Too difficult even on Easy Setting ?

[Captain Data 0]

First: ArmA is great, much better than OFP, great athmospere etc. Okay, but why talking 'bout things we all know?

I am a Vet of OFP and dozens of other tactical games, a MP-Crack (one of the better ones in Red Orchestra), so I am not THAT inexperienced. But I think, ArmA is even more hard then the reality! Nothing about realism, weapons are simulated well, same for vehicles etc, but let us talk about "AI".

- AI seems to be either real stupid or real good. Nothing 'bout that, because we know there are stupid AND genius-like people on the world. But what about a well trained soldier that even can't find a way out of a market? Sometimes they even can't move arround a tree or get stuck in obstacles.

Yes I know its difficult to create a good Idea, but Pathfinding should be not THAT problem (especially today).

- On the other Hand: Almost every soldier, even the dumbest recruit seems to be a crackshot by nature: Example ? "Destroy that bridge in Dolores". No problem so far, but if someone spots you (even if he doesn't know that you are here) he shots exactly 1 ( ! ) times and *crack* your skull is open. On "easy" setting, AI on "recruit". Funny? Nope. Realistic ? No. In Reality, a soldier doesn't know where the enemy is, especially after a "shock"-moment (remember: I destroyed a Bridge just 30s ago! ) That means: Please no more headshooting soldiers if they just spot you by "random checkin' horizon" (at 100m and more).

Same problem, other location: Almost every ground is covered by gras. No problem, thats realistic. I think, its realism too that you can't see the enemy while proning in gras. Stupid thing: AI sees you and you are dead. Below 100m instantly because of headshooting foes.

And now we are in trouble: Almost everything is fine, just that AI needs still some tweaking. It behaves too much like an AI instead of a real soldier. He knows where you are hours before you know he is there - even without doing something stupid like being noisy. But thats not that bad than being shot in the head all the time from guys you don't even know.

Just my 2 cent. I put this one here because it's concerned with SP and its not really a "troubleshooting-problem".

[NeMeSiS 11]

AI shoots more or less as good as the player, which is fair IMO, in most other games you can wait for a few seconds until the enemy hits you. And ive had quite alot of moments with bullets flying everywhere around me while i was running to cover in ArmA (which never happened in unmodded OFP, there the AI always sniped you)), so they are not THAT good at shooting, just better then the AI in the average game

EDIT: This probably should have gone in 'General' in one of the AI treads

[Captain Data 0]

Nana, hitting the enemy is not that problem (at least at distances of max 200m, beyond that point you need a scope, because they're too tiny). Look, I have no problem with getting killed because I did something really stupid. Too bad, the AI is superior because it don't need to know where I am ... an AI-Soldier just have to spot me, aims, bang and I am dead - within less than one second. First I thought its scripted to "improve" realism feeling, but after doing the same mission over and over again I find out there is a major problem: AI seems to aimbot you if you are going alone, and there are some missions where you HAVE to be alone. While part of a squad, I got almost never hit, because my mates attracts them more as I do, but when alone, I must have a big blinky sign right over my head telling them where I am. THAT should be fixed.

BTW: Using that Editor too and I find out, that my enemies seems either got too high ratings (0.8 or even higher while I am used to create real squads with 0.7 (Sergeant, Teamleader) to 0.1 (grunt). No problem fighting them, even when under heavy pressure. Skill beats Bots, you know. I think, altering AI-Settings by Difficulty does nothing.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

You're not really making a lot of sense. But if the AI sees you, they can kill you, what's wrong with that? You can't expect to stand in front of enemy fire and not get hit. Any skilled rifleman should be able to take someone down with a few (or even 1) well aimed shots. Sounds to me like you're only finding it hard when you're outnumbered. Well, what do you expect, the AI are usually always in squads and if one sees you (or hears you or just suspects you're there) the rest will soon be informed. And just because you haven't spotted the enemy doesn't mean he hasn't seen you. You can get shot dead without warning if you don't see the enemy. If you're expecting to take on a whole bunch of enemies by yourself without it really hard, you have an odd sense of realism.

