Are nights in black and white?

[granQ 293]

As seen on ofp.info, great with a light from the lighthouse but please, the nights are not in black and white.

Its a "effect" that dev probaly think is cool to apply, but the result would better without it, nights arent black and white, esp not if you have a lighthouse or other lights.

.The picture with lighthouse

[Stuntman 0]

I Would say to not have black and white effect. it is so cool to look how dark it is on the lighthouse scrennshot, almost no game have dark nights, but AA has. it is so dark that you can't se a soldier from right in front of you! just look at the scrennshot yourself!

[mg]http://ofp.gamepark.cz/news/pics3/ArmAscreenies14.jpg[/img]>100kb

[vektorboson 8]

It would be fully correct, if the dark places were grey, and the illuminated places were colored.

This would complicate the pixel shader a little bit, as you would have to desaturate the pixel according to its luminance value. (I think a transfer function/lookup texture could do the trick, without requiring a branch in the shader...)

[Capitan_eXtreme 0]

In reality, night-vision for humans IS NOT in balck and white.

Allow me to explain... As most people know you have two sets of cells on your retina - cones and rods. Cone cells are sesetive to bright light levels, and can see in colour. Rods (of which there are many more than cones) work best in low light. This why your eyes have to adjust to the darkness - it takes on average 45 min for the rods to fully replace the cones as primary light-gathering cells when darkness falls.

Now rods cannot see in full colour. They are most sesetive to BLUE light. That is why, especially on a bright night, everything has a blue tinge to it. Its like looking through a blue filter. Therefore, nights in AA whouldn't be B&W, but blue-tinged.

As a postscript, I hope BIS integrates the time it takes for retinal cells to adjust into their HDR effects, along with the exposure differences.

[suma 8]

Now rods cannot see in full colour. They are most sesetive to BLUE light. That is why, especially on a bright night, everything has a blue tinge to it. Its like looking through a blue filter. Therefore, nights in AA whouldn't be B&W, but blue-tinged.

I am afraid you got it wrong. Cones provide the colored vision - rods provide luminance only. Rods have much wider dynamic range - they are able to respond to much lower luminance level, but being only one type of them, they provide no color information, meaning during the night you cannot tell what color the object is - if it red, green or blue, which can be best described as black and white only vision.

The night being blue is only a movie convention, it has no real-world meaning.

While it is true rods are more sensitive to blue than cones are, this does not mean what you see in dark is blue - it means when you have a blue and red object which appear about the same luminace in the daytime, the red object looks much darker during the night then the red one.

We will still improve the night vision model, especially for the bright areas, which definitely should show the color information, as the lights from them is strong enough to be sensed by cones.

[Frans 0]

Back to work, you!

[Garcia 0]

The night being blue is only a movie convention, it has no real-world meaning.

Indeed. At least to my knowledge movie makers use these "filters" to make a colour dominate more than IRL. Blue makes things look much more cold/chilly, red more hot etc. They also use this to "mark" what is RL and what's a dream etc. One film I saw they had a red filter for the past (when Buddah lived...was a film about Buddah) and blue in the present day. Anyway, usually nights are cooler than days, therefor they probably use blue filters to make nights look more blue, therefor more chilly. In real life, if you got a red apple in a very dark room, you won't be able to see that it's actually red. At least I can't

[codarl 1]

We will still improve the night vision model, especially for the bright areas, which definitely should show the color information, as the lights from them is strong enough to be sensed by cones.

I'm really curious on how this could be done.

Btw, though I'll probably not get an answer: in OFP, some lights could be "fired" out, some put out by an exlosion, and some not put out at all. However, everytime during CQB when I fired a show at a lamp post and it just means I gave away my position, it's a bit... not-nice.

Will lightsources be destroyable in ArmA?

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I thought the night effects in ofp was great.

But what about when there is light sources during the night in ArmA? Will we be able to see color there?

I am asking this, because it's pretty different what kinda lightsource there is, since for example hallogen lamps (english term) doesn't have the full spectrum of colors in it, making it impossible to see those colors.

In the opposit, the old "glowing lamps" (again, english term), does have all the colors.

