Vilas' addons

[vilas 477]

completly new models of AKM/AK74 family on my HD, also PKMS, PK (in game there is PKM) and i hope to get new good textures to this AK family

in few days i hope all on server

there is a proof

ammobox position changed in final, here in tripod

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Never mind, solved. Could a mod delete this post please?

[Shadow NX 1]

Do i see that right and the PKM and the AKSU a page back are edited ArmA models ( by using DX ripper i guess? ) if yes shouldnt we get a word from the devs first if they allow ripping and editing their models?

I asked Suma about it ( and something else ) and he just answered my second question and not the question about ripping their models so id think they are no fans of it.

If these are all custom made models then forget i even said something but they look pretty close to the ArmA ones.

[sickboy 13]

completly new models of AKM/AK74 family on my HD, also PKMS, PK (in game there is PKM) and i hope to get new good textures to this AK family

in few days i hope all on server

there is a proof

ammobox position changed in final, here in tripod

Totally awesome Vilas... now some scripts that we can carry the tripod on back and deploy it etc...

Got plans for that or someone else?

[vilas 477]

heh, so when i will se tools ?

riping or not, people sometimes were saying my weapons have poor textures even if i use BIS textures but without HDR maps implemented,

BIS models are less detailed than mine , but don't afraid new AK74 that will come will have new corpuss/receiver made from scratch be made in oxygen by me, much more detailed shape than now in my or BIS models

BIS gave us in 1.07 new weapons as AKS74U, you know, with tools it is one minute for me, open SVD, copy PSO1, open AK74 paste PSO, save, open AKS74U, copy stock, open AK74 with pso, delete wood stock, paste metal stock from AKS74U, such addon i made in some seconds

in expansion i saw pickup with PK mounted, so what is wrong in putting PK on tripod

and BIS gave T72 DShK, as far as i know DShK were mounted on T55 only, on T72 there was NSV, so what wrong if i will made real T72 with NSVT ?

i know there is at least one MOD which has tools, why other one can't use mesh ?

geometry, memory, all i have to do by myself,

[sickboy 13]

BIS gave us in 1.07 new weapons as AKS74U, you know, with tools it is one minute for me, open SVD, copy PSO1, open AK74 paste PSO, save, open AKS74U, copy stock, open AK74 with pso, delete wood stoc, paste metal stock from AKS74U, such addon i made in some seconds

in expansion i saw pickup with PK mounted, so what is wrong in putting PK on tripod

and BIS gave T72 DShK, as far as i know DShK were mounted on T55 only, on T72 there was NSV, so what wrong if i will made real T72 with NSVT ?

i know there is one MOD which has tools, why other one can't use mesh ?

geometry, memory, all i have to do by myself,

Altough I also believe that it would be stupid for a highly modable game to not allow it's own models to either be edited or used otherwise WITHIN the same game.

Still the models are property of Bohemia Interactive, so Shadow NX throws up a valid concern.

A betatest team for modtools might have or might not have the permission to edit BIS models and release them to the public.

I don't know for certain and I don't think you either, so in that case Shadow NX is right that it could be a good idea to check it with BIS before releasing edited BIS models.

Like I said in beginning, I would find it stupid/weird if BIS would not allow it, but in the end of the day, it is their property ;D

[vilas 477]

making such model of PK is not hard job for me, just waste of time on texturing, of course i can do it in some hours or less, but as you see from answer not fans of it :/

and than those who have tools will release tehir mods and say "look how fantastic is our work" and "look how vilas models are poor"

okay , so we give one man Barrett, other man 200 m away on desert old pistol and we say "show who is best" ?

guess who will win ?

i can release other PK, but in OFP players started addonmaking from remoddeling old AK47 to AKMS, and M21 to M14 by removing scope, but with OFP demo there came MLOD models editable !

and why the hell is T72 with DShK, for me it is annoying, because i care for realism, SLA has Su34, Ka50 and T72 with worst mg ever (in Poland even on some T55 army replaced DShK because it was inacurate weapon)

and why there is only 2 SLA models of soldier with shovel and bag? US troops have model for mgunner with big pouches,

i would like to give gunners big pouches and etc.

