Frustrated? Don't flame, come ova'here!

[offtime 0]

and heres my way of dealing with situation

WPS mini mod Under construction addons.

[redface 1]

It's a human thing. Most addon makers want to feel that somebody is waiting for their addon, so they put out screens. I'm more in favour of being surprised by completely new addons, concocted out of of sight.

BTW: those new smilies have a high inflamation rate as well

[Chris Death 0]

Here's an example from my own experience;

A few weeks ago i started working on some simple middle

eastern style'd walls, featuring stairs entrances etc - everything being able to walk upon it (players and ai).

OK, all was done by two days of work (note that two days

of work never means 48 hours but almost all free time available to sit in front of pc).

Well, everything looked fine - it's been almost finished, but

then i noticed that AI doesn't care about walls - they started

just to walk/run straight through, like there was never a wall.

I posted this problem (including screenies of what and how)

on some forums, but not yet could anybody give me any

advice (at least not one advice which i didn't already try)

to solve this problem.

I've been working my (body part to seat on) off, just with

changing things pbo'ing starting ofp again and again everytime

i made something new, just to find out: AI still doesn't care

about it.

This already led me to the conclusion that this project will

die before it's really being born, until i made one new object,

put it into same addon pbo and suddenly everything works

fine

Now i didn't change anything on the not working stuff (only

added another thingy to it), but AI doesn't feel invited by the

walls to rush through anymore

Does this mean i should release it now?

In my opinion: no, because i still didn't find the source of the

problem yet - and unless i find it out, i will not release anything from it, as i cannot say that this doesn't happen

under some specific circumstances again.

And the last thing i'd like to receive is: criticsm for something

that looks good but is totally useless, as it does not what it

should.

I can't imagine that any addon/modmaker is trying to keep

his work as long as possible back on his harddisk, instead

of getting praised onto highest heaven of the comunity for

opening new levels of gaming quality by releasing the missing

link of the chain. Well at least i feel like that and i see no

reason why anybody else who make addons/mods should

think different in this case.

Then there's another problem which can delay the progress;

I'm working actually on my own, so i should always know how

far i am with my addon, but as soon as two or more ppl start

work together on something, there comes one more factor

into play:

personal availability

Right now you meet your mate on web to discuss the one or

other thing which should/could be made here or there, but

then you just can't find the right time to meet together for

a few weeks - A is not available for this week, B is not for the

other one - real life hops in exactly in that time, when you think that all can be done today, or like i've seen for many ppl

that oxygen just gave up working (check out o2 troubleshooting forum here), or harddisks go fubar and

bring you back to day zero where all of your work started.

The last one is the worst one, as you almost cannot make

everything from scratch like it was before, or some new bugs

occur which were not there before and shouldn't have any

reason to come up.

At last i want say:

Don't blame ppl for posting screenshots/teasers of their work,

as nobody does this with the intension to steal regular addon

users or simple players their sleep.

This is done to get feedback in first case, like if this looks ok

and useable for the comunity in anyway or if there could be

changed something here or there (some of the changes to be

made afterwards may require lots of more work than doing it

from scratch).

Patience should be on top here, as like i already said:

noone is trying to keep things back for no reason

~S~ CD

[TwentyFourSeven 0]

Quote[/b] ]Does this mean i should release it now?

In my opinion: no, because i still didn't find the source of the

problem yet - and unless i find it out, i will not release anything from it, as i cannot say that this doesn't happen

under some specific circumstances again.

Cheers for that, a good point of the other side of fence to think about. Problem solving.  AS often there can be secrecy about addon projects its a point that I dont see being discussed.  Sure there's posting for help but never thought about a model makers interest in what makes it all tick.

Saying that as a former mission maker Im sure we suffer same problems 'PERFECTIONISM', its a disease lol.

[philcommando 0]

To Chris Death,

Slightly offtopic: regarding request for help on the addon modelling and 02 modelling sites in this forum, i am not surprise that you got no response there. I personally was told off there when responded for help a few times. They would rather listen to others who had never make or publish an addon than one who had experience the difficulties. Aint worth getting pissed, so i guess many never went there again, including me. Some guys asking for help just got too big an ego.

PS:- Going thru walls:- nothing wrong with your addon, its an ofp flaw, espacially for 1st man of a team. BIS made em invincible when encountering walls!

[wildo 0]

id rather have help from anyone. everyone than just one or two people when i make an addon, lots of opinions help

Wildo

[Chris Death 0]

To Chris Death,

Slightly offtopic: regarding request for help on the addon modelling and 02 modelling sites in this forum, i am not surprise that you got no response there. I personally was told off there when responded for help a few times. They would rather listen to others who had never make or publish an addon than one who had experience the difficulties. Aint worth getting pissed, so i guess many never went there again, including me. Some guys asking for help just got too big an ego.

PS:- Going thru walls:- nothing wrong with your addon, its an ofp flaw, espacially for 1st man of a team. BIS made em invincible when encountering walls!

