Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures for ArmA

[walker 0]

Hi Celery

I am talking about PvP. Real PvP not some CS minimap. Something where you have to learn to navigate and think about how you set up your squad in advance to contact drills; or do bounding over-watch; or retreating from a superior enemy force behind a ridge to a reverse slope defense, so you can catch your enemy as they skyline themselves and with the armors belly presented and their guns unable to bear. I am talking about using all the tools of ArmA and OFP from infantry to tanks to airplanes performing CAS, to artillery laying down a cloud of WP to medics dealing with casualties that are bleeding to death and blacking out.

I am talking about realistic battles not some CS style CTF paintball unlimited re-spawn. They are fun little dainty games for half an hour but ArmA is far more fun than that because it is so big.

Kind Regards walker

[AWDrift 0]

You can apply real tactics to the game and be effective.

You can also just kill like crazy using tactics made specificaly for a game enviorment and be just as effective.

I feel the same with RO. You've got the tools for realistic gameplay there, but without a clan there's not much motivation to use them.

[4 IN 1 0]

it makes me feel that he is just 1 sad man who couldnt hock up with a correctly made COOP map(which is, well, everywhere), for christ sakes even the good old Desert Ambush with BAS addon would kick some sorryass when you done right

1:Hold fire

2:wait for the mine first!

3:cannot fire

4:12 O'clock, enemy, soldier, 300

1:Hold Fire

5:wait for the convoy to pass through the mine first!

*BANG BANG BANG*

1:WTF I SAID HOLD YOUR F___IN FIRE!!!

and this is how you DO IT WRONG

[Gaizokubanou 0]

I don't get all these hostilities toward Celery's points.  I think his last post pretty much sums it up, that unless the topic specifies that this is about certain pvp game type, his opinions on CTF/TD/DM have a point here that those tactics don't work in certain game modes.  You guys could have simply stated that it works in different scenarios rather than bashing CTF/TD/DM.

Quote[/b] ]

Real PvP not some CS minimap.

I don't get it.  Why doesn't CS qualify as "real" PvP?  If one plays CS they don't qualify as humans or something?

Edit: hmm maybe his first post crossed the line.

[kid 0]

A lot of these CTF maps (that I have played) are similar to CS in one way, the size of the map. It's not that people hate CS (well, many do, but that is not an argument) it's that the dynamics of a small map are completely different.

In CS and in these CTF maps camping becomes crucial. Behind every sandbag, around every corner, especially in ARmA where the static defender has such a large advantage. Similarly in a map with 4 avenues of attack it is common sense to control them all, which probably means leaving teams of 2 at 3 of them, and pushing hard down one or two of them (maybe leaving a reserve).

This has nothing to do with RL, and (in my mind) it's a waste of the scope and potential of ArmA. The world is a big place, soldiers don't just sit watching a random road because people might pop up, not unless they have some intel regarding that section.

Attacking a town where it is quite impossible to cover every entry will reveal the need for such tactics as are in this guide, and the ensuing battle of retreating/manoeuvring squads and the reinforcements will show an aspect that is ArmA's alone, that of the large scale battle.

This is also the reason why (where I play at least) we are 100x more effective as an organised squad. People do rambo all the time, but by and large they don't take their time, they don't cover each corner, they just move as fast as they can to the action, and start firing. Sometimes that works, but most often they get ambushed by the AI, or we take them out in transit in PvP. No planning, nor organisation, leads to a quick death in battles of a large scale

[Rustman 0]

CTF only happens to be one of the ultimate tests of teamwork, even in the real army.

No...it isn't.

[txalin 2]

Dslyecxi, can we translate it to spanish or is copyrighted or something like that?

[4 IN 1 0]

same with a chinese version i wish, orthrough the workload would be too much for me and i have no idea that if would ever do it

[dslyecxi 23]

If you'd like to translate it to another language, PM me and we'll work something out.

[4 IN 1 0]

in coop sometime you dont even need to tell or ask someone to buddy up and preform covering manoeuvr, i offent find myself buddy up with someone i have no idea who he is, only the lack of communication would kill it off(my mom will jump me if i use TS2 or VOIP in ArmA in midnight)

thats why i think the communication part is one of the most important part in the guide

and with the love of god i wish the VOIP in ArmA is working

[Maddmatt 1]

and with the love of god i wish the VOIP in ArmA is working

The Beta patch changelog said a problem with VOIP and NAT firewalls saw solved, so in 1.06 things will be fine I hope.

Currently Teamspeak is a decent solution, though I would prefer the in-game VOIP to work all the time. I have heard the in-game VOIP working before, it's just that it has some problems that will hopefully be sorted out in the next patch.

ArmA is meant to simulated large battles over large areas, just look at the size of Sahrani. PvP or coop, I don't see why people seem to only like one. They can both be great fun. Proper tactics work, except maybe in corridor maps like Hexenkessel and the DM maps. The 'rambo' players don't last long in my experience, they are nothing but targets to a coordinated team.