[Törni 0]

Well if it is not allowed how about all those soldier re-textures that seem to be the most numerous of all mods? The models and animations are all from the ArmA.

[dm 9]

Ok, I'll repeat myself again:

Just like it was for OFP, the ArmA version of O2 is HIGHLY unlikely to be able to open the ArmA ODOL format models. So we'll be in exactly the same position we were for OFP - with tools, but unable to open the BI models until someone in the community writes a 3rd party tool for it.

[sickboy 13]

I'm sorry Vilas, but because you don't like something, does not put you above the law or company policy.

You should try that in reallife, you dont like it that you may only drive 120km/hour on roads, and you drive 200km/hour everywhere.

Not long before you will be pulled off the road and possibly license revoked

Ergo: No matter what your reasons are; Don't like this, dont believe in that, that's not realistic, this that, bla bla bla.... if something is not allowed, it is not allowed

Anyway, like I wrote, I don't think it's an issue as the past has shown edits out there (As Törni replies), but never the less I think it was a valid concern to bring up for Shadow NX.

[Skaven 0]

I have to wright something since I'm liking this conversation a lot  

Quote[/b] ]Ergo: No matter what your reasons are; Don't like this, dont believe in that, that's not realistic, this that, bla bla bla....   if something is not allowed, it is not allowed

Indeed but... don't forget that laws are different from country to country and... I would say that in some good 50% of the world this isn't a crime  

I don't know the reality today but not many time ago (1 or 2 years) for example Croatia and Slovenia dindn't have any laws against piracy or even against this sort of copyrighted material  

[sickboy 13]

I have to wright something since I'm liking this conversation a lot

Quote[/b] ]Ergo: No matter what your reasons are; Don't like this, dont believe in that, that's not realistic, this that, bla bla bla.... if something is not allowed, it is not allowed

Indeed but... don't forget that laws are different from country to country and... I would say that in some good 50% of the world this isn't a crime

I don't know the reality today but not many time ago (1 or 2 years) for example Croatia and Slovenia dindn't have any laws against piracy or even against this sort of copyrighted material

Hmm good points :-)

So even though the product is built in a certain company with certain laws, it might be impossible to prosecute someone in a country that has no copyright laws etc..

Which would also mean that a publisher should evaluate where he sells his products as when a country does not have such laws, they could/should choose not to export it there, right?

Never really thought about that, but that are interesting issues.

[Skaven 0]

Quote[/b] ]Which would also mean that a publisher should evaluate where he sells his products as when a country does not have such laws, they could/should choose not to export it there, right?

Yes, and that happens today, the problem is that you can always buy the game at eBay and import it

As I said before, I don't know the reality today, but some time ago lots of pirates imigrated to Croatia because they just couldn't be touched there

For example when I read copyrighted stuff to me it's like if I touch it I'm in trouble for most when they see the copyrighted material it makes no difference at all since they don't have those laws and they don't even recognize them.

But this is nothing compared to banking, some banks demand to know where you got your money from, and than again in 50% of the world they don't care at all, and yes this compared to copyright is a big big problem

[vilas 477]

so according to the Polish law, i have right to one copy of disc in case if orginal software disc is broken

but ARMA disc even best copied not works, so if i will have little scratch on disc, my game will not launch, it is against Polish Law (using such copy protection)

normally i can use copy disc to start game and orginal disc in box to avoid any single scratch

also in some coutries advertisment which is not true is crime

so if on box of game there is stated "total military realism" and "most realistic battlefield simulating system" and in book, and in game you can kill M113 using M249, destroy car shooting in its doors, or kill man shooting in his hand , where is realism stated on box, thing that is stated on box is statement of company to the customer, what with it ?

[dm 9]

I have to wright something since I'm liking this conversation a lot

Quote[/b] ]Ergo: No matter what your reasons are; Don't like this, dont believe in that, that's not realistic, this that, bla bla bla.... if something is not allowed, it is not allowed

Indeed but... don't forget that laws are different from country to country and... I would say that in some good 50% of the world this isn't a crime

I don't know the reality today but not many time ago (1 or 2 years) for example Croatia and Slovenia dindn't have any laws against piracy or even against this sort of copyrighted material

Hmm good points :-)

So even though the product is built in a certain company with certain laws, it might be impossible to prosecute someone in a country that has no copyright laws etc..