Nah PC, it's not that i didn't got response over there - ppl

bravery tried to help me out - it's just that i already tried

out everything i was told before on my own - ya know like:

'must have mass' - 'compent convex hull' - 'geometric components in geo lod' - etc.

And about the ofp flaw with guys being able to walk thru walls: lol - it's not been only one - i would have been happy

if there were only one who did not It's been like: 'storm the bastie' for them.

@Wildo:

I didn't mean that it's not good to have a team and different opinions upon this - i meant it's one of the reasons why releases can take longer than expected.

24/7: Yeah i've also formerly been mission maker (especially

multiplayer ones) and i see no difference in trying to release

a working mission or addon - the only difference is: that when

making a mission and having to change something what not

work, it doesn't require to:

quit ofp - open o2 - change - save - pbo the new addon (maybe change config before) - put the newer addon into ofp - and finally restart ofp

If you must do this process over and over again, then you'll get big pain on your neck (believe me ) - and if an addon maker has to do this for about a week, it can easily happen that he gets pissed off for a while and put that project beside (we talk about delay of release here )

until he gets new motivation for some pain in the neck

And the last thing one needs when he has reached this point

is other ppl pushing for an earlier release.

~S~ CD

[SWIFT88 0]

as ive read in a few posts in comes down to these:-

VBS

Time

Beta Testing

Bugs

People leaving the community due to other people

People Leaving due to Real life

Real life itself.....

Work

Computer break downs.......

but all of you whom watch UKF know its about getting it right so im sure you want some-thing which looks and feels right incomparison to some-thing which is close

[DeLiltMon 0]

@Chris Death

How big are the components in the geo lod?

If I remember rightly theny have to be at least 0.5m thick or they are not reckognised as being there

[Chris Death 0]

@Chris Death

How big are the components in the geo lod?

If I remember rightly theny have to be at least 0.5m thick or they are not reckognised as being there  

Thx for your help, but i'm a little bit scared that this

may become some kind'a misuse of the thread's topic here.

To all who want help me solving my prob: your input is welcome ... but just follow the link at the bottom of my signature

btw - yeah DeLiltMon - they are bigger than 0.5

~S~ CD

[colonel_klink 0]

I'm probably the guiltiest here when it comes to showing work in progress . However some addons haven't been released because:

a. I haven't had time to finish them.

b. Some problem within the addon

c. I havent found all the resources I need to finish them properly (i.e. dash panels etc.

d. I lost interest in that project for what ever reason.

e. I have moved on to other projects.

f. Work commitments.

g. Family commitments.

h. pursuits other than OFP

All of the above had had some bearing as to why some projects have ground to a temporary stop. They are by no means forgotten, its simply a matter of pesonal priority. In the past I have given work to others to finish. Only the chopper (Troublemakers) was ever finished and released, so I've decided that I'll finish stuff in my own time (I still got twenty years of life left I reckon).

Whether stuff gets released for OFP, OFP2/3/4/5/6, AA /2/3/4/5 VBS1/2/3/4/5/6 is immaterial, and I think that showing work in progress is not a bad thing as it helps with feedback on the model, textures and gives encouragement  to continue.      

[BraTTy 0]

Don't forget... it was agreed while ago that showing pics of addons in progress is helpfull for other mod makers and just to know who is working on what.

Screens are not necessary however

[DBR_ONIX 0]

How about we change the direction of this topic, from whats wrong with this community, to how it can be helped..?

By that I mean realisticly.. Not "Stop asking for release dates damnit", because that wont happen, sadly

- Ben

[-)rStrangelove 0]

I think the problem is just that most mods go overboard with their announcements (expected release date,# of addons, # of islands, engine fx, # of campaigns, compatibility to other mods etc etc...) and therefore attract so many players with so high expectations that not even a company like BIS could bring such a big project to life.

My personal thoughts on errors i witnessed in the past:

- release dates not realistic (no date at all would be better)

- rediculous number of planned addons (you don't need 50 different tanks for a mod)

- rediculous model details (i don't care if a tank has 1,2 or 3 antennas, but i care for ingame lag)

- rediculous texture resolutions (you could see screws and scarfs in the side of the tank, but it adds nothing to gameplay)

- wrong LoDs (ai can see/ can shoot thru things, high lag when 3 or more addons are on screen at the same time)

- (most important thing) addons not used in campaign/missions/no missions at all (ppl concentrate too much on making a whole army, rather than what's really needed in a mission or a campaign. why make an addon that will most likely never be used ?)

My thoughts.

What i would do better ?

Well, when starting a mod first be sure what kind of conflict you're interested in. DON'T make a mod because you want to proove something to someone.

Then carefully choose what addons you'd need for a basic mod version:

- what does the average soldier looked like, and what vehicles were mostly used during that conflict ? Don't go overboard: 1 infantry style, 1 specforce style, 1 jeep, 1 truck, 1 tank, 1 apc, 1 heli, 1 plane will be enough at first.

- Don't model every detail on a tank if you want several tank platoons fighting lagfree battles ingame.

