.

[DVD 0]

Chopper controls and AI are so BAD

Why you just don't bring OFP's chopper controls back to ArmA? Port it! It's better than the crapy thing we curently have in ArmA. OFP was so good!!!!

Indeed.

[GenerationVII 0]

No physics, no ragdoll! If the game was optimazed and porgrammed to a level that was acceptable then physics could be easily implemented, they've been added to PS2 games with small amounts of ram on games with dozens of units - a PC with 1gig of ram could handle more more!

I'd like to add there's even a "PSP" game that uses a ragdoll engine "Killzone Liberation" has a ragdoll engine.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, what the hell is up with the ladder climbing animation? Well... what's up with the animations in general?

[Thomas Ryan 0]

Ugh, one of the main things that bothers me about ArmA is that I specifically wanted a Dual Core processor and I didn't figure the speed of it would really matter. So I got a good enough graphics card and 2GB of RAM, only to find out that ArmA makes more use of the CPU then it does the graphics card...

I'll be honest with you, my parents bought me this laptop for Christmas. They knew I wanted gaming power, so it contains:

Intel Duo Centrino T2500 @2.00GHz

2048MB RAM

nVIDIA GeForce Go 7600

Now, I'd think that's fairly good for a laptop. My hopes were high towards running ArmA at good settings, and those were crushed when I actually bought and installed the game. Instead, on the Normal preset, I get 20 frames per second. On STALKER, however, I can max out all options and get the same FPS...

And due to the fact they're parents, they won't let me upgrade for at least 2 years (which is pretty stupid considering DX10 gaming is just catching on, but they don't know that/care). So really, unless future patches really do fix ArmA's performance, I'll be stuck playing on 800x600 with shadows disabled in order to get 30 FPS... Some of you may not mind that, but 20 FPS on a Normal preset with a rig that exceeds the minimum specifications is just, well, not fair.

So for future patches, I really do hope BIS concentrates on performance and bug issues. So help me God if they add an useless new unit to "compensate" for not fixing the main problems with the game, I'll be quite annoyed, as will, probably, a large amount of the community.

[Lor 0]

In other words, you need a joystick. Whats next, a steering wheel for driving?

Nobody would mind if this was a sim like IL2 Sturmovik, but this has land, air, and sea. Its ridiculous to change to a joystick everytime you fly then go back to mouse and keyboard when you get out. I rather not play than go through all that hassle.

OFP had it right in the sense that you didn't need a joystick only to fly good.

No, I don't think you need a joystick.

I have a joystick, and I never use it for flying helicopters.

This is the way I bind it:

A, D - Yaw left and right

Mouse up, down - Pitch down, up (reversed, mouse moving forward pitches nose down)

Mouse left, right - Bank left and right.

So I fly using the mouse, except at a hover, when I use A and D to rotate the chopper left and right. It's a really natural way to control the choppers, and I love it.

Having said that, I do use my joystick for aircraft - and I think, as you mentioned, it's like OFP, you can fly aircraft with the mouse, but to fly well you need a joystick.

[gazmen 0]

Chopper controls and AI are so BAD  

Why you just don't bring OFP's chopper controls back to ArmA? Port it! It's better than the crapy thing we curently have in ArmA. OFP was so good!!!!

I just downloaded ancient simulation games made by JANE'S:

- Longbow 2

- USAF

- F/A-18

- F-15

And what is astonishing is the quality of joystick control with smooth movement, the ARMA one is to sensitive, a little mouvement of Joy and the plane goes to far... This is not control at all... The problem : deadzone & sensitivity of joystick is not configurable...

I tested Armored Fist 3 & M1a2 Tank Platoon 2 (just read those MANUAL and you will learn what is a real simulation. Since 2002 no editor has made such real kind of game).

And what is incredible in all of those game, is the targeting system (I.R, Wire, Laser), the fonctionnal M.F.D, the working integrated Computer Interface (with Gunner Auxiliary Sight & Gunner Primary Sight, the C.I.Thermal.Viewer & I.V.Information.System, the computer showing MAP, waypoint & even G.P.S view)

So for game who call it himself the Ultime SImulation, it's a bit disappointing...

- No AG or AA radar, No IR detector (Plane, chopper)

- No Jamming I.R [key I], jamming RADAR [key J], LASER & Electronic Scrambler for plane, chopper & tank

- No chaff (for Radar),

- No Flare (for IR)

- No Wire, Laser, IR guidance for gunner (tank, plane & chopper) [and even if they add LASER marking for Chopper or soldier there is no Sol Sol unit or somekind of COC_arty system to hit the marked target]

- No computer targeting interface in Tank & Chopper & Plane for the gunner

- No working M.F.D on official plane & chopper (showing way path, system info, weapon left, TADS/EOS, IHADSS, engine, radar, and such thing [these should had added in official ARMA plane & chopper, look at the perfect Franz AH64 in OFP, or the DKMM RAH66 & MI28])

- No thermal sight (goggle, scope) even electromagnical for the mine & other trap, or hided soldier.