[versus 0]

well, the ai has quite a few more problems.

in the campaign mission where you have to attack the convoi comming through the town, i set everything up (satchels, mines, got my rockets) and decided i was going to hide on the top balcony of one of the buildings right at the road where the convoi is comming through.

i lay down on the floor. there was NO WAY they could have seen me due to the high angle i was at. however all of the sudden i hear "crack, crack, crack", i see tracers comming THROUGH THE FLOOR! bam! i'm dead.

that sucked.

also, the mission where you need to blow up that bridge:

everything seems fine until some bmps decide they're not going to take the bridge but go for a swim instead. problem is on the other side they often have trouble getting up the ridge.

the real problem however are the troops that are getting jealous of the bmps and want to have some of the cool blue as well. however they never even make it to the other side. probably decided it's just too hot to fight today...

no way i can finish that mission.

i know of the "endmission" cheat...but that's just not the point is it?

[Captain Data 0]

You're not really making a lot of sense. But if the AI sees you, they can kill you, what's wrong with that? You can't expect to stand in front of enemy fire and not get hit. Any skilled rifleman should be able to take someone down with a few (or even 1) well aimed shots. Sounds to me like you're only finding it hard when you're outnumbered. Well, what do you expect, the AI are usually always in squads and if one sees you (or hears you or just suspects you're there) the rest will soon be informed. And just because you haven't spotted the enemy doesn't mean he hasn't seen you. You can get shot dead without warning if you don't see the enemy. If you're expecting to take on a whole bunch of enemies by yourself without it really hard, you have an odd sense of realism.

Look, I do Gotcha*, Lasergame** etc and no one, I repeat no one can "kill" with the first shot while in suprise every time. A luckshot is okay, but I find myself often get killed by a single soldier @ huge distances with first shot. Even experienced soldiers can't do so, because they need to raise the gun, aiming down and do at least one or two shots to predict where to shot at. Snipers also do so as far as I know.

At least BI should add this feature so an experienced player can fall back. Lesser experienced AIs (below 0.3) should use more shots before they can hit anything, between 0.3 and 0.6 as I described and +0.7 means "Cracks", maybe as good as a Marine.

------------

*Gotcha, Paintball: extreme ballistics, like shooting wit a grenadelauncher. I often do "predicting" shots to know where to shot add - mostly 3 or 4 "balls"

**Lasergame: no ballistics. I am using a model with a range of max 300m with 9x Scope. No "predicting" shots necessary.

*** "campy" - to camp, camping. In tactical FPS allowed, in arcade FPS not.

[lilwillie 47]

Look, I do Gotcha*, Lasergame** etc and no one, I repeat no one can "kill" with the first shot while in suprise every time. A luckshot is okay, but I find myself often get killed by a single soldier @ huge distances with first shot. Even experienced soldiers can't do so, because they need to raise the gun, aiming down and do at least one or two shots to predict where to shot at. Snipers also do so as far as I know.

At least BI should add this feature so an experienced player can fall back. Lesser experienced AIs (below 0.3) should use more shots before they can hit anything, between 0.3 and 0.6 as I described and +0.7 means "Cracks", maybe as good as a Marine.

I would agree with the others. you also seem to be bouncing back and forth about what you expect of the AI. Being killed by one shot is nothing extreme in gaming, or real life.

The comment of a sniper needing multiple shots to hit a target is not realistic. One shot, one kill is the norm. If it's two, it's cause he missed, not because he was getting range. That is the job of the spotter.

And to relate it to Paintballing, if your speaking of doing it in real life then a one shot kill is not that hard to do. Been there done that in tourney's. All the time, heck no, there's no reason to try. Spray and pray is the norm for balling and most use the one case/one kill mentality.

[Guest]

Here is an easy workaround for all who think the AI could be a bit more under stress when they fire a weapon (so they do not aim that precisely).

In your "my documents" folder search for the arma folder. Open the Yourname.ArmaProfile file.

Search these lines under class regular and veteran:

skillFriendly=0.600000;

skillEnemy=0.750000;

precisionFriendly=0.500000;

precisionEnemy=0.350000;

The game originally only lets you go down to normal AI skill.

So edit the numbers to your liking. (I just tried the numbers above. Pretty wild shooting I would say )

This is how you can also add functions that are locked to the veteran mode.

I guess this gets reseted once you open the options menu but I do not know really.

Make a backup of your file before you change something.

[Captain Data 0]

No wonder I can't even survive most battles:

=================

skillFriendly=0.850000;

skillEnemy=0.600000;

precisionFriendly=0.850000;

precisionEnemy=0.600000;

=================

Should tweak a little bit. But not too much, it still should be realistic and difficult to beat. I just want to remove that one-shot-one-kill-ability of AI.

[Zombie_Mod 0]

I agree that the enemy shooting in ArmA is pretty accurate. The destroy the bridge mission IS more difficult than it should be, because of it.