- Don't go overboard with the texture resolutions - 512x512 should be enough, ingame you don't pay attention to the texture quality when you're under fire.

- Make ai tests. Does your new watch tower/bunker block your shots ? (what is it good for then ?) Can the ai see you in there ? Can they see you when they're in there ?

- Make missions: 2 sp, 1 coop, 5 mp.

- Zip everything up and unzip it to a new addonfolder. Run it with a clean opf and without other addon-packs. Forgot any addon-dependencies ? Any folders named wrong ?

- Ship your mod, spread the release news out into the world. After you get feedback it's time to be true to yourself and decide if you still have enough motivation to carry on.

[JdB 151]

In addition: make sure you are having fun, and make sure that you can get along with the people you work with

[SWIFT88 0]

How about we change the direction of this topic, from whats wrong with this community, to how it can be helped..?

By that I mean realisticly.. Not "Stop asking for release dates damnit", because that wont happen, sadly

- Ben

offering to help people whom are new to the community and cannot progress any further......

or stubornness addon makers whom are scared that their work will find no credits of their own work....

[CanadianTerror 0]

Ive noticed there seems to be a lot of younger people lately posting the...

"releassse it doOds...I cant stand it anymore!!"

type comments.

I always say...its an age thing, not an anti mod thing. Mod makers focus on the bad comments, well I'm sorry, as long as you have kids in a forum...you get that.

[DBR_ONIX 0]

Like I've pointed out already, age doesn't have that huge an effect on maturity.. A 20 yearold can be less mature than 10 year old quite easily (If you find the right people)

Out of all the posts in varous threads, I dont recall anyone telling people to "releassse it doOds...I cant stand it anymore!!" or similar

Closes was "Can't wait " or something..

I think the best things mods can do is not say "We'll release it in 4 days, at 4:23:06 PM", but instead say "We've got this this and this to do, release in about a week". Then if it comes earlier than you said, even better

And instead of saying "When it's done", which annoys people, tell them whats still to be done, or why it's been deleayed for the last 18 months

])rStrangelove - So by your idea, FDF would consist of no more than 20 units? I hope you were exadurating, maybe more "Don't try and make more than your mod team can handle"

Just an idea, I really dont think it'll work (Shame, but.. ). Basicly have a site, that you can submit models to, then if you want to use one for your mod, you download it, if it needs tweaked, do that, include it in your mod, and then you upload your polished model back to the site..

Instead of 100 people making 100 M4A1s with ACOG Scope, with little scrach down side, they can use that model, if they need a different version of the gun, they modify the model, and upload it. (just using M4 as example )

So after a while you'd end up with lots of highly-polished models (The older ones could be voted off the site, say every month). It would stop the same damn model being made 100 times, and would lead to better models, quicker turnout rates for mods (They would still make unique mods, but how many modern mods have an M16? Them all? How many are the same model? Few..)

Don't know the feasibily of it, but it would be good if it worked

- Ben

[CanadianTerror 0]

Quote[/b] ]Like I've pointed out already, age doesn't have that huge an effect on maturity

You've pointed out an opinion...yes.

That doesnt make it a fact. You've just presented it as one.

Quote[/b] ]I dont recall anyone telling people to "releassse it doOds...I cant stand it anymore!!" or similar

Closes was "Can't wait" or something..

 You gotta be kiddin me.

If you havent seen the stuff im talking about...look closer.

CSLA2 or the Flashfx threads are FULL of recent examples of imature posting/whining about release dates by "mostly" young people. Also, Ive been around game forums enough to "see what I see"...There are piles of examples everywhere.

No, not all young people are immature...of course not.

I think game forums attract a lot of young people who have the freedom though to basically post what they are thinking at any given moment...this leads to what I'm talking about...lack of respect or any common sense when posting questions or comments.

Quote[/b] ]I think the best things mods can do is not say "We'll release it in 4 days, at 4:23:06 PM", but instead say "We've got this this and this to do, release in about a week". Then if it comes earlier than you said, even better

Are you new here? I swear you sound like you're talking about a different forum. Mods from what I see make all attempts not to give out exact dates...and they do tend to say whats left and whats delaying a release.

Does that help though? Not from what I see.

[DBR_ONIX 0]

Quote[/b] ]Does that help though? Not from what I see.

What would be the best way of doing it then?

Quote[/b] ]You've pointed out an opinion...yes.

That doesnt make it a fact. You've just presented it as one.

And

Quote[/b] ]No, not all young people are immature...of course not.

Kind of conflict a bit, no?

I dont really look much at the huge threads like CLSA2 and FFuR, randomly read bits of them, sometimes post, but most of the time I stay away from there

But where do you draw the line between enthusism/encouragment and nagging? "releassse it doOds...I cant stand it anymore!!", could be taken either as "Wow I can't wait for this mod", or "Damnnit hurry up and release it now!"

This is still going round in some form of chewed up circle, not really giving a soloution to the problem.. If there's not a soloution, this thread is even more pointless, no?

- Ben