[speeder 0]

I didn't like the Black and white nights in ofp. it was not realistic. I want colors, though it should still be dark colors as I would see them during the night IRL

[frederf 0]

Black and white in OFP seemed a little funny because you were capable of seeing like stark white when that doesn't happen in real life. I appreciated BIS at least trying to replicate the complexities of the human vision. To be honest I haven't seen any ArmA screenshots at night really. I'm not really clear what the PS is able to do. I do know we have HDR now so hopefully that'll prevent our LCDs from just showing a black glare surface when a person in real life would be able to see at least 5 ft and make out slight shapes.

Old movies with the blue filter really crack me up. Making it blue so it's "night" but it's CLEARLY like 4pm in the afternoon when they filmed it.

[mrj-fin 0]

I havent seen yet any screens from night in ArmA but i wanna little change from OFP than everything not looks like black&white in shots of lights.

[Capitan_eXtreme 0]

Now rods cannot see in full colour. They are most sesetive to BLUE light. That is why, especially on a bright night, everything has a blue tinge to it. Its like looking through a blue filter. Therefore, nights in AA whouldn't be B&W, but blue-tinged.

I am afraid you got it wrong. Cones provide the colored vision - rods provide luminance only. Rods have much wider dynamic range - they are able to respond to much lower luminance level, but being only one type of them, they provide no color information, meaning during the night you cannot tell what color the object is - if it red, green or blue, which can be best described as black and white only vision.

The night being blue is only a movie convention, it has no real-world meaning.

While it is true rods are more sensitive to blue than cones are, this does not mean what you see in dark is blue - it means when you have a blue and red object which appear about the same luminace in the daytime, the red object looks much darker during the night then the red one.

We will still improve the night vision model, especially for the bright areas, which definitely should show the color information, as the lights from them is strong enough to be sensed by cones.

I stand corrected. My source (a book written by renound Australian science writer Dr Karl Kruszelnicki) may have been incorrect or I may have misinterpereted it. But thanks anyway!

[Scrub 0]

On the to be fixed list! Good to hear, thanks!

[Journeyman 0]

We will still improve the night vision model, especially for the bright areas, which definitely should show the color information, as the lights from them is strong enough to be sensed by cones.

That's great! And don't forget that very few artificial lights are actually white! For instance sodium streetlights are usually orange or red. Inside lights of buildings (as seen through windows) is usually a yellow color. The moon is usually a yellowy color too except when low on the horizon when it can be a red! A fire burning at night would give a bright yellow/orange glow! Fireflies usually have a lime green glow! The light from a lighthouse is a strong white sometimes blue white as it is an arc light, but most car headlights would have a slightly yellow tone in comparison.

Moral: Rendering everything in black and white at night is very unrealistic unless there are no lights at all! But then shine your flashlight at the ground and you will instantly see that the grass is very green indeed!  

[NeMeSiS 11]

The moon is usually a yellowy color too except when low on the horizon when it can be a red!

Now, this may depent on weather conditions/time of the year/something, but my moon is almost always grey?

[Journeyman 0]

The moon is never grey! I suggest you hold something grey up next to it and compare, I think you will then see that it has color. The problem is that there is little else to compare it with! My moons are often very orange! Think about what color the surface of the moon actually is - it's a sandy color, so that is pretty much what you see when the sun shines on it!  

[Guest Ti0n3r]

It looks like it'll be similar to what we had in Elite, wich is preeeetty nice stuff.

[Journeyman 0]

I've never seen nights in Elite! Is there color in Elite's nights or is it just good lighting effects?

[COBRA EATER 0]

I'm not sure where I read this but I thought that we were told in an interview that things like looking at the sun, and flares at night would affect you vision in game. If i am wrong, it'd be cool to see something like that put in, by BI or a mod.

[NeMeSiS 11]

The moon is never grey! I suggest you hold something grey up next to it and compare, I think you will then see that it has color. The problem is that there is little else to compare it with! My moons are often very orange! Think about what color the surface of the moon actually is - it's a sandy color, so that is pretty much what you see when the sun shines on it!  