The AI is killing me from 300m+ out while I'm running, that can't be right.

[twisted 128]

the trick i find is not to run in the open. this is a combat simulation (or at least that's what it says in the translation and the reason i bought the game).

i also thought the AI was to accurate, but then i took a look at how i was playing, and i was doing things that would get me killed in RL.

Things that help:

crouch behind cover, crawl if you have to. look around before moving. Go slow. use binoculars becuase unlilke in OFP here you don't have super vision all the way out to spot a prone guy at 1km+.

try these things and you'll survive much longer.

and while playing further i have found that yes the AI are accurate, but not madly so and often the times i am shot there are a lot of bullets whizzing around me as well.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

The Dolores bridge mission was a piece of cake, first time I tried it, even on Vet, everything disabled except Super AI (enabled) and 3rd person view. My advice? Force the enemy into close quarters - find somewhere where the infantry don't go, grab an AT launcher, and camp like a demon till the T72s have karked it. Then, whack the 2 or 3 infantry that have made it over, and finish off the swimming BMPs. Then, grab the UAZ/DShKM and cruise on back to 3rd platoon. Harder than it sounds, I know, but playable.

[Nilz 0]

I have no complaints about the AI's shooting abilities, but I kinda agree with Captain Data about that grass part. It is stupid that you can't see thru the grass while in prone position but the AI can.

[WP33 0]

Here is an easy workaround for all who think the AI could be a bit more under stress when they fire a weapon (so they do not aim that precisely).

In your "my documents" folder search for the arma folder. Open the Yourname.ArmaProfile file.

Search these lines under class regular and veteran:

skillFriendly=0.600000;

skillEnemy=0.750000;

precisionFriendly=0.500000;

precisionEnemy=0.350000;

The game originally only lets you go down to normal AI skill.

So edit the numbers to your liking. (I just tried the numbers above. Pretty wild shooting I would say )

This is how you can also add functions that are locked to the veteran mode.

I guess this gets reseted once you open the options menu but I do not know really.

Make a backup of your file before you change something.

Strange. Went to this file and I couldn't find these settings.

[peardog 0]

Heh..I was camped in a building (prone in doorway) like 50 Ft from a BMP when it hit a mine I set... Upon the explosion the driver or crewmember jumped from the BMP, shot and killed me, and then blew up in the secondary explosion...

He is a stud in that the first explosion didn't even make him flinch.. and he was a crappy BMP driver.. Imagine the Real soldiers..

[CanisDEK 1]

I have finished all single missions but the two last and I have done quite a few of the campaign missions. All on veteran with my own special additions, like no crosshair and hud help.

I really like having to use my compas and map. Look at my surroundings to see where I am.

It's hard yes... some of the missions I have had to play 20 times before I got through them. But do I love it. Yes I sure do. This challenge can't be found in ANY other game.

Sometimes when circling around an area I may get a bit lost and actually having to look at the map, look at your compass and them compare it to the game world to find your location is just wicked fun.

And if the enemies didn't shoot like they do I would be able to run through the game like Rambo.

I move forward slowly. Set up snipers and machine gunners to provide cover fire. Move men forward. Use commands to watch specific directions while moving part of the squad forward. It's not the shooting part that is the hard part of the game really. It's the tactics.

I am currently working on the second last and I have gotten to the church after the lone T72 attacks. I have all my men left, except two who got stuck on a fence. In the attack on the first enemy camp I ordered my machinegunners to fire at the enemy at a range of almost 200m. They supressed the enemies and while we were pounding them other squad members moved forward.

If you just run and move without using the games features to your advantage... then you are asking to get shot and frankly deserve it  

ALso I have enabled SUPER AI in the difficult options as well. I don't know what difference that does.

[MRV 0]

Ok, since I'm also not totally satisfied with the AI, I'll just state my oppinion here.

I'm currently stuck in the Saboteur Mission where you have to sneak into the enemy base and blow up their tanks, this is where the Problems with AI are most noticeable I think:

1. Kills with one shot as discussed here are OK, but I agree with the statement that a soldier should take more time BEFORE shooting at all, the guards in that mission are not wearing NV-Goggles and it's about 2 am, but somehow they can see -and IDENTIFIY- me in about 50 till 100 Meters in range and trigger the alarm. How the hell do they do that??? I mean, if you have ever been out in nature at night, you might still be able to see far and walk around obstacles if your eye is used to darkness, but you have trouble to exactly tell if's a rock, a piece of wood or some psycho who is going to shoot or rape you

The AI soldiers in game only need one sec to know that I'm NOT some kind of object (thats ok, cause I'm moving), that I'm NOT an animal and that I'm NOT one of their own guys.