Which would also mean that a publisher should evaluate where he sells his products as when a country does not have such laws, they could/should choose not to export it there, right?

Never really thought about that, but that are interesting issues.

International Copyright laws trump local laws in these cases - Rockape is a good person to ask for a real world example on that (IIRC).

[sickboy 13]

so according to the Polish law, i have right to one copy of disc in case if orginal software disc is broken

but ARMA disc even best copied not works, so if i will have little scratch on disc, my game will not launch, it is against Polish Law (using such copy protection)

normally i can use copy disc to start game and orginal disc in box to avoid any single scratch

also in some coutries advertisment which is not true is crime

so if on box of game there is stated "total military realism" and "most realistic battlefield simulating system" and in book, and in game you can kill M113 using M249, destroy car shooting in its doors, or kill man shooting in his hand , where is realism stated on box, thing that is stated on box is statement of company to the customer, what with it ?

I really don't like how you must always involve everything else.

If you don't agree with how things are, I would recommend you becoming a politician or another kind of position to change policies and how things are.

If everyone would take the law in own hands, at least thats how I describe your "Well they do this, so I do that", then the world would be a complete mess imho.

[Skaven 0]

Major Fubar is gonna kill me this is tottaly off topic but... oh well  

Quote[/b] ]so if on box of game there is stated "total military realism" and "most realistic battlefield simulating system" and in book, and in game you can kill M113 using M249, destroy car shooting in its doors, or kill man shooting in his hand , where is realism stated on box, thing that is stated on box is statement of company to the customer, what with it ?

That's called fake publicity, and it's a tottaly different matter and today it happens a lot on TV publicity  

For example in Portugal we have a commercial from a drink called "Red Bull" that puts a man flying after drinking it and than it says that "Red Bull" gives you wings.  

I mean... publicity today is extremely exagerated and... although it's not real it sells, companys do everything they can to win money, you judge ...  

Quote[/b] ]International Copyright laws trump local laws in these cases - Rockape is a good person to ask for a real world example on that (IIRC).

A big part of the world don't recognize the ONU, more than half of the world don't recognize Kyoto Protocol (like US) and your telling me the International Copyright laws trump local laws? Have you ever seen people in court because of violating copyright material in countries like China, Liberia, Angola, Indonesia, Slovenia, Russia, Croatia, Brasil... just for the record, the ones stated already cover more than half of the world population and it's just 5% of the ones I mentioned before.

Sorry DM I don't think so  

[kueppcera 0]

Quote[/b] ]vilas Posted on June 28 2007,12:05

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so according to the Polish law, i have right to one copy of disc in case if orginal software disc is broken

but ARMA disc even best copied not works, so if i will have little scratch on disc, my game will not launch, it is against Polish Law (using such copy protection)

normally i can use copy disc to start game and orginal disc in box to avoid any single scratch

also in some coutries advertisment which is not true is crime

so if on box of game there is stated "total military realism" and "most realistic battlefield simulating system" and in book, and in game you can kill M113 using M249, destroy car shooting in its doors, or kill man shooting in his hand , where is realism stated on box, thing that is stated on box is statement of company to the customer, what with it ?

...mmmmh....maybe if i were BIS i would answer to you:

"...if our copyrights count nothing in poland, then polish laws about advertisment not being true count nothing in my country...."

just my 2 cents

[vilas 477]

Quote[/b] ]If you don't agree with how things are, I would recommend you becoming a politician or another kind of position to change policies and how things are.

you don't know who i am and what i do as job

maybe i work as a lawyer ? maybe i fight since few years ?

okay, but there were mods who were using pirated 3dsMax and were saying that my addons are shit, althought my addons were made in oxygen, than what ?

now my addons are made in oxygen too or in few cases from imported 3d meshes from net

other things in freeware or OEM

but soon we will se mods made on MAX and they will be saying vilas mod is ***

even man who was saying about my textures , that with hacked account, said they will use MAX nomatter

if i had Photoshop or Max i could do better textures, normalmaps so don't blame me for my models and textures quality

[Törni 0]

And what was the topic again people. If I remember it correctly it was up to what point can you use and alter the game content in your mods.

