Mig-23

[xnodunitx 0]

Oh they could come work for us!.....then again OFP has a community full of developers.

[.COMmunist 0]

I think I understand what Vit is trying to say. He is not doing this for his own glory, but for OFP community to enjoy all posible addons. When first addons were made for OFP game, they were not made to get recognition or a line in the resume for possible jobs, but they were made because people loved the game and wanted to expand the virtual borders of the OFP. Unfortunately this spirit is almost lost. Lots of addonmakers are doing this as a business now. They hope to show their work and eventualy to land a good job with development studios; or sometimes just to show the world how skillful they are at making addons. There is nothing wrong with that. It is their work and they have the rights to do whatever they want with it. However, there are some guys out there that make addons for the love of the game. Vit is one of those guys. I think he just wants to make more addons by any means possible, he cares more about the end-users then about his pride. I've never seen him not giving credit to other addonmakers, so he tries to play by the rules. If someone feels he is messing around with their possible income source or just addonmaker glory, try to think about millions of players who would greatly benefit from good quality addons ( original or fixed up ). Honestly, when I play, all I care is the quality of an addon, not who made it ( my appologies if this offends any addonmaker). I think I speak for many in the OFP community.

[adrenaline red 0]

In this situation I think its damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Vit is one of my favorite addon makers, and I have been a fan of his for a while now. And I dont think anyother addon maker has had to put up with as much complaining and moaning as he has. Yet he is still here making us great addons ON HIS OWN. He is not getting payed, and sure as hell dosent need to put up with all the complaints and flames. Noone does. Anyone else probably would have quit, and I am sure many great addon makers or potential ones have as a result of this OFP community that at times, can be volitile and hostile to the very people who keep it alive.

I have read posts directed to Vit flaming and complaining about anything from texture and overall quality, to origin of his addons or parts of them. I know if I were Vit I dont think I would even bother putting up with all that. And it would be a shame if one day he does decide that he dosent need all this.

If he said it wasnt his chopper thats good enough for me. But I will be honest enough to say that I really dont care how Vit and other addon makers create their addons. These addons are freeware and are created by people who ask nothing in return. You can call it "cutting corners", "stealing", or whatever else. But I know for a fact, that if Vit or anyother addon maker released a great addon that was stolen or used stolen parts, most if not all of us would download it. And I think it would be hypocritcal to tell yourselves otherwise. Cause cmon, we all can admit that if there is a great addon released, even if it were questionable, most of us woud download it without hesitation.

End rant:

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

This case as described above is not exeption. Vit likes to use other's work. It can be seen e.g. in case of "his" Mi-8/17 pack, which is textured by CSLA's textures without any word in readme or contacting us (at least as I know). Those textures were made by me (about 1.5 years ago), so i know them very well.

Just for the full picture.

[Supah 0]

And I dont think anyother addon maker has had to put up with as much complaining and moaning as he has.

Thats mainly because no other addon maker has such a long and well know history of using other peoples stuff without permission.

Quote[/b] ]Yet he is still here making us great addons ON HIS OWN.

Many times consisting largely of parts he stole from other people

Quote[/b] ] He is not getting payed, and sure as hell dosent need to put up with all the complaints and flames.

If he is tired of being exposed as a thief he should stop stealing

Quote[/b] ]Noone does. Anyone else probably would have quit, and I am sure many great addon makers or potential ones have as a result of this OFP community that at times, can be volitile and hostile to the very people who keep it alive.

The top three reasons for mod makers quiting:

1. Community whining and ungreatfullness

2. Addon stealing by people like Vit and the "WHOO I DONT CARE As LONG As I GET WHAT I WANT ME ME ME ME ME" respons by community members.

3. Being exposed as a thief.

I cant really say I give a rats ass about the cases that quit due to number 3.

Quote[/b] ]I have read posts directed to Vit flaming and complaining about anything from texture and overall quality, to origin of his addons or parts of them. I know if I were Vit I dont think I would even bother putting up with all that. And it would be a shame if one day he does decide that he dosent need all this.

Well if that makes him start producing his own work then well great.

Quote[/b] ]If he said it wasnt his chopper thats good enough for me.

Too bad he had to be pressed into saying it.

Quote[/b] ] But I will be honest enough to say that I really dont care how Vit and other addon makers create their addons. These addons are freeware and are created by people who ask nothing in return. You can call it "cutting corners", "stealing", or whatever else. But I know for a fact, that if Vit or anyother addon maker released a great addon that was stolen or used stolen parts, most if not all of us would download it.

Take it from someone who can actually produce textures from scratch, its attitudes displayed by people like you and people like vit's thieving ways that make real addon makers quit. I hope your happy when all the real mod makers leave and people like vit have noone left to "borrow" from.

