Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures for ArmA

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

lol Celery, it was a joke, you take all that to serious.

It is an idiotic tactic I use on BerZerk map since there is RESPAWN.

I never said respawn exists in RL ... well, it does according to some religions :-)

You should play Evolution 1.5 and higher, they have respawn, but you can try to avoid using it.

Then you should wait for the LOL clowns in US, they made nice maps based on BAS addons for OFP where you really could train basic tactics with the clowns - unfortunately only vs stupid AIs.

If you want to give you as much as possible RL - join a league where the play without spawn, I do not know how BCL missions working but try there.

[4 IN 1 0]

Dslyexci, i sent you a pm regarding the translation a few days ago, any news?  

We are just waiting for you answer to start....  

may be he missed it? i got my reply very soon and the man at the chiness site have already started cracking it, maybe you could send him another PM?

p.s. LOL clowns are in UK

[celery 8]

lol Celery, it was a joke, you take all that to serious.

It is an idiotic tactic I use on BerZerk map since there is RESPAWN.

I never said respawn exists in RL ... well, it does according to some religions :-)

You should play Evolution 1.5 and higher, they have respawn, but you can try to avoid using it.

Then you should wait for the LOL clowns in US, they made nice maps based on BAS addons for OFP where you really could train basic tactics with the clowns - unfortunately only vs stupid AIs.

If you want to give you as much as possible RL - join a league where the play without spawn, I do not know how BCL missions working but try there.

It's better to be sure since this thread has a "serious" tone to it. I've played both Berzerk and Evolution, but the mechanics are a bit weird. I can see why the latter is addictive, but it all comes down to that the enemy is just a static and code-driven computer that doesn't care which way you kill them.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Celery and INNOCENT&CLUELESS the suicide attack is not based on the economics.

The cost of your chopper bombing both its value as a weapon platform and your own avatars life is zero to you at the moment you choose to chopper bomb. Talking about it as if it has the value it has in the real world is just a red herring.

Even in reality the helicopter to the suicide attacker has no value.

Kamikaze acts cost the Japanese far more in lost pilots than it gained them in ships sunk. People particularly generals often underestimate the value of a human life. Which is more expensive the trained pilot of the aircraft? You might be surprised to find out the pilot cost more in real monetary terms.

Talking about the activities you do before the chopper bombing is another red herring; you state of mind at the moment you choose to chopper bomb is the only one that matters.

Choosing to go Rambo is the same. It is the "Forlorn Hope" once again. It is a sign of rage against impotence. People in the main do it when they have little hope.

The suicide bomber in real world TTP actually breaks down into two factors: the individual act and the tactical application. Considered as an individual act it is mainly revenge and maybe programming consider Waco and Al Qaeda promises of an afterlife or nihilism the acts of the various mass killing suicides such as Columbine and more recently at Virgina Tec;

Very, very, very rarely it is a conscious act of reasoned bravery where the person who commits the act knows there is no afterlife seeing it as a reasoned sacrifice. Clearly no act in OFP or ArmA or any simulation can mimic that.

Most commonly the suicide attack is the the tactical application of suicide programming: Al Qaeda, Waco and the Japanese Kamikaze program suicide attackers usually by the promise of the afterlife; in the US now and the past, extremist Christians are being programmed with the rapturist programming technique eg. Waco which is the same as the virgins promise to Al Qaeda suicide bombers. This is how the leaders of such organizations acquire such an asymmetric tactical weapon. It is the low tec equivalent of the cruise missile, whether flying a passenger jet into buildings, driving a car into market or strapping a suicide belt to yourself to take out a checkpoint.

But defenses to them exist checkpoints can be hardened and bomb detectors fitted. Private cars and trucks can be prevented from moving into high pedestrian environments. Airplane cabin doors reinforced.

Of course it is the commander that should see the true economic value the attack. Clearly the persons who command the suicide attack see human life as having no value. Ditto the suicide's training. Ditto the suicide's equipment. Usually such a commander is wrong.