If this was a big software company with closed policy no altering or modding was permitted at all.

But in the end I do not see any harm done with modding since it just increases the number of people who are interested in the game.

[sickboy 13]

Quote[/b] ]If you don't agree with how things are, I would recommend you becoming a politician or another kind of position to change policies and how things are.

you don't know who i am and what i do as job

maybe i work as a lawyer ? maybe i fight since few years ?

Ur a policemen Vilas, I think everyone knows that by now

Quote[/b] ]okay, but there were mods who were using pirated 3dsMax and were saying that my addons are shit, althought my addons were made in oxygen, than what ?

now my addons are made in oxygen too or in few cases from imported 3d meshes from net

other things in freeware or OEM

but soon we will se mods made on MAX and they will be saying vilas mod is ***

even man who was saying about my textures , that with hacked account, said they will use MAX nomatter

if i had Photoshop or Max i could do better textures, normalmaps so don't blame me for my models and textures quality

Vilas, Really... What in g's name does texturequality, hacked 3ds max, other's opinions and what not have to do with Shadow's point of first checking with Suma if it's ok to use the models???

With your reasoning... if 100 people would want some guy dead, then I should kill that person because 100 ppl wanted it???

Maybe quite extreme, but it's the same reasoning?

Just to comment on some stuff said anyway:

Vilas about the software.. Afaik normap maps can be created with nearly any texture program altough i'm a complete noob myself in it, so I can be wrong too It all comes down to manually creating rvMat files, and material settings in config classes etc. I think SLX-example weapons have some proper examples for that though.

Quote[/b] ]And what was the topic again people. If I remember it correctly it was up to what point can you use and alter the game content in your mods.

If this was a big software company with closed policy no altering or modding was permitted at all.

But in the end I do not see any harm done with modding since it just increases the number of people who are interested in the game.

Well, atm we're simply discussing without stating what Vilas did is right or wrong... I mean, there's more people that use BIS models, and like I said earlier, I personally don't mind either and I would find it weird if BIS would not allow it or whatever, never the less I think that Shadow NX got a valid point, and I think Vilas somehow feels attacked or in some other sense finds it nececairy to complain about all the unfairness of this and that, while it totally misses the point imho

[Shadow NX 1]

Before we discuss endlessly i will try to ask Marek Spanel or another Dev what they think about modding their models and rereleasing them.

This is no offense against Vilas or anyone but i dont see why we ( in that case RHS ) should play fair and do everything from scratch if someone else is just ripping a model add a scope or something and releases it.

Btw im always amazed about how simple people see things... i bought the game so i can do what i want with the models... saddly thats not true.

I will post here if i got a answer.

But i have a feeling that some addonmaker will release the first hackjob and start the wave and BIS will tolerate that even if they dont like it just like it was in OFP when p3d edit and later the Odol explorer were availeable.

[baddo 0]

Sorry a bit offtopic but as response to earlier posts. A law from for example the U.S.A. has no meaning to me. I am asked to obey the laws of my country and if I fulfill that requirement everything is fine. No U.S. police officer can require me to follow their rules in my own country, and vice versa. This is very simple if you really think about it. Who controls your country? My country is not controlled by U.S.A. "International laws" are only in effect if our local legislation has decided to apply them.

[Shadow NX 1]

Who talks about US laws, the game has a EULA - End user license agreement that you have to sign when installing ArmA ( someone correct me if im wrong, as im not home to test it ) that say what you can do and what you cant do.

If BIS doesnt want that people edit their models then that should be tolerated.

Imagine BIS taking some modders addon editing it and putting it in the next patch without even telling the maker...

Anyway, i PMed Maruk and maybe he will aswer this.

[baddo 0]

Any kind of agreement that doesn't follow our local legislation is an invalid agreement.

To make one thing clear: the legislation of my country does not allow distribution of content that was ripped from a game which license does not permit it. Last time I checked I am allowed to rip the game apart and modify/improve it for my personal use as long as no distribution happens.

EULA is just words someone made up somewhere. It must be in line with legislation still, to be effective.