Quote[/b] ]And I think it would be hypocritcal to tell yourselves otherwise. Cause cmon, we all can admit that if there is a great addon released, even if it were questionable, most of us woud download it without hesitation.

I have some sense of right and wrong and have never downloaded addons by people once I knew they liked to steal other ppls work. If you think that its ok, where do you park your car? I have some people who would be interested in buy it after I steal it. Cant blame them for wanting a cheap car right?

[soul_assassin 1750]

Quote[/b] ]These addons are freeware and are created by people who ask nothing in return.

yes all we ask is a little respect of our work, we spend countless hours of our free time on these beauties, respect ownerships. If u ask to use a model ull rarely be rejected, if u credit properly.

[DKM Jaguar 0]

I think I understand what Vit is trying to say. He is not doing this for his own glory, but for OFP community to enjoy all posible addons. When first addons were made for OFP game, they were not made to get recognition or a line in the resume for possible jobs, but they were made because people loved the game and wanted to expand the virtual borders of the OFP. Unfortunately this spirit is almost lost. Lots of addonmakers are doing this as a business now. They hope to show their work and eventualy to land a good job with development studios; or sometimes just to show the world how skillful they are at making addons. There is nothing wrong with that. It is their work and they have the rights to do whatever they want with it. However, there are some guys out there that make addons for the love of the game. Vit is one of those guys. I think he just wants to make more addons by any means possible, he cares more about the end-users then about his pride. I've never seen him not giving credit to other addonmakers, so he tries to play by the rules. If someone feels he is messing around with their possible income source or just addonmaker glory, try to think about millions of players who would greatly benefit from good quality addons ( original or fixed up ). Honestly, when I play, all I care is the quality of an addon, not who made it ( my appologies if this offends any addonmaker). I think I speak for many in the OFP community.

I don't know of any addon makers who show their work as some kind of advertisement for their skills, or who would put modding on their resume.

If you think Vit set out creating addons purely because he wants them in OFP, he wouldn't put his name on them, or say "I made this" or actually have a topic on the BIS forums unless he wanted recognition for it.

And so what if some addon makers want you to remember who made it? Is the price of a "thanks" too high for you?

Are all the famous artists meant to have just painted for the sake of art, and to have no form of encouragment for their work? No. So it's different for addon makers how?

Do you think it fair that an addon maker can take an addon from a game which they did nothing but set up in O2 for OFP, gets the same credit as the guy who sees a vehicle, researches it and finds what it does, studies plans and pictures to create a model as accurate as possible, and then takes his time to create textures which look as realistic as possible for it?

I don't, becuase the second guy is the one who people like Vit take from in the first place and he gets THEIR hard-earned thanks for none of the work.

Feel free to hold up a theif as an idol and a saviour of the OFP community but you're just putting the final nails in the coffin.

Quote[/b] ]t is their work and they have the rights to do whatever they want with it.

Including keeping it un-touched by people who take it from one game and put it in another community where the players are not aware it is not original and who take all the credit for that work where it doesnt belong.

[xnodunitx 0]

the same credit as the guy who sees a vehicle, researches it and finds what it does, studies plans and pictures to create a model as accurate as possible, and then takes his time to create textures which look as realistic as possible for it?

I don't, becuase the second guy is the one who people like Vit take from in the first place and he gets THEIR hard-earned thanks for none of the work.

Hoorah! Point made.

[.COMmunist 0]

Jaguar,

I agree with you 100%! But this is not the reality! We all wish things were as simple as possible and all bad guys are black ( or red ) and good guys are white! But what I would like to point out is that most people in OFP community are not addonmakers. We sometimes have no clue what you guys are talking about in your addonmaker language. But what we do understand is the final product that comes from all these discussion. My friend, it sucks, but it is a reality, most people in OFP community cares about the quality and playability, but not who gets the credit. It is very unfair to addonmakers, but it is true. Most people here don't want to know how you made your Tunguskas , or how Vit made his Mi-24 pack, they just want to put it into the game and enjoy. IMHO all these talks between addonmakers on "copyrights" should happen behind the scenes, because players just want to play. I am not saying that it is right, it is simply a reality. If you don't buy a copyright to your product, be prepared when people abuse it and take advantage of it. I have my own business, I sell military optics on the net ( scopes, binoculars, night and thermal ). People always steal sales ideas, internet images, vendors steal my customers, and fucking hackers are always present! I hve to spend money and protect my info, and if I am not willing to do so, it is a fair game. In the free environment like we have here in OFP, you can only hope people be honest; and if they are not, there is nothing you can do ( I know it sucks ).

[sanctuary 19]

Maybe it is just a big misunderstanding, as Vit has lot of difficulties with the english langage.

But how hard it is to just ask for permission and credit the original authors ?

Quote[/b] ]IMHO all these talks between addonmakers on "copyrights" should happen behind the scenes, because players just want to play.

