shooting while running?

[funnyguy1 0]

Well, actually we need both: 100% speed for moving quickly form one place to another without bothering where`s the rifle pointed, and some sort of fast runing with the ability to shoot...It`s up to BIS, or was...since the game is going to be relased soon. Anyway, the suggestion remains (game2 ).

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Animations (including the ability to fire while running) can be modded, so I wouldn't worry about it anyway.

[SodaBob 0]

I have watched some Armed Assault ingame videos and these really make me wondering. In some videos it looks like crosshair is sometimes vanishing when you are sprinting and strafing, why is this? Are you able to shoot in this game while sprinting, strafing and walking backwards like in OFP?

Then about soldier animations here:

In OFP rifle was allways pointing forward and riffle was braced against hip while running, I beleave this is quite realistic combat behaviour when there is known enemy presence (atleast I would do just like this). In these Armed Assault animations riffle is moving on hips side to side and it looks like you aren't aiming it toward enemy while sprinting or walking backwards?<snip>

Have you ever fired a rifle? A bb gun? If not, go buy a toy gun or something, and try running while aiming it at something in front of you. You'll find that it's useless to even try, even if you're sprinting. Now, fast walking or walking, you can /somewhat/ aim, but even then, aiming accuracy is reduced. OFP and, presumably, ArmA take all this into consideration.

Note also, the whole "shoot from the hip" thing is bogus. Only Rambo can do that.

Oh, and you also mentioned that BIS didn't take realism into consideration here? Remember, ArmA is based on the improvements made to OFP not only in the XBox version (OFP Elite), but also in the game they made (VBS1) for the US Marines and other militaries... they've probably put a /little/ thought into it...

[Maddmatt 1]

Have you ever fired a rifle? A bb gun? If not, go buy a toy gun or something, and try running while aiming it at something in front of you. You'll find that it's useless to even try, even if you're sprinting. Now, fast walking or walking, you can /somewhat/ aim, but even then, aiming accuracy is reduced. OFP and, presumably, ArmA take all this into consideration.

Note also, the whole "shoot from the hip" thing is bogus. Only Rambo can do that.

Oh, and you also mentioned that BIS didn't take realism into consideration here? Remember, ArmA is based on the improvements made to OFP not only in the XBox version (OFP Elite), but also in the game they made (VBS1) for the US Marines and other militaries... they've probably put a /little/ thought into it...

As I, and some others have already pointed out in this thread is that it still serves as suppressing fire. It may be inaccurate but in some cases may just save your life. When you spray bullets at someone (and hopefully the new AI) they usually take cover.

[Zerg 0]

Fire needs to be reasonably accurate if it is to suppress anyone. An enemy won`t feel pinned down when you`re spraying bullets in the general direction of his village.

[meyamoti 0]

and making running while firing accurate is a veeery bad idea.

[Metal Heart 0]

One really nice feature in OFP (and most likely arma too) is that the bullet is actually fired from the 3D model of the barrel. So if you see the gun pointing to your left in the animation, that's where the bullet will go. With the proper animations, you can run, shoot and hit the broad side of a barn (or a loon just behind the corner) at the same time in OFP.

So folks who absolutely hate shooting while moving or think that it's unrealistic can use an animation that has the gun swaying and jumping like crazy even when you're just cautiously creeping forwards.

[Garcia 0]

It's not about wether or not you are to be able to shoot, it's the "Oh I want the guy to have the gun pointing straight forward when running" thing. When you run at full speed you don't give a shit about keeping you gun pointing forward. And the "supressive fire while moving" is just...stupid (IMO). I for one wouldn't feel very supressed if some stupid guy were running towards me while shooting. Just think about it for one second. What would be best for someone to do: a) Feel supressed by a person charging you while shooting his gun with 0.01% accuracy, and then put your head down so the guy can come close to you and pop a bullet in your brain...or b) Realise that the chances of him hitting you are slim therefor calmly taking your time to put a bullet in his head.

It's like feeling supressed by a suicide bomber, and instead of shooting him you let him get up close so he can blow you to pieces...

Good logic feeling supressed by someone with nearly 0% accuracy

[dmakatra 1]

Not to mention you're drawing some serious attention to you, something you DON'T want when you are on the move.

Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.

[Metal Heart 0]

Yeah, you are absolutely correct about the 0.01% and stuff, that is the case when the enemy is like a mile away. But sometimes they are quite a bit closer, especially when fighting in house to house or room to room ranges, in a dense forest or by night etc.

In some forces it's even instructed to throw a hip shot while diving for cover when being surprised by enemy fire so it can't be complete bollocks. Of course a player or AI in a computer game won't be as intimidated by the quick return of fire as a real soldier would so the supressing effect might be quite useles in ArmA.

Anyways, shooting without aiming has saved my virtual ass in OFP single player and multiplayer more than a few occassions. Sometimes being the first to fire is more important than 100% accuracy.