If you are not using some kind of VOIP, either in-game or TS, then you don't really count as coordinated. You can't work together properly if your only way to communicate is text.

[Second 0]

CTF only happens to be one of the ultimate tests of teamwork, even in the real army.

No...it isn't.

Confirm that. Boyscouts might be using it. But armies uses bit more preciser ways... They are not expected to play capture the flag in warzone.

Ofcourse i don't know what all armies in world use as trainingmethods... Maybe someone uses capture the flag too? But is it for cohesion building training or tactical training?

[Rustman 0]

CTF only happens to be one of the ultimate tests of teamwork, even in the real army.

No...it isn't.

Confirm that. Boyscouts might be using it. But armies uses bit more preciser ways... They are not expected to play capture the flag in warzone.

Ofcourse i don't know what all armies in world use as trainingmethods... Maybe someone uses capture the flag too? But is it for cohesion building training or tactical training?

exactly..just as a disclaimer, I only have the experience of having served in only one country's army...and I've only worked with the armies of a couple of other countries..but neither us nor the millitaries I've worked with have used CTF as a training tool. It is definitely fun...it's great for cohesion and morale building...but I wouldn't say that we could get any type tactical training value out of it.

[4 IN 1 0]

CTF, hum, maybe in.......Starship Troopers?

really i cant think of a single reason that CTF relates on RL tactics....

[celery 8]

Don't you have anything better to do than stay offtopic? CTF might not utilize the best bits of ArmA which are cheating AI and unrealistic armor modeling, but why continue stating the obvious? It's always the "tactical" and "mature" gamer starting trouble when they just can't respect the opinions of their more action oriented brothers. The "Rambo" you keep bringing up may not be familiar with how an island-wide war works in your clan, but you will be just as screwed in Rambo's own game mode wondering how your neat SWAT formation always catches death, so this thing brings us nowhere. If you really think that Hexenkessel is the epitome of CTF, have a look at real CTF maps like the Gc maps by Frantic. That is if CTF is not too common for your noble "tactical" minds.

Still feel like going offtopic or are we going back on subject (which is, do real life tactics/formations work in ArmA)?

[mads bahrt 0]

But as I have said before, the "Rambos" jump in a jeep drive right into town amongst the enemy and chew them to peices, perhaps or perhaps not dieing in the process.

Obviously not a real world tactic.

It actually is a proven real-world tactic. It is pretty much what the Long Range Desert Group (a forerunner of SAS) did to german/italian airfields in North Africa. And it is one of the tactics that the landrover-mounted SAS-patrols searching for Scuds in Iraq in 1991 used again with some succes.

I think the tactic has it's merits in situations where an attack is unexpected the terrain is too open for infantry to get close to the target and the attack depends on being hit-and-run-style to succeed.

[Rhodite 3]

Indeed lets keep our focus on the thread topic "Real Life Tactics/formations etc "

This isn't a thread for or about bashing pvp styles of play.

Thanks

[nyles 11]

Awesome work, Dslyecxi!

There are many things in your article that I have experienced first hand when playing with my clan and some familiars like Kevb0 (who you should know) and also when playing with the guys from Kyllikki.

I can really suggest that every serious coop player should take a close look at this arcticle. The more people read it, the more likely it is to get a decent coop session running even on public servers, if people grasp the idea of playing in the interest of the team with the initiative being with the individual players, who actively seek out to play in a team and for the team.

I noticed certain units in some of your screenshots (that were not marked for VBS2), which are not part of Armed Assault. Most noticeably the AAV, new US special forces helmets and USMC infantry. Were these fan-made addons or can we expect these units to be part of ArmA: Combat Operations, like the A10? Especially the AAV confused me as it was the only unknown vehicle when you listed the different types of vehicles on the last page of that article.

Keep up the good work!

[walker 0]

Hi all

Translating this is excelent news.

ArmA is the only game we can get this degree of realism in that you can use proper tactics, techniques and procedures. This sure is a nice present for all the American cousins that wil be joining us in a couple of days.

Kind Regards walker

[Commando84 0]

i played all kinds of arma missions both official and unofficial and some of my home built stuff and others fine works and i play mostly mp or test coops in the editor but the key is usually team work hardcore! BUT sometimes in certain situations its best to run o the nearest building or shelter and take cover and leave the a.i's to their fate instead of moving in a tactical formation really slowly. Also in some momements in a fight its better to shoot first and then tell you saw a enemy, especially if the enemy has his guns pointed towards any member of your team.

Also sometimes using unrealistic tactics from movies or so can work wonders like trying to escape a enemy and then you take a car and drive away in real call of duty 2 style and all kinds of ammo flying past your head but you get away fast. Group link a.i script is the greatest a.i script for arma so far i've seen. I know some stuff arent perfect in the game but i think whats there and what the community can make of it is a good compromise after all its only a game.

but with that said i love helping people out also like driving them around and flying blackhawk to drop people off or so, but i wass much better in ofp than arma so im not as good as logistics dude as i was in ofp cti but with more training i will be good again at flying my favourite chopper again.