I strongly disagree, the addon makers are part of this community, people here are not always wanting to play at any cost.

Addons makers have all the right to defend their work in public when they feel people are stealing their work in public.

I just hope BIS will be more supporting addons makers on that point.

[Supah 0]

Jaguar,

I agree with you 100%! But this is not the reality! We all wish things were as simple as possible and all bad guys are black ( or red ) and good guys are white! But what I would like to point out is that most people in OFP community are not addonmakers. We sometimes have no clue what you guys are talking about in your addonmaker language.

Ok a small wordbook:

Theft: Taking something that isnt your own and pasing it of as yours.

Thief: someone who does the above.

Self centered user: A person who doesnt care wether about who and what gets ripped off in the process as long as he gets what he wants.

Quote[/b] ]But what we do understand is the final product that comes from all these discussion. My friend, it sucks, but it is a reality, most people in OFP community cares about the quality and playability, but not who gets the credit. It is very unfair to addonmakers, but it is true.

Maybe we addonmakers should stop caring about making addons then

Quote[/b] ]Most people here don't want to know how you made your Tunguskas , or how Vit made his Mi-24 pack, they just want to put it into the game and enjoy. IMHO all these talks between addonmakers on "copyrights" should happen behind the scenes, because players just want to play.

Selfcentered user logic at work

Quote[/b] ]I am not saying that it is right, it is simply a reality.

Lets all just put up with murder, I am not saying its right but it is simply a reality that it happens

Quote[/b] ] If you don't buy a copyright to your product, be prepared when people abuse it and take advantage of it.

It does not work that way with intellectual property laws.

Quote[/b] ] I have my own business, I sell military optics on the net ( scopes, binoculars, night and thermal ). People always steal sales ideas, internet images, vendors steal my customers, and fucking hackers are always present! I hve to spend money and protect my info, and if I am not willing to do so, it is a fair game. In the free environment like we have here in OFP, you can only hope people be honest; and if they are not, there is nothing you can do ( I know it sucks ).

Where do you keep your goods? I'd like to steal a couple, I am not saying its right, I am just saying I am going to steal them. Please don't "whine" about it too much.

Perhaps the idea I and another modmaker once had of "Mod maker only releases" were a good idea. Forget about the selfcentered users and just share your finished work with some mod making friends who you know you can trust.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Jaguar,

I agree with you 100%! But this is not the reality! We all wish things were as simple as possible and all bad guys are black ( or red ) and good guys are white! But what I would like to point out is that most people in OFP community are not addonmakers. We sometimes have no clue what you guys are talking about in your addonmaker language. But what we do understand is the final product that comes from all these discussion. My friend, it sucks, but it is a reality, most people in OFP community cares about the quality and playability, but not who gets the credit. It is very unfair to addonmakers, but it is true. Most people here don't want to know how you made your Tunguskas   , or how Vit made his Mi-24 pack, they just want to put it into the game and enjoy. IMHO all these talks between addonmakers on "copyrights" should happen behind the scenes, because players just want to play. I am not saying that it is right, it is simply a reality. If you don't buy a copyright to your product, be prepared when people abuse it and take advantage of it. I have my own business, I sell military optics on the net ( scopes, binoculars, night and thermal ). People always steal sales ideas, internet images, vendors steal my customers, and fucking hackers are always present! I hve to spend money and protect my info, and if I am not willing to do so, it is a fair game. In the free environment like we have here in OFP, you can only hope people be honest; and if they are not, there is nothing you can do ( I know it sucks ).

I have to say you arent exactly helping with the "What can you do attitude, its always going happen" attitude.

Earlier this year we (RKSL - JP and I) caught a guy who had taken some of our models we had produced some years ago, and some of the early RKSL models - betas that were 'stolen' from us.  We took him to court - he was selling them on his own site    and successfully prosecuted him under international copyright laws.

This community is no different.  With the added twist that BIS prevent you from making money with anything produced with their tools.  

Ripping off Ideas is one thing - unless you can prove they are 100% unique then you need a patent to protect it - but ripping off another works is still copyright infringment.  Now just because we make addons for free doesnt make our work any less valuable.  The only difference is we dont profit from it any way apart from the odd "Woohoo this model is great! Thanks" when we release something good.

We all know it goes on...we all know people in this community doing it.  Some have even left as a result of being caught...no loss to my mind.  But just sitting there ands saying to someone whos work has been ripped off - "Pfft, what can you do, its not like you're losing money or anything" is just insulting.

Since the majority of addon makers make stuff because they want to and becuase they get a certain sense of satisfaction about releasing addons to the community.  The feedback they get is usually the inspiration to produce bigger and better releases for the non-addon makers to enjoy.  I can tell you about 10 addon makers that just stoped producing OFP stuff becuase they were sick of being ripped off.