- The panel of the air unit are useless, a lot of instrument are not fonctionnal (Airspeed Indicator, Barometric Altimeter,  Standby Compass, Mission Clock, Warning Light,

- No extension name for the two AV-8B (A.A, A.S [for C.A.S]), or the SU37 (A.A, A.T), to know what type of weapons they have.

Remarks :

A.A : For plane - 4x Aim-120 Amraam, Aim-9D sidewinder, Strela... (Air to Air)

A.G : For static position , Static, Vehicule, Static Building : Mk-8X,FAB, KAB, CBU, (Dumb Bomb) (Air to Ground)

A.S : For Strategic Building & Moving Tanks & Vehicule (GBU, Smart Bomb, Laser guided) (Air to Surface)

A.T : For Tanks & Armored AGM-88, AGM-120, AT-10... (Anti-Tank)

A lot of bug, crashing after 10 min of playing, same stranger A.I behaviour & reactivity than O.F.P, this game is realy disappointing for me...

I know that Addons maker can add a lot of new thing, but thermal & Electromagnetical sight ; AG/AA Radar & Scrambler ; Chaff, Flare & ECM ; Computer interface ; missile reactivity against those countermeasure (scrambler & chaff), should have been added directly in the core engine to be realy usefull.

So please don't call that a simulation (Jane's, Razoworks & Novalogic make simulation), call it the Ultimate Arcade game !

Read those manual

JANE'S FA18 (210 page)

JANE'S USAF (278 page)

JANE'S LONGBOW 2 (265 page)

M1A2 Tank Platoon 2 (161 page)

Look at ARMA manual (38 page waouh) so please don't call that a SUPREME SIMULATION (writed in my 505 version BOX)

[Marus 0]

You are right Gazmen, and because of the lag of simulation, BI should better search for a better helicopter control.

Quote[/b] ]OFP was so good!!!!

[hoot 0]

Gazmen what you want is simply an all-in-one device suitable for every purpose, and i find it somehow bloodcurdling to bring everything into a game, every single variable you have mentioned.

BIS called ArmA the ultimate combat simulator because ArmA simulates not only a single branch like all those games or sims do you have mentioned.

Blaming BIS for making the ultimate arcade game and calling Novalogic's Armored Fist an 'Tanksimulation' in the same breath, looks very funny, really. I was serving as a german Panzermann for some years pal and whatever Armored Fist wanted to be, it is an arcade game and not a sim, but that is just imho. Well..uhm...get SteelBeasts and see what a tanksim is.

You are also mixing some things up. The simulators that you have posted here are specialized in one single branch for their own, everyone incorporates land or air. ArmA on the other hand combines land, air and sea. Know what i want to say? Your expectations are far too high, you want an Earthsimulator but it's just a game and if you compare this to other products present on the market, you would probably see, that ArmA is the ultimate combat simulator, because it is combining almost every arm. So calling it arcade is just bitching for me, because you seem to have forgotten all the parts and things that ArmA is actually simulating.

What you did is an unfair comparison in my eyes and i don't mean the bugs, they are there, sad but true, but that's another story. I mean all the neat abbreviations you have highlighted.

BIS never told anyone that ArmA is the ultimate helosim, the ultimate flightsim, the ultimate tanksim, or the ultimate chain-of-command sim. They have printed 'the ultimate combat simulator' on the box and that's it: A combatsimulator that is not only illustrating one arm, but as many as possible. A whole crackling engagement.

Every clear-thinking gamer should know, that you have to cut back at some things you probably would find in more specialized simulators. Again, ArmA is simulating wars and conflicts, not only seen through the eyes of glorious pilots, with the smell of aftershave around them, but also seen through the eyes of the usual grunt and others, dying on the ground.

Fortunately, everybody got his own opinion and attitude. So this is mine. Btw, marketing means to exaggerate things

[leckig 0]

come on guys, we have to be reasonable in our complain/demands, you cannot expect BIS to make a good simulator of everything plus who would have the time to master they control of each detail simulated in each vehicle anyway...

Lets just concentrate on the bugs and some major missing features (I dont realy miss anything). I just want the bugs to be fixed and some little things changed. Someone mentioned that it takes very long to switch from bino to riffle and that makes sense, also, for some reason when you have the RPG out at least on my coumputer you moove sooooooo slowly it is hard to get a good aim on a fast moving tank, I remember that was on the OFP as well.

So stop demanding minor not very usefull features, someone mentioned he wants damage simulation on each weapon - this is going too far, we will much more benefit if the performance get fixed instead and the crashing.

OK, back to my breakfast.

