Mig-23

[.COMmunist 0]

Oh, hell no! Road to perfection is not easy. If me make mistakes on the way, it sould only makes us better. If you feel that you are right and people don't undestand you (for whatever reasons), don't give up. I don't know the history here, it is possible that you left couple of guys uncredited for their work, possible. Well, shit happens. If you continue making addons and give credit to those who wants it from now on, than that is all the other addonmakers really want. If you leave now only few people will be happy, but most of us, who love this game, would loose big time! Don't give up Vit. There are more of us who like you, then those who don't

[Martin_BM 0]

Sad news, but try in CS community. They are much more adult than OFP community  

hahaha your joking right?  

I thin they are making Cs skin in some kind of "open source", of course you must give proper credits .

Correct me if I 'am wrong para-trooper

Quote[/b] ]Don't give up Vit. There are more of us who like you, then those who don't

Yes, don't give up so easily

[adrenaline red 0]

IRT Supah.

You arent naive enough to think he is the only one right? And again, you do realize it is freeware right? If people make these addons and are willing to give them away to the public for free, I really dont see what the big deal is if people used their work. Personally I would be flattered if someone thought enough of my work to "steal" it. You probably dont agree, but like I said Vit already said he used others work, which was freeware, so I dont see what the big fuss is about. Especially if its from another game like people are saying.

I mean really, why is everyone having a cow?? Noone has showed up to say Vit stole there work, and if someone did come foward I am sure he would give credit to where credit is due. The "stolen" work was that of someone who hasnt even said anything. Yet the biggest critics are people who never had Vit "steal" from them.

And personally, as someone who has been a beta tester for Vit, I know that he does allot of work on his own. And I have even helped him look for textures, cockpit photos, etc. I have had the privilage to test his addons and most of the time each progressive version of the same addon are all different. Some dramatically, others not so much.

And what exactly did he steal?? If he is such a big thief you wouldnt have any problem telling us exactly what he stole right?? I have heard Vit being labeled a thief for a while now, and the only suspected instance of theft I can remember was with his Mig-29 and this helo. Someone accused him of stealing it from Seademon, but when an overhead screenshot was taken of the 2 side by side, Vits' was bigger, and noticably, different. So if you are going to be accusing people of something, the least you could do is back up these

accusations.

And for the record, Vit has given credit where it is do many a time. Just look at his AN-124 he updated, and as his beta tester I helped him get permission for the use of many addons. So this dosent really look like the actions of a thief. How would you explain him "stealing" some things, and giving credit for others?

Personally I have a theory, no offense to Vit, but because he is Israeli, his English isnt that good. I know this personally. I also know he is very busy and hard to get ahold of at times. This is relevant because a good deal of addon makers are Westerners, live far away from Israel(thus a time and language barrier). And Vit is pretty new to the OFP community forum wise. He is only starting to post here recently. So I dunno if he isnt that well informed about whats going on in the OFP community since he can be at times a hermit and very busy. Then I dont know where he gets these "stolen" things from. Probably from sites where you can dload free models, textures, etc and by importing textures, etc from other games. Add all these things up and you have a recipe for misunderstandings like this. He already said the chopper wasnt his, what more do you people want?

Apples and oranges my friend. How the hell can you compare a vehicly I bought and payed for, to freeware that is distrubuted freely to anyone??

[Martin_BM 0]

@ adrenaline red

At last someone smart

P.S Vit isn't only people with English problems on this forum

[Supah 0]

Well goodbye Vit, you could have chosen to stop taking ppls stuff and make it all yourself but you chose to easy way out. Typicall. Nobody hates you here as a person but stealing others ppl's stuff just aint cool.

IRT? Inland Reveneu Terrorists? Yeah I know those allright.

Oranges and apples? You just dont get it do you? Just because its freeware doesnt make it right to pass it of as your own. Thats still theft. Read the terms of use of some freeware programs you download.

[adrenaline red 0]

You happy now?? Do any of you people even bother going to the guys site??

http://ofp.info/vit/

On the news page it clearly says he intends to complete it (helo in question). Again, his English isnt that good, but it sounds to me that he flat out stated he was going to complete it, thus leading me to believe that he didnt start all of it.