Thats unrealistic I think, in reality a soldier would see a movement in the dark, get suspicious, look closer (wtf???) and IF he can be sure it's a foe, aim and shoot.

I hope you got my point: seeing is one thing, identifying another one.......

2. I'm using a silenced M4, with a patrol of 2 guys passing by at about 80 meters. I aim, shoot twice, and the first one is dead.

I aim at the other one, he aims at me as well, he shoots first and i'm dead. He knew I was there, dispite the silencer which also makes my muzzle flash invisible.

I'd assume that in reality a soldier whose mate is shot in the dark would be shocked and run for cover as he whould NOT know WHERE the shots came from.

3. I noticed, as well as in OFP, that triggering explosives by remote detonator gives you position away, this is something that really needs to be fixed.

Great game anyway although I loved the Cold-War-Plot in OFP

[My_Shortcoming 0]

The problem for me is on mission's such as the one where you have to defend engineers wilst they build by enemy with about 10 seconds before first attack from multiple angles and my AI are stupid enough to just look (with Danger, Engage, Stay Low Watching Diff Directions) And shoot after about 3 seconds of being shot at or instantaniously before they report it. The enemy always pinpoint me (i hate the grass btw) and im dead in seconds.

I love the game, hate the grass and SP Campaign.

Multiplayer is a godsend though (So i dont sound like another complaining prick)

[Sgain 0]

I've only got the demo but I've noticed that the AI can see through grass and sometimes hillsides (the BRDM often kills me behind hills even though its buttoned up and has no way of seeing me). The enemy AI also has amazing reflexes; I see a target, aim and shoot and it takes me about 3 seconds in zoom mode to get the aimpoint dead on target, usually the AI shoots from the hip and I'm dead.

No aiming, no pausing to get a bead on target; just bang and my guy doing a death spin with his weapon up high.

I think the AI's aren't affected by weapons accuracy either; heck they are using iron sights on those AK's and they are nailing prone guys behind cover with usually 1 or 2 rounds!

I can only hope that the AI is fixed to be more realistic (pausing, aiming, and occassionally missing) soon...

[FischKopp 0]

Something annoying i noticed, is that the daytime seems not to effect the AI spotting abillity.

There is in the main campaign a sub-mission where you have to blow some tanks in a base. There are some holes in the fences around the base. Nearby every hole is tower with a guard. I tried serveral things.

1. I tried to sneak through the hole. but everytime i got spotted. Although the guard wearing no NVG.

2. This time i tried to kill the Guard. I moved in a position where i can shoot the guard from behind. One shot in the head and he was dead. But i was detected and every Guard knows where i am. It seems that the AI is kind of collective like the Borg . But really annoying was that they could see me in absolutly darkness without a NVG. And shoot me. I ve tried the same. I was not able to see any enemy without using my NVG in the darkness.

3. The best way was to take a M24, climb up the hill and kill everybody from far distance. But this was boring cos i like sneaking missions.

AFAIK the detection bug was solved in OFP 1.96. There you could kill a soldier with SD weapons without alarming someone. That must be fixed.

At all the AI is in my eyes to good in aiming/ combatsituation. I´m not a good shooter in RL, more average. But some mates who are really good shooters need also some seconds to aim, shoot and hit the target. In combatsituation and hesitation they would need more time.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

in reality a soldier would see a movement in the dark, get suspicious, look closer (wtf???) and IF he can be sure it's a foe, aim and shoot.

Well, in reality they'd make sure they had you well covered

and then challenge you: "Halt! Who goes there!?"  

[Huncowboy 0]

I loved OFP and I am trying to like AA as well. I bought the German DL version just to get my hands on it ASAP so you can definitely say I am big fan. Here is my personal opinion, feel free to disagree:

IMHO whoever states that the AI's shooting is realistic is way too partial for the game. I have been a reserve officer and although I have not seen real combat, I am convinced that shooting like the AI does in AA is not realistic. Especially from the kind of army the game is trying to represent. Of course nothing says the army in the game would be the same as say the Iraqi Army was but I would guess something similar. GAZ and T72 = 3rd World compared to today's standards.

Shooting like the AA AI does I would only expect from soldiers that are experts in shooting. I am thinking along the lines of special forces and a few expert shooters of regular forces who spend several hours practicing it each week. There is no way a vanilla 3rd world army's grunt will have the skill the AI has in the game.