[mattxr 9]

Id like to thank Dslyecxi loads for these tactics becuase one for our CAN [Combind ArmA Nights ] big coop.

but also our TEN nights [ Team Engagement Nights ] which are Attack and Defend and when our clan splits into two groups these tactics will defo come into play becuase its then like your facing a real enemy so PvP does come into the question. It will make it harder for both teams

[lilwillie 47]

I would always prefer to use real tactics in Arma over CS style of gameplay.

RL works very well for me personally and for the guys in the Regiment. The CS player will say they can Rambo the guys all squaded up and using tactics. However the Rambo's may cut down one or two but the squad will know and act accordingly. The Rambo may also not realize that the squad just called in his death and know where the Rambo is now. Without support, no one observing for him. A lack of air support to get him out of the hot zone. No mechanized there to bring fire down to cover his withdrawal, the Rambo dies.

Granted, my example above is when your playing on a realistic style of map. No respawns.

A respawn map the CS style player may be able to level the playing field up some using CS style tactics that are basically guerilla warfare style. Hit and runs, Sniping, ambushes and quick withdrawals but in the end the time is limited. With the RL tactical squad looking for patterns, setting up their own ambushes and possibly having troops on the field specific to hunting down the CS player. As the objectives are cleared and taken by the squad the CS has his own sniper to worry about but that sniper is working in unison with a squad and both assist each other.

If all the CS players and RL players are on their respected comms I think over time the lack of coordination on the CS side would lead to their defeat. The numbers may be equal to kills and deaths in the field but I would want to believe the RL would work better to win outright threw superior tactics, firepower and cooridination.

To go back to my mention of guerilla sytle tactics used by the CS player. That makes them using real life tactics doesn't it? So in reality both styles of play are using real life tactics in Arma when the map is a realistic style map. When the map is a DM or CTF and not realistic both are still using real life tactics. Real life because ArmA is built to be a sim. Not a bunny hopper where you have a health bar and can carry 15 styles of weapons.

[OrLoK 20]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (orlok @ April 28 2007,17:22)

But as I have said before, the "Rambos" jump in a jeep drive right into town amongst the enemy and chew them to peices, perhaps or perhaps not dieing in the process.

Obviously not a real world tactic.

It actually is a proven real-world tactic. It is pretty much what the Long Range Desert Group (a forerunner of SAS) did to german/italian airfields in North Africa. And it is one of the tactics that the landrover-mounted SAS-patrols searching for Scuds in Iraq in 1991 used again with some succes.

Hello,

You are of course, completely right. Dunno how i missed the parralells. The pink panther withe the dual lewis guns,which they used a bit is a personal fav of mine.

But ok, if this is used as an organised tactical strike by a squad, with a descent risk analysis considered,then i too think its viable.

But, im sure we've all seen the kinda random example i ment. Ill try and think of a better one next time!

Slightly OT and not meaning to insult anyone, but why with other engines being suited far more to that style, do people play cqb ctf/dm in Arma? i can understand large scale pvp/cdf/dm etc but isnt arma too clunky?

If i want a fast paced style thang ill reinstall bf.

Again,this is a query not aflame, i would like to know!

rgds

lok

ps scuse spelling etc, but im doing this from me phone.

[celery 8]

If all the CS players and RL players are on their respected comms I think over time the lack of coordination on the CS side would lead to their defeat. The numbers may be equal to kills and deaths in the field but I would want to believe the RL would work better to win outright threw superior tactics, firepower and cooridination.

To go back to my mention of guerilla sytle tactics used by the CS player. That makes them using real life tactics doesn't it? So in reality both styles of play are using real life tactics in Arma when the map is a realistic style map. When the map is a DM or CTF and not realistic both are still using real life tactics. Real life because ArmA is built to be a sim. Not a bunny hopper where you have a health bar and can carry 15 styles of weapons.

With "CS" are you referring to the average CTF team? If so, they are for from a disorganized horde with no coordination. You are implying that they don't use proper tactics, but they do. It's the case of real life tactics and techniques that don't apply so often in a tight packed combat situation against other human players. Why else would the "CS" players dominate the CTF games they are specialized in?

If there is a CTF squad that uses stuff straight from a real life CQB manual as opposed to intuitive gameplay and teamwork, I would like to know the name of the clan and how well they are doing in their clan wars and leagues overall. Right now the teams that are doing well in CTF competitions are the ones that rely on fluid teamwork and individual expertise over strict military rules.

About the part where the CTF and DM players are using real life tactics, you are mixing carefully thought out maneuvers with common sense, normal teamwork and intuition. It's simple math that you die less with more cover and reloading when you're safe. CQB formations and suppressive fire are effective in theory but not in practise when it comes to those game modes. Of course some things work but to quote Obi-Wan: "only the Sith deal in absolutes".

[-Puma- 2]

I think he meant CS= counterstrike???