Capture the Flag (CTF) and Death-matches (DM) promote the same psychology owing to their reliance on respawn. The value of virtual life is reduced to the promise of a virtual afterlife in the next respawn; it is one of the many reasons people like them less than C&H or coop or PvP coop. Player life reduced to the same value as an AI bot.

It is one of the reasons the military prefer VBS for training over other engines. In ArmA/OFP player life has a much higher value and is more easily lost than in other game engines.

Edit corrected typos

Kind Regards walker

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]Capture the Flag (CTF) and Deathmatches (DM) promote the same psychology owing to their reliance on respawn. The value of virtual life is reduced to the promise of a virtual afterlife in the next respawn; it is one of the many reasons people like them less than C&H or coop or PvP coop. Player life reduced to the same value as and AI bot.

That is one of the most interesting ways to explain the disregard for life and limb of CTF/DM/etc that I've heard in awhile.

[celery 8]

Yes walker, every tactic is a real life tactic, afterall it's just how you classify it in your own head. It just leaves me to wonder what you're trying to achieve with your long posts since you can just say what you think straight on. If you want my point of view about real life tactics, think of it as What would the western military do vs what would a gamer do. I'm aware that they intersect, they are not complete opposites, and that China might have different tactics and that Arabs are even more different, but what do the sides of Armed Assault look like to you?

On a lighter note, how often is a gunship used as a flying bomb?

[walker 0]

Hi Celery

TTP and the doctrine of different armies is an extremely complex matter.

Dslyecxi's article:

http://dslyecxi.com/armattp.html

and its application to ArmA which actually triggered this debate points out one thesis on it.

We can and should look at Sun Tzu and Carl Philipp Gottfried von Clausewitz the works of Julius Caesar, Belisarius and Napoleon or the writings of Heinz Guderian and John Frederick Charles Fuller or Rommel's "Infantry Attacks" and latter his unfinished "The Tank In Attack"

We should consider famous battles of history such as Pickett's Charge, Alexander with The Battle at Issus and Battle of Gaugamela, or Georgiy Zhukov and the battle of the Kursk salient, and the great Hannibal need we mention more than Cannae?

In ArmA perhaps small force engagements such as: the Taking of the fortress at Eben Emael,  Pegasus Bridge and the Brécourt Manor Assault are more relevant, but I would argue the giant battles are just as relevant.

That others such as yourself Celery, INNOCENT&CLUELESS and orlok put forward an anti-thesis to Dslyecxi's work is surely the purpose of a forum.

The fact we are discussing these matters is what is of most value to the ArmA community.

Kind Regards walker

[dslyecxi 23]

Put this in the video section already, but I think it's appropriate to post it here as well.

Quote[/b] ]ShackTac had its first MP ArmA session on Saturday, and this is some footage from it. This particular mission involved ~40 human players, organized into three squads, fighting against ~250 AI opfor utilizing various enhanced AI group behavior scripts. It was a hell of a lot of fun.

Short Sample Clip

High-Quality Downloadable Version

Low-Quality Google Video Version

The footage starts about 15 seconds after I took this screen:

It was somewhat rough as a first session (had crashing issues, for one), but aside from the issues that were out of our control, it was pretty neat. I'm really looking forward to seeing what things are like in a few months once everything has had a chance to settle, and especially once ACE and CoC's stuff starts getting released.

[Scrub 0]

Very nice.  I've been on the ~3rdinf~ Reality server, and can appreciate good doctrine.  When the COC comes out with their CE, I think I'll love the WARS that will be fought.  You military types can whip the resources around like a blade.  

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Very nice one. Good to see tactical movement and not uncontrolled kamikaze actions.

Could it be that wooden fences were the real enemies :-)

And nice that you scripted machorka-smoking Russians! Or should the white smoke simulate smoke grenades?

[frederf 0]

Just a funny story to pass the time.

4 of us 4IB guys were playing a regular blow-off-steam coop and our leader orders us jokingly to "Team, form blob!" and guess what?

We form a perfect (and I mean perfect) fireteam wedge formation. We disobeyed orders! I mean, down to the buddy team placement according to weapons and everything... I think we have an illness.

[G_H_Play_AKA_BOSS 0]

Very nice dude i like it.