And you can easily point a rifle forwards while running in real life. Don't take my word for it, try it out your selves.

[Garcia 0]

Yeah, you are absolutely correct about the 0.01% and stuff, that is the case when the enemy is like a mile away. But sometimes they are quite a bit closer, especially when fighting in house to house or room to room ranges, in a dense forest or by night etc.

I would really like to see how you fight inside a house if you actually sprint from door to door

In all of those examples it would be very unnatural to sprint, therefor, if someone are stupid enough to sprint, they bloody well deserve not having their rifle pointing the right direction. This is about sprinting and shooting, not walking and shooting. If you sprint, the enemy is most likely further away than 30-40 m, and then the chance of hitting that enemy while sprinting is almost equal to 0.

And yes, keeping your rifle pointing forward while sprinting is possible, but I'm quite sure it'll slow you down, and I'm quite sure soldiers don't sprint with their rifle pointing forward. They might run with it pointing forward, but not sprint. Why? Because if you sprint you do it to move from one spot to another as fast as possible, like when you want to move from one cover to another. I'd liked very much to see you run as fast as you possibly can and keep a rifle pointing forward at all time. If you manage that and keep the same speed over a larger distance as you do with the rifle pointing to the side, then you're either really good or running very slow. It would be much more natural to keep it pointing to the side, since then you would have a much easier time holding on to it than if it was to be pointed forward.

[olemissrebel 0]

Actually, you can shoot from the hip! That's what the PAC4 mounted on the railing system is for. Seeing as none of you are in the US Military, you won't know how, or what the hell I'm talking about.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Seeing as none of you are in the US Military, you won't know how, or what the hell I'm talking about.

As if firing weapons from the hip would be a unique, secret and US-only approach ?

Firing from the hip is hollywood-crap but no serious tactics. If you ever tried firing an assault rifle from the hip you´d know how inefficient that method of bullet-waste is.

I guarantee you that you don´t hit smack with your rifle fired from the hip.

[KaiserPanda 0]

So the game should prevent this entirely? I'm a firm beliver that you should be punished in a realistic way for doing stupid things, not prevented from doing them (good luck hitting that big red barn).

Sometimes you just need to spray for your life. Maybe to make the enemy sit back down, maybe to make your friends spot a threat, maybe for your ego, maybe just to make some noise.

[twisted 128]

they way ofp had it works well. you can shoot while running, you just won't hit much (well other than yourself or maybe your fellow soldiers next to you). If you put your rifle up to aim then you can move slowly and have sorta good accuracy.

firing a rifle is much more difficult in reality than hollywood makes it out to be. hell, simply holding your gun on target while standing still is challenging because the barrel keeps swaying (this happens no matter how strong you are although regular shooting practice does help the sway 'figure eight' get a bit smaller but the real trick is timing the shot to work with the sway). Never mind charging around. And representing this human-ness is one of the things that made ofp so good.

I'd go so far as to ask the dev's or community to add even more 'human' traits that would make firing trickier and more challenging not easier.

[My_Shortcoming 0]

The idea of running and fireing accuratly is more for the CSS market etc. Someone was saying it would be good for suppresing fire, well not really, In real life if i saw a man running at me firing wildly id stop, breath, aim, fire. Same goes for AI ingame i suspect. Effecting suppresing fire is to use a team, or a machine gunner, putting constant accurate fire on the enemy position. Maybe you could have 2 run modes, 1 sprint for speed and no fireing capabilites to get from A -> B afap, and another that is an alerted run, a bit faster than the medium pace jog but alot slower than all out sprint, where once you spot an enemy you can quickly get them in your sites, be it with a moving sight.

Just a thought.

[Second 0]

Quote[/b] ]Seeing as none of you are in the US Military, you won't know how, or what the hell I'm talking about.

As if firing weapons from the hip would be a unique, secret and US-only approach ?

Firing from the hip is hollywood-crap but no serious tactics. If you ever tried firing an assault rifle from the hip you´d know how inefficient that method of bullet-waste is.

I guarantee you that you don´t hit smack with your rifle fired from the hip.

It is to scare the enemy. IT has anything to do with killing the enemy. We were thought that if you spot an enemy and he spots you. Shoot one shot and dive for cover. In battlefield people are in tenssion, if someonne shoots at you, your (or yours nerves, muscles, insticts) most likely react to it that. people waste thousands of bullets to get one kill even in WW2, not to mentions modern assaultrifle's era. Why all those men who can shoot accurately during training can't shoot in battlefield? Does it have anything to do with the fact that enemy shoots back, and men are affraid of that and so they just spray bullets without even aiming.

THIS IS TO ALL THOSE WHO DOESN'T SEEM TO GET THE FACT THAT It is stupid to run full speed if you see that enemy kill it first then run! In OFP i rarely shoot when running, as it doesn't have suppressive value, but i've saved my "life" sometimes with it expacely in build-in areas in less than 10 meters distance.