Then on the team page it lists a number of different members. How do you know one of them didnt work on this addon?? Why does everyone automatically assume Vit is a thief?? Note that one of his members did work on the CSLA mod, and Vits Mi-8 pack, which explains the CSLA textures. SO HE DIDNT STEAL IRT THAT ADDON.

Then look at all the people he thanks and gives credit to. At least to me it dosent seem like something a thief would do.

Then on his blueprints page he posted tons of resources, models etc. He could have gotten questionable parts from any of these places.

See if you actually do some research instead of automatically labeling someone a thief, without any proof, this misunderstandings and misconceptions can be cleared up pretty easily. But noooo, it honestly seems like some people have it out for Vit for some reason.

And no dude, IRT means In Regard To.

And I am still waiting for you to back up your accusations.

And what freeware are we talking about? I thought we were talking about addons, which pretty much anyone can use for personal use and modification. And "borrowing" isnt much of a leap from that.

And again he said it wasnt all his.

[Supah 0]

This case as described above is not exeption. Vit likes to use other's work. It can be seen e.g. in case of "his" Mi-8/17 pack, which is textured by CSLA's textures without any word in readme or contacting us (at least as I know). Those textures were made by me (about 1.5 years ago), so i know them very well.

Just for the full picture.

and there it is!

But I doubt you are going to back down because you want addons and you dont really care who gets ripped off do you? I could go on further but what good will further slander do? He know's, the addon making community knows. That is good enough.

Guess what? Addons are Freeware! OMFG! Who'd have thought it?! Everyone.

[adrenaline red 0]

Back down?? Again you need to go to his site.

Mi-8/17 Pack

Team Crate

===========

Vit = code and 3d

BigDawgKS = scripts

Arika = Texture (from SKS MOD and original from CSLA)

To me it sounds as if Arika, who works with Vit, is the creator of, or was involved with the CSLA or SKS MOD textures. I may be wrong, but it looks to me as if he had the permission or rights to use those textures.

[Supah 0]

Sounds like the guy who actually made the textures for CSLA feels VERY different about it. But what does he know right?

[adrenaline red 0]

Your words not mine.

And if this guy didnt have CSLA permission, it seems to me that you guys are after the wrong person. And never even bothered to see what the deal was.

But it really dosnet matter much now does it? A little too late for that.

[offtime 0]

Arika was reworking CSLA model for SKS mod, barely colors/painting sheme.

whats realy strange is that Arika felt that after changing color of texture he owns it, and gave permisson to Vit.... LoL....

[offtime 0]

oooo btw, you guys may want to read topic in wich mi-8 pack was released :-)

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=47432

[sputnik monroe 102]

I have such mixed feelings on this. I don't think people should be using models with out permission. At the same time though I think retextures should be allowed with out permission as long as the model credits are included in the read me.

In IL2 and many other games you can simply make skins for vehicles and troops no problem at all. In Flashpoint if I were to make a 1st infantry division reskin based off some one else’s model for example and release it I would be thief even If I credited it in the readme. Example: US First Infantry division reskin by Sputnik Monroe. Model by xxxxxxx from xxx pack x www.xxx.xxx. .

The logic that would be thrown about it seems at my trial would be " If you wanted to make a first infantry division soldier you should of made it all from scratch, it's better that way." But it isn't, that just slows things down. How come we need 100 M4 models and 100 M4 textures, why not one M4 model and 100 M4 textures?

My sister plays a game called the Sims 2. Very different game than Flashpoint, but it has a gigantic mod community like Flashpoint. In the sims there are thousands of skins and probably less than a hundred models. People just release skins in a zip file with a readme that'll say, "This is my skin, model by yadda yadda". In my opinion that's how it should be in flashpoint texture wise.

Now as for base models they are a completely different animal. You should always ask permission to modify them physically. Skins though?

As for Vit in general, I'm still on the fence. I think it's all a big misunderstanding do to language barriers.

[Pathy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Back down?? Again you need to go to his site.

Do you read?

Quote[/b] ] I may be wrong, but it looks to me as if he had the permission or rights to use those textures.

Yes, your wrong.

Quote[/b] ]Your words not mine.