This is true (couldnt check in RL as i cant see the moon right now but i believe you&wikipedia), but if we see it grey in RL because of whatever reason, we would also see it grey in the game right? Unless we get flashlight and some object to shine on and hold next to the moon we see it grey, we probably dont get those objects so i guess its easier to have a grey moon?

(IMO it would be a waste of time to simulate the moons color )

[Capitan_eXtreme 0]

The moon is never grey! I suggest you hold something grey up next to it and compare, I think you will then see that it has color. The problem is that there is little else to compare it with! My moons are often very orange! Think about what color the surface of the moon actually is - it's a sandy color, so that is pretty much what you see when the sun shines on it!

This is true (couldnt check in RL as i cant see the moon right now but i believe you&wikipedia), but if we see it grey in RL because of whatever reason, we would also see it grey in the game right? Unless we get flashlight and some object to shine on and hold next to the moon we see it grey, we probably dont get those objects so i guess its easier to have a grey moon?

(IMO it would be a waste of time to simulate the moons color )

I agree, but if the time allows then having the moon change color slightly would make for a very realistic effect. Although how much it would change is debatable, as the yellow or red moon is produced by pollution in the atmosphere and I would doubt Sarahni would have the industry to produce such an effect.

[Journeyman 0]

Although how much it would change is debatable, as the yellow or red moon is produced by pollution in the atmosphere and I would doubt Sarahni would have the industry to produce such an effect.

I'm gonna do a Suma on you and say I am afraid you got it wrong!    Pollution only makes the moon red or dark orange as red is the spectrum of light that can penetrate thick haze, Yellow is the moons natural color albeit a very bright faded yellow but this can deepen depending on atmospheric conditions (not necessarily pollution).

However, the color of the moon aside, I still think we need to take into account that most artificial lighting especially street lighting is never white and often red or orange and shining your flashlight will reveal color etc. Rendering everything at night as black and white is unrealistic and spoils the immersion IMO!  

[gonk 0]

well... this all depends on how well area is lit.    Yes night vision will bring back some colour perception.  But your range of colour perception is limited. So I am guessing night vision, lit only by the moon and stars, will model colour loss.

Moon yellow ?? I guess it all depends on what polluted part of the world you live in.  A full moon has a Blue/white tinge here...:p  With yellow through to reddish on the horizon.. which is environmental not factory induced...so it varies

Now we can take night vision further... Night vision diminishes with altitude... So at about 4000 ft at night your night visions starts to deteriorate to about 7000 ft where you mostly only see black/white.  We are talking trying to decipher colour differences with only the moon/stars as your light.

So it will be difficult for the model to suit everybody's personal experiences... but I am fairly confident it will be excellent.  

I guess the next thing is for BIS to give use a few calibration test patterns in the game so everyone can calibrate their monitors...so no cheating with gamma set to flat out at night...lol.  Lets start off with Red/Green/Blue balancing for day/dusk/night.  Then lets adjust contrast levels.  One day we might get to play the game..

[Journeyman 0]

A full moon has a Blue/white tinge here...:p  With yellow through to reddish on the horizon.. which is environmental not factory induced...so it varies

So you have a blue moon? Hmmm, what's that saying erm... 'Once in a blue moon' ... that's it!    

I think one thing we need to remember is that everyone sees color slightly differently. I discovered this when I started to have arguments with my wife about the color of a fleece jacket! For me it was definitely brown but she insisted that it was green! I've had this also with green and blue so there are obviously differences in how we all see or interpret different colors.

Sure when the lights are very dim you don't see color just shades of grey. I did quite a bit of nighttime orienteering when I was younger and did some 24-hour mountain challenges where we were forced to use our natural night vision. If you turn on a light you temporarily lose your night vision and then can only see as far as the light shines, turn it off and you can't see anything for a few minutes until your retina adjusts and then you see everything in black and white except for the darkest shadows .. very eerie!

But then you look into the distance and see a town lit up with an orange/red glow from the street lighting or the dancing orange light from someone’s bonfire!

I just hope that BIS can find a way to implement color at night where it obviously would be IRL!