I am sometimes getting killed from burst shots from 200m from an AK which I have shot extensively in real life and there is no way ->on average<- you achieve such pinpoint accuracy in combat conditions, under stress, in the dirt, from that gun while you are also being shot at. Now if I would get shot once in a while from a the AI in such way I would say fine. The problem in AA is that it is the standard to get taken out with one shot from 200m. If it would be a sniper shot or a spec ops guy...but vanilla inf doing it all the time is VERY unrealistic. Actually I barely ever see snipers doing it which is odd.

In addition (I am not quite sure about this yet) to me it seems my own squad is not that great at spotting and targeting even after being shoot at. Anyone else agrees with this? In the last mission that finally drove me here to post this, I was shoot at from my left and none of my soldiers turned that way to return the fire. They ignored the attacker.

This btw is nothing new from the game. OFP had the exact same problem with tha AI's accuracy but I don't remember it being that pronounced.

Other than this I don't have a problem with the overall reality level of the game. The only other complaint I can come up with has to do with the built in missions. They are assigning you objectives that are well beyond the scope of a sinlge squad. Take out a base, then defend a bridge, then clean out a city where there is 4 T72 and some 30-40 expert shooters... ohh forgot to mention that by this time you are low on ammo, no air support, no arty, no other squads around you since they have been taken out... I keep running into several T72 and BMP along a single mission with only limited AT ammo and no way to refill. You don't do this in real life with regular troops. The 2nd mission if I am correct makes you attack a total of 5 bases!!! BTW none of those bases had a spotter, or any other type of patrol around them. Hmmm... that should never happen and unless whoever is in charge does not know what he is doing it won't happen in real life. On a typical camp even a small one, you would have spots in several directions about 100-200m away patroling or just hiding and waiting for enemy movement.

Well no more AA for me for 2 weeks due to vacation and hopefully some user tweaks like the one posted here will balance things out. The game is very nice and I like it... it is simply going through the normal balancing problems of every complex game that has just been released. With a few patches and some user addonds this will be great to play around and I haven't even tried the online part yet.

So I would say a pretty nice job for a game but calling it a simulation is not accurate.

Feel free to criticize me, I will be back in 2 weeks.

[5133p39 14]

as for the firefights with the AI, i can add a little tip:

When under fire, lying on ground, don't stay on the spot trying to hit the enemy first, but use the rolling to sides - roll a little, aim, fire, roll, ...

From OFP i was used to try to hit the engaging enemy at any cost, because once he spoted you, it was just a matter of time until he sent a bullet through your head - if he didn't do that already with the first bullet, the second would certainly get you, so there was no point in struggling, the only chance you had, was to aim fast and shoot, before he could send that second bullet.

In ArmA, this is a little different.

In Arma i have "survived" many situation because of utilizing the new side rolls. When some AI (sometimes more than one) started shooting at me, and as they aim got better i knew they will eventually hit me, so i rolled to the side which forced them to alter their aim again, which gave me the time needed to aim and shoot back, then i rolled again, etc.

And as somebody already said - it's VERY important to use any cover you can find, including trees, rocks, etc.

And don't forget to MOVE, when i play in MP, i often see other people to actualy go where the enemy is and dig in there - which is wrong because sooner or later the AI will come for you, and MAYBE you will kill most of them, but at the end you end up dead too.

[NightShade 0]

I have no complaints about the AI's shooting abilities, but I kinda agree with Captain Data about that grass part. It is stupid that you can't see thru the grass while in prone position but the AI can.

Agreed. Prone position is now completely useless. Everyone can see you but you can't see ANYTHING. It's like in Battlefield 2, the grass is only a 4m radius around your position, so to everyone else you're just lay down in the middle of a flat open area

[5133p39 14]

I have no complaints about the AI's shooting abilities, but I kinda agree with Captain Data about that grass part. It is stupid that you can't see thru the grass while in prone position but the AI can.

Agreed. Prone position is now completely useless. Everyone can see you but you can't see ANYTHING. It's like in Battlefield 2, the grass is only a 4m radius around your position, so to everyone else you're just lay down in the middle of a flat open area

Not only that!

There is also the problem that AI, when lying prone, doesn't have their view obstructed by any grass - so the main problem here is that AI lying prone will see everything, but you, lying prone, won;t see anything!

That is the most annoying problem.

The fact, that others can see you when you are lying, doesn't bother me too much - because it's "almost" realistic, because IMO you won't be seen only in much denser nad higher grass than the one which is in ArmA.