No, the guy who MADE THE TEXTURES WORDS:

Quote (Bobby - CSLA team @ Aug. 07 2005,13:20)

Quote[/b] ]This case as described above is not exeption. Vit likes to use other's work. It can be seen e.g. in case of "his" Mi-8/17 pack, which is textured by CSLA's textures without any word in readme or contacting us (at least as I know). Those textures were made by me (about 1.5 years ago), so i know them very well.

Just for the full picture.

If the guy who made those textures says he never gave permission, i think that proves youre wrong?

But instead, you have to carry on telling people your right.

@Sputnik

Quote[/b] ]The logic that would be thrown about it seems at my trial would be " If you wanted to make a first infantry division soldier you should of made it all from scratch, it's better that way." But it isn't, that just slows things down. How come we need 100 M4 models and 100 M4 textures, why not one M4 model and 100 M4 textures?

Not true. You ask someone for permission to reskin, they likely say yes. There. Jobs a good 'un. Takes what.....a small amount of time extra waiting for an email response with permission? People make their own models because of either pride or belief that thiers will be better.

[adrenaline red 0]

Again, you are pinning this on the wrong guy, Arika was credited with providing the textures in question, not Vit.

But it seems as if he has quit OFP so what does it matter?

Especially when all this surfaces after you guys run him off for something he didnt do.

[offtime 0]

there are guys that make addons, and guys who are just pretending to be making addons.

ofp community just lost one of those who pretend.

im starting to have doubts if there is at least one thing he made from scratch....

if he took someones model he could at least make textures, if he took textures he could at least make model...

[miles teg 1]

That's a very arrogant statement. If my mod took that stance then there would be NO LOBO mod period or it would be some tiny tiny pack with barely anything.

About 90% of our stuff is from other mods and addon makers but that is normally highly modified by us. And yes we do our best to get everyone's permission and make sure to credit everything we use from other addon makers and teams. But like Vit, we also have ran into problems on a mod team member giving us permission to use stuff and then someone else saying "You stole it" and crap like that. Also sometimes a mod team or addon maker never responds after repeated requests. Generally after we've made a real effort to contact that person, we simply just credit them in our credits. So far nobody has had any major problems with that.

Not all of us have the time or talent to make high quality textures and/or models. My team now has better texture artists and modellers so hopefully we will now have more original models and textures. But all of this stupid fuss over Vit's Mi-8 is just rediculous. I've known Vit since the beginnings of OFP and he's put up with alot of shit from the OFP community and quite frankly he DOES NOT deserve this treatment. He's good guy who's always been very polite and patient with everyone. If he's truly quit the OFP scene then I'm hope you self righteous bastards are happy at driving away one of the earliest addon makers in the OFP community.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

The Lost Brothers Mod Team

[adrenaline red 0]

Well said Miles!

For all you people who support Vit and dont want to see him leave drop him a line at his forum.

Maybe if enough people can show their support and appreciation for him, he may reconsider.

http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/vit/

[Supah 0]

Heh miles, you do your best to get permission from the original author. Thats where any comparison in the stealing area with you and VIT stops. If you cant contact a mod maker about getting permission then the answer is simple, DONT use it.

The fuss is not stupid but oh well. You want to call me selfrightious by all means do so. I have never taken anyone elses work and portrayed it as my own. As for VIT, He wasnt the first one, I have been around longer than you. I know who was the first one. Those were the people who P3d edited stuff. the guy who made a huey out of the Blackhawk. VIT wasnt one of them. He is know for stealing stuff from other addon makers in the o2 era amongst fellow addonmakers and for nothing more then that. I have a long memory, enough sources and a lot of experience. I was at this when Vipersheart was part of lost brothers and when that name still meant quality. There simply is no excuse for taking others peoples work and claiming it as your own.

[adrenaline red 0]

Ok if your memory is so good why dont you tell us what things Vit stole??

So far it seems all anyone can accuse him of is IRT his new helo, and the Mi-8 pack. And another person was responsable for the textures of the latter.

If that is it, I dont see how that would make Vit the kleptomaniac he is made out to be.

[Major Fubar 0]

Enough of this pointless bickering, I'm closing this thread. If anyone wants it reopened to add something of worth, PM a moderator.