About charge, how many of you have tried to shoot aimed shots at enemy or opponent who sprints close to you. mostly this shooting is very unaccurate because aiming takes time if your suprised. My personal experience is that pistols are best for this situations as it's small and easy to use, during my airsoft hobby i had French Fa-Mas replica, but even that it was short and compact it was hard to gain an aim to fast moving target. Expacly when i was still un-experienced. Charging side has it's advantages, i can't list them, but from airsoft i seen that facts are undeniable. But as stated earlier, mostly it is better to move slower and be more prepared to shoot aimed shots fastly than move fast and hamper down ability to shoot fastly and accurately.

Situation shows which method is best. I know something about airsoft, but i don't say that i know something about battlefield as i haven't been in it myself... only read about it a lot.

[meyamoti 0]

Now that I think about it,there is only one way this method could be heldpful and that is in close quarters,like inside of a structures with small corridors.

[Metal Heart 0]

I think the animations in WGL 5.1 have it quite right, you can fire aimed shots or accurate hip shots when walking, hip shots forward when running and when you sprint the gun is braced against you and pointing to the left.

It is useful in urban combat when you don't have the time to stop to peek around by each and every corner. Just run and if someone happens to be behind the corner facing you, fire a burst at him and continue running to cover before he has the chance to fire back. If you had stopped to aim first, he would've had the advantage in case he was already stationary or maybe even waiting for you behind the corner. Of course that's a ramboesque maneuver but you should be able to do it because it's not impossible to do so in real-life.

[Quenaelin 0]

Some people say that it can be used tactically and some are saying it is more like hollywood action and could not be used tactically. I don't wan't to argue how tactically usable it is and accurate and whatever, I only want possibility to be able to do that.

I haven't seen any running and firing forward animations yet and realised that they are probably testing basic AI animations here in this video, player animations are hopefully different and more versatile. I hope players could still move their weapon in direction where they like. In OFP you could look freely in about 180 degrees by pressing ALT-key and pointing your weapon with mouse, I hope they continue doing that in ArmA. When running in OFP you could duck your head when pointing your weapon down with mouse, if you liked to shoot suppressive fire while running you just raised your aim, that was great movability and weapon pointability. I like to see whatkind of different movements player can do in ArmA, leaning is good addition though it should be allready included in OFP.

Fast sprinting in ArmA could be implemented similarly, when sprinting as fast as you can, you just point your weapon down under the horizon with mouse and speed will be increasing, you could look occasionally forward with ALT key if necessary. Then running speed would slow down if you raise your aim and you would be able to shoot also. It would be very easy to use and you don't need to hassle with keys to be able to sprint fast. This could be used when running for cover.

[dm 9]

Actually, you can shoot from the hip! That's what the PAC4 mounted on the railing system is for. Seeing as none of you are in the US Military, you won't know how, or what the hell I'm talking about.

Err.. right...

1st. What IS mounted on some of the US weapons in ArmA is an AN/PEQ-2, laser/ir illuminator. Which projects either a laser dot or an IR dot, the latter can only be seen while wearing NVG's or using IR/NV optics. Whether these are functional or not is not confirmed.

2nd. Why should no one outside of the US Mil know what a laser aiming device is? Its not like its something exclusive to the US Mil...

[DirtyRat 0]

shooting from the hip...my opinion is that you SHOULD be allowed to do this and the game simply punishes you by making it next to impossible to hit somebody

[Garcia 0]

Actually, you can shoot from the hip! That's what the PAC4 mounted on the railing system is for.  Seeing as none of you are in the US Military, you won't know how, or what the hell I'm talking about.

Yes, and you can also bend over and shoot between your legs. Nothing in real life will prevent you (except maybe you officer or something). Anyway, I saw a US SEAL with a M60 say on telly that firing from the hip is...oh, big suprise, just rambo bullshit

[KaiserPanda 0]

I'm not an OFP vet - bit of a late-comer, decided to wait for ArmA - so can someone explain something to me?

Are there walk, run, and sprint speeds in OFP? If so, I can see what you're getting at. Sprinting is a full-body motion, you can't realy even hold a rifle up if you're realy sprinting. Jogging and running, sure. Sprinting, no.

I think Infiltration has the best example of this in a game, with the walk/run toggle + sprint. If the toggle is on run, you move hastily in whatever position, and your weapon sways a lot. You can't fire while sprinting, when you come out of a sprint you maintain momentum for a few steps, and the toggle is automaticly shifted to fast (good theory. If you're bookin' it you probably want to keep doing that. ).

[Metal Heart 0]

OFP has walk/run toggle and a separate key for sprint and it works just like INF. Only difference is that with the default animations, shooting while sprinting is actually more accurate than while running.