Now you really have only two choices...support the people that slave a way in darkened rooms for countless hours making something for you to enjoy....or go and support the parasitic leeches that are dependant on the quality Mod and addon makers

[Gedis 0]

what's going on here?

well... addon makers who makes their own models are realy hard workers... who just imports a new model also is great, with this we could have new addons faster... so what' the problem? just credit people, let them know that you are using their model and all will be ok.

P.S. but those, who makes addons completely by them self, are great men!

[.COMmunist 0]

If someday, some new addonmaker takes your models, DKM's scripts, ORCS sounds and makes an addon. It turns out to be the best addon in the OFP. None of you give him permission to release it. He does anyway. Do you think people will download it? YES or NO?

[DKM Jaguar 0]

what's going on here?

well... addon makers who makes their own models are realy hard workers... who just imports a new model also is great, with this we could have new addons faster... so what' the problem? just credit people, let them know that you are using their model and all will be ok.

P.S. but those, who makes addons completely by them self, are great men!

So what if you get it faster?

What's your point?

You want poorly made models and textures, in an addon which causes CTDs because "it's faster" than if I did it properly? Fine... if that's what you reeeeally think you want..

And who do you think the poor sap is who's addon is being converted, if all addons are just converts?

Quote[/b] ]Do you think people will download it? YES or NO?

Does that make it right, or just show the lack of honour and morality in the community?

[Status_cz 0]

This case as described above is not exeption. Vit likes to use other's work. It can be seen e.g. in case of "his" Mi-8/17 pack, which is textured by CSLA's textures without any word in readme or contacting us (at least as I know). Those textures were made by me (about 1.5 years ago), so i know them very well.

Just for the full picture.

Not only by you

[xnodunitx 0]

In the end all of this boils down to one simple question

"May I use your work?" If they say yes then go ahead but make sure to give them credit,if not either make your own or go to something other project,simple as that,and you don't have anybody riding ya arse.

[Gedis 0]

wow!

DKM Jaguar,

no... you, talented addon makers do it by your self, but some one like me just can't, i don't even know what CTD means...

offcourse you done it right, because you put your hands, soul and everything else you have...

I didn't wanted to say anything bad... i feel like i just did something not good...

P.S. i'm for fully made addons

[.COMmunist 0]

I'd say YES. People will still download it, and THAT IS A REALITY! Perhaps we have a very bad system in the OFP community on how to release addons to the public. Addonmakers create addons, some of them have their websites where they can allow ppl to download their work. Most of ppl like me find out about your addons from information websites like BI FORUMS, Flashpoint.ru, Flashpoint.cz (my personal favorites), etc. Perhaps addonmakers and forum coordinators should come up with the system where all new addons go through some check point, some jury of addonmakers and forum leaders before addons get released. In such "jury" you can discuss if this addon is stolen, pirated or authentic. Then forum moderators will allow this addon to be released to the public (give it some sort of seal of approval from the "jury")and release it through their forums. If addonmaker steals someone's work and refuse to release it that way and just releases it through his own website, he would be doing it with out the "seal of approval". This way all users would know that this addon is pirated, and let the users to decide to download it or not. Let end-users decide for themselves if they want to support honest work or if they don't give a shit. Because we don't have a real way to enforce rules of honest work, we will always have this problem.

[xnodunitx 0]

I'm sure Vit feels embarrased and bad enough now,lets just hope this lesson has been for the best,if you really want to please people Vit ya gotta make the stuff yourself,trust me I know.

Before I could do nothin all I could do was modify textures and the best recolors and kept them to myself and felt like crap,thought I had no meanin but then I found Franze's apache and well..you see how things have gone,it gives you a real good feeling,that you'v done something right and you did it yourself,not from somebody else.

[sanctuary 19]

I'm sure Vit feels embarrased and bad enough now,lets just hope this lesson has been for the best,if you really want to please people Vit ya gotta make the stuff yourself,trust me I know.

It is not about making things yourself, it is more about at least crediting the people you use models or textures or scripts or ... whatever.

[xnodunitx 0]

Already said that though.

[Vit-Vit Labs 0]

Quote[/b] ]

I'm sure Vit feels embarrased and bad enough now,lets just hope this lesson has been for the best,if you really want to please people Vit ya gotta make the stuff yourself,trust me I know.

ok.. i read all this posts... and same are ture and some not..

but i must asy thanks to all the pepole thet like my addons

.. and thx for your good words...

but i cohice to STOP the work on OFP Addons

so.. all the addons on my site will stay and the site

dont update any more..

good life and maybe we meet on other game..

bye

[Martin_BM 0]

Sad news, but try in CS community. They are much more adult than OFP community

[MontyVCB 0]

Sad news, but try in CS community. They are much more adult than OFP community  

hahaha your joking right?