[Shashman 0]

Gazmen what you want is simply an all-in-one device suitable for every purpose, and i find it somehow bloodcurdling to bring everything into a game, every single variable you have mentioned.

BIS called ArmA the ultimate combat simulator because ArmA simulates not only a single branch like all those games or sims do you have mentioned.

Blaming BIS for making the ultimate arcade game and calling Novalogic's Armored Fist an 'Tanksimulation' in the same breath, looks very funny, really. I was serving as a german Panzermann for some years pal and whatever Armored Fist wanted to be, it is an arcade game and not a sim, but that is just imho. Well..uhm...get SteelBeasts and see what a tanksim is.

You are also mixing some things up. The simulators that you have posted here are specialized in one single branch for their own, everyone incorporates land or air. ArmA on the other hand combines land, air and sea. Know what i want to say? Your expectations are far too high, you want an Earthsimulator but it's just a game and if you compare this to other products present on the market, you would probably see, that ArmA is the ultimate combat simulator, because it is combining almost every arm. So calling it arcade is just bitching for me, because you seem to have forgotten all the parts and things that ArmA is actually simulating.

What you did is an unfair comparison in my eyes and i don't mean the bugs, they are there, sad but true, but that's another story. I mean all the neat abbreviations you have highlighted.

BIS never told anyone that ArmA is the ultimate helosim, the ultimate flightsim, the ultimate tanksim, or the ultimate chain-of-command sim. They have printed 'the ultimate combat simulator' on the box and that's it: A combatsimulator that is not only illustrating one arm, but as many as possible. A whole crackling engagement.

Every clear-thinking gamer should know, that you have to cut back at some things you probably would find in more specialized simulators. Again, ArmA is simulating wars and conflicts, not only seen through the eyes of glorious pilots, with the smell of aftershave around them, but also seen through the eyes of the usual grunt and others, dying on the ground.

Fortunately, everybody got his own opinion and attitude. So this is mine. Btw, marketing means to exaggerate things

Totally agree with all your points.

Gazmen, you forgot to complain about the lack of cup holders in the 'Coyota' pickup

[froggyluv 2136]

Well said Hoot.

You articulated my sentiments exactly.

Which one of those 'sims' lets me command a sniper team to hide on a mountain ridge and engage the enemy from 1000m out at my command. Which one lets me send in spec. ops to sabotauge enemy armour and create a distraction before I send in my full assault. Which one lets me use any and every vehicle, weapon that I encounter including civilian. You show me the sim that does all of this with a kick-ass editor to add and I'll agree that OFP/Arma are not the champs of Total Combat Sims.

I don't see World Militaries training with the BF2; RB6 nor Janes engines, and i think they're a better judge of true-life combat situations than gamers on these forums

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Quote[/b] ]I just downloaded ancient simulation games made by JANE'S:

Ancient is the word that expressing the missing ability to copy parts of other simulation functionality that proved to be almost perfect.

It goes hand in hand with BIs inability to implement the ancient ability of other game engines to jump onto another moving item and move freely without using the strange proxies.

From time to time it is ok to steal from others.

[King Billy on Rat Patrol 0]

Ancient is the word that expressing the missing ability to copy parts of other simulation functionality that proved to be almost perfect.

It goes hand in hand with BIs inability to implement the ancient ability of other game engines to jump onto another moving item and move freely without using the strange proxies.

From time to time it is ok to steal from others.

Since when is choice an inability?

Money, Time, Size of Company, magnitude of the game. Choices need to be made, "jumping on moving items and being able to move freely" not implemented is probably a choice made...

The too early release of the game and the confirmation of Maruk in an interview on the question "What were the biggest problems while developping" .. Answer: "Money, money has always been a problem and that's also the reason why we had to Release the game (unfortunatly) in it's fragile state"

Who knows, you might find such feature inside a future patch. Calling everything not implement an inability of BIS is rather shortsighted imo.

I don't really get a stiffy from jumping on moving items, do you?

I'm personally a lot more happy with other changes.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

@King Billy on Rat Patrol: You do not understand that this is an example for a basic enabler in the engine simply missing. It is like discussing if a car should have wheels or not.

This basic feature is the reason why you can not:

- have moving carriers where copters, persons, planes moving

- you need to specify proxies if you want to sit on a tank

- you can not simply jump into a boat

- you can not fire from/out of any vehicle

- Copters can not load vehicles just like that (workaround deletvehicle when loading, createvehicle when unload)

There are some workarounds with odd side effects in MP.

I hope they will find the money to make it part of Game2.

The problem with this example is that you must properly simulate collision + inertia + drag to be able to jump onto any moving thing.

If money is an issue they should tell us honestly before they sell.

I stated several times that I am open to pay an annual fee for game + support.

[leckig 0]

the amazing thing is that I am sure if they open "donate to support ArmA" website many and I mena it many people would actually dontate! This is something not very